yard.. what is a good average size?

[jfugate]

GrandFunk:

Check out this thread -- Forum clinic: Designing for satisfying operations

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25535

First thing I discuss is yard design. Basically the size of the yard is determined by the number of cars in the trains you want to run through the yard and classify in the yard.

You want your yard to be fluid enough that you can operate it without it being all clogged up with cars, so once you determine the number of cars in the trains in/out of the yard, then you design the yard to be at 60% capacity when it's considered "full". The other 40% is excess capacity that allows you to maneuver in the yard.

I discuss it all in the thread referenced above.

I also discuss curve radius in yards, and from there you can determine turnout numbers. The thing you want to watch in a yard with curves and turnouts is not making the curves so sharp that it is hard to couple cars. Coupler mismatch is worse on sharper curves.

Again, this is discussed in the thread above.

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GrandFunkRailroad

quick question.... would #4 turnouts cause any derailments?

No..I have use #4s for years and at the club we have #4s in our freight and passenger yards-train make up tracks only ..Speed is the main factor in using #4s (including crossovers) with long wheel base cars.

[CBQ_Guy]

Poke around Joe Fugate's Siskiyou Line site. He has LOTS of good layout related info there. Joe is also very agreeable with helping out people in the hobby, and in fact shows up on this Forum on occasion, too.

http://siskiyou.railfan.net/

Enjoy!

[Anonymous]

I have 86' boxcars and 85' flats going through the 10 or 12 #4 turnouts in my yard (along with numerous 6 axle diesels) with no problems. The trick is to make sure everything is very flat and smooth. Also, because it is a yard, speed is down. I used #4's because of space limitations. I would have liked to sue #6's, but we all have to compromise.

[Ibflattop]

Hey Grand Funk. Just tell those guys who run at light speed to ; " Just Slow Down, You Arnt Running 0 -27!!!!!!!!!!!!" I always do this to one of the guys in my club.
Kevin

[streettrains]

I don't really want to comment on the going fast through the yard thing.... seen 1 or 2 guys in the club I am in do it.. since they have been in the club alot longer than I have.. I keep my mouth shut.... they can't seem to figure why the train derails....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GrandFunkRailroad

quick question.... would #4 turnouts cause any derailments?

Shouldn't if you're using 50' or less freight cars; might cause a problem with longer passenger equipment, especially on #4 crossovers. Also, remember that trains don't move very fast in yards, so the slow speed helps prevent derailments on the tighter switches.

[BRAKIE]

IMHO a yard should fit the layout. On a 4'x8' I would say a 3 track yard would suffice with one yard track open at both ends as a locomotive escape.

Now..MY ideal yard would be at least 7 tracks including caboose track and of course as a companion to my yard I would have a 2-3 track engine service area with a two stall engine house..

[streettrains]

quick question.... would #4 turnouts cause any derailments?

[Bikerdad]

Good average size? Any physical dimensions we might suggest are only meaningful if our suggestion is based on the same scale as you're working in. What scale is that? A 2x4 yard might work out for an N scale layout, do you think it will be as satisfactory for an O scale? Same thing on the other end of the spectrum. If a 6x20 yard is good for O, might it be overkill for N?

Even the era and nature of the road you're modelling is going to impact the size. An "average" 1900 passenger yard in a medium city is going to be a lot different than an average 2000 intermodal yard at a major port.

The best advice is going to either take these factors into account, or give you recommendations based on "car lengths", which is the only operational factor that really matters.

btw, I can't give that advice, but hopefully others will ...

[Anonymous]

The best size for a yard is 2' longer than the one you've got! [;)]

Mine is a simple 3-track stub about 6' long. I'd give my (..er...nevermind) for another 18"...

-dave

[dwRavenstar]

Good yard is big enough the pooch can get a run but not get out of earshot.

Building a dual level shelf type with helix and fiddle yards at each end of the run. Laying out six tracks in each yard both about six feet long. Lower level yard has the drawer out in the open and six three foot tracks running in under the helix. My main line runs above the yard and industry level on the lower shelf and below that level on the top shelf. I went with the fiddle yard concept to maximize use of space while limiting cost and maintenance of a switching ladder. When the collection becomes large enough to begin clogging yard operations I plan to build several track cassettes that can hold "off site" trains. In concept I figure three of these could be placed on each level of a multi-level track and arms metal shelving unit. With four "shelves" like that the yard can be expanded to an additional 36 feet of storage track using only three foot cassettes.

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[DigitalGriffin]

Tom's on the money with the Yard Layout and design book.

