Ebay Waning... Beware

[Anonymous]

I would have to say that the problem was not Ebay, but rather either the seller's misrepresentation, or by your misinterpretation. In any instance of a used product, be aware that it is a USED product and will have flaws most of the time. Even Rolls-Royces get scratches and dents and are subject to abusive owners.

I personnally would not even consider used track, nor will I try to sell my current track when my layout gets demolished and replaced. I may give the track away free, but I know it has problems.

I know hindsight is always 20/20, but hopefully we can all learn something from your mistake. One is to ask questions of the seller! No answer, no bid! Really simple.

Number two is to carefully check the seller's feedback, not just the percentage, but the comments from BUYERS. This will give you some better idea of who you are dealing with. Just because the Feedback is 100% perfect, maybe he has never sold anything before!

Just my 2 cents.......

[dwRavenstar]

Antonio:

I think it's HOBBY CIRCLE'S attempt to get folks away from Internet dealing and back into the aisles of the LHS. Accepting that as the premise I'd have to admit I have as much admiration for his intentions as I have derision for his business practices.

I feel like I ducked a bullet. He also had a 12 pack of hoppers that had caught my eye. Gawd, the neighbors would have had a fit when they saw a package being delivered from a stretch limo instead of the USPS truck.

Dave

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dwRavenstar

Follow up on the HOBBY CIRCLE question:
He has a Tech-4 powerpack offered and lists shipping as $8.00.
I've recently purchased another Tech-4 from another seller and the actual shipping cost was indeed $8.00.
I wrote to HOBBY CIRCLE and asked what the actual shipping and time would be for the item.......... would be $25.00 and time would be 3-4 weeks.......................

Dave Wyland (dwRavenstar)

$25 ?!!!!!!!!! Wow! Was the box they were shipping in sprayed with Halston cologne! Would still be a pretty "stinky" deal! [(-D][(-D][D)]

[darkstar974]

I really don't do ebay I like to see what i am getting in person and worried about getting burned

Dark

[Anonymous]

**shakes head.

We are capable of diplomatic writing and careful use of wording to convey the exact meanings regarding issues and problems on the forums. Yet we reserve the salvo of the really messy stuff for just the offending party.

How interesting.

[dwRavenstar]

Follow up on the HOBBY CIRCLE question:
He has a Tech-4 powerpack offered and lists shipping as $8.00.
I've recently purchased another Tech-4 from another seller and the actual shipping cost was indeed $8.00.
I wrote to HOBBY CIRCLE and asked what the actual shipping and time would be for the item.
The reply was that shipping would be $25.00 and time would be 3-4 weeks.
In very precise (2 syllable) terms I told HOBBY CIRCLE that the misrepresentation of the shipping costs was likened to the waste product droppings of a male steer.
Personally, I intend to avoid HOBBY CIRCLE with the same diligence I employ when avoiding a screwdriver and wrench root canal.

Dave Wyland (dwRavenstar)

[AntonioFP45]

Hello GrayLoess,

No need to call me sir.

I respect your view, but again my point is if the seller delivers the item in good or bad condition, we should post feedback anyway. The purpose, again to let others know that "this seller delivered as promised" or "this seller bombed! Be warned!" That's it! Clear and Simple.

If the seller is withholding feedback, that is wrong but why do the old "Tet for Tat"?
(Oh Well! He's not leaving me feedback so I won't leave him any because he may retaliate!)


I've won 2 items from reputable sellers and THEY DID NOT post positive feedback for me! Yet I went ahead and posted good feedback for them as the locomotives I received were well packed and ran well. After a few weeks I sent them both an email requesting feedback. They finally did. I was about to post bad feedback for a seller I won a bid from, but he made an effort and sent me additional items I wanted.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts and I may be wrong on some points. I think most of us might agree that we should definetly ask sellers questions on items we're interested in and carefully check their feedback records.

As someone mentioned, EBay is a "Flea Market". We pretty much know that flea markets are a wheeling and dealing atmosphere.

Peace!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45[/i]
But guys, be aware that a seller can't leave negative feedback on YOUR record. He can only leave it in response to "HIS FEEDBACK". Your Ebay File won't be affected!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but this is NOT correct! BOTH the seller and buyer can leave any kind of feedback. BOTH can respond to each other's feedback.

If a buyer craps all over a seller, the sellers usually post their own retaliatory feedback on the buyer's ID. Then the buyer can post a response to the feedback on his own ID.

One buyer won two of my auctions for non model railroad items. Never heard a word from him at all. So I sent him a note stating that I would post a negative feedback on his ID if he did not respond - this was about three weeks after the auctions ended. So what does he do? He posts a negative feedback on my ID stating that I had threatened him! I did threaten him - with a negative feedback. So he was just a slimeball. Not too long later I noted that he was no longer on eBay. But his false negative still is on my ID.

I re-listed the two items he reneged on and sold them for much more than his winning bids, so I actually came out on top in this instance.

Bob Boudreau

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45Guys, I'm sorry to offend some of you for saying this, but some of you seem to be a little on the "Selfish Side".

(1) Not giving feedback until the seller gives it, even after you received the item? That's paranoid! PLEASE! Give feedback when you receive the item regardless of condition and be honest about it! Do try and settle first if there is a legitimate problem! If all goes well keep it positive. But guys, be aware that a seller can't leave negative feedback on YOUR record. He can only leave it in response to "HIS FEEDBACK". Your Ebay File won't be affected!!!!!!!!

Some of us criticize the feedback system, but it does work reasonably well. By not