Here's what I learned out after looking at NUMEROUS layouts and designs:
A lot of people are fixed on the idea that a yard has to have an A/D track. And if you have 3 main lines this means 3 crossover tracks on each end to get to the A/D which can be quite lenghtly. Then you have to add a drill track which will be as long as 2 engines + longest yard track.

Then I realized there is a simpler solution for really small yards next to industry. An A/D track that does NOT have terminals at entry exit point at both ends. I've seen AD tracks that are a small junction off the main line with one entry/exit point. This is a real space saver in an L shaped configuration.

I've seen this design used 3 times for different layouts. Two were shelf layouts where one side was a 3 track yard, and the other side was tracks for industries. (For example, a power plant setup would use a small yard for coal cars.)

Some people are really clever with their layout ideas. You might want to try the track and layout forum also.

~Don

[AggroJones]

My yard is 6" x 60" . It only functions to hold freight cars and have them visable on the layout.

[tomwatkins]

Kalmbach's new book on freight yards by Andy Sperandeo is very good. It includes some ways to compress the ladder and add length to the classification tracks without sacrifcing functionability.
Have Fun,
Tom Watkins

[Anonymous]

The biggest controlling issue is the ladder. You might be able to put 10 tracks in 30" wide benchwork, but the ladder for it would be ten feet long (#4 turnouts on 2.5" track centers).

[streettrains]

all this advice is great!!!! has always helped me out... hope to post pics of my work in progress soon...

[streettrains]

Wellthe biggest part of my layout is about 23 feet.. & I was thinking way back about a big yard.. but then that doesn't leave much else for the layout,,,

I saw a good yard at the SPringfield, Mass show.. think it was the Dry Hill CLub.. nice yard, and an engine facility... I do have a pic of it to go by...

I might have to build it on a slight angle/curve though...

[Anonymous]

I'm really happy to see this...I was getting worried that my 13' yard would be too small. Seriously. I was already eyeing another room and considering revamping my plans so that I could build my yard along a 24' section of wall...yikes.

I still probably will, but that's down the road and in another town...I'll be a lot happier with my original plans now, I was worried that people would laugh at me for having a yard I considered so "small" after spending a lot of time observing the local prototype.

[jrbernier]

Depends on what you are going to use the yard for. Here are some possible things to think about:

o - car storage. Are you going to just park all of your rolling stock there? Then you need
to think about how many cars you have and figure in some 'growth''.

o - Classification of freight cars for operation. Then you will need at least one long track
for arrival/departure, and several smaller ones for classification.

o - Staging tracks. These hold entire trains 'off stage'.

I have 2 of the above. I have a 6 track staging yard(double ended) that can hold at
least a 10 car train with 2 engines and a caboose. I have a 4 track classification yard where the through freights make pickups/setouts for the local way freights that work out of the yard. This yard has 4 tracks that can hold from 8-12 cars on each of the tracks, and all are of the 'double ended' type. A complete train can be 'yarded' off of the main line. this yard also has a switching lead that ends with a small engine terminal. It is a small terminal on a secondary line not does not have a dedicated arrival/departure track. My classification yard is about 15' feet long by 2.5' wide. This allows for the 4 yard tracks, mainline, and a 'house' track behind the depot. The yard lead follows a curve in the mainline and the engine terminal is tucked in the curve. BTW, this is HO scale.

Jim Bernier

[northern_blues]

I'm hoping for 2' X 4' or 5' on an 8X16 double dog-bone (really shaped like a "C" with the hooks pointing down. I'm also going to try and squeeze it into an area that is curved *and* has an overpass

-dave

[Anonymous]

Thanks for asking the question grandfunkrailroad. I am starting on my own layout which will be 4'x10'. My club has 2 yards on its layout, but then theirs is quite large. Since I run mostly coal and freight with a N&W Class A, I will want as much yard as possible. I will be allowed this because I will have a 2 tiered layout. While I planned on a sizeable yard your question has given my yard more relevance. I will give it plenty of thought before I start construction. Biggie Smalls response is on the money.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Biggie Smalls

I think that the answer will vary on peoples opinions and layout by alot. A yard that is a good size is like 3' x 6' but mine is not that big. I wish I had more room. I am sure that everyone who has a yard wants more room too.

[simon1966]

How long are the passing sidings in the rest of the layout? Since the sidings dictate your max train length, your yard should be able to accomodate the construction of a similar length train.

[Anonymous]

I think that the answer will vary on peoples opinions and layout by alot. A yard that is a good size is like 3' x 6' but mine is not that big. I wish I had more room. I am sure that everyone who has a yard wants more room too.

[streettrains]

I am looking for some advice... I want a good yard.. but not one that is going to overt ake the layout.... I don't want to have an overkill.. but then again I don't want to be too small...

any advice on how big an average yard would be.. length? tracks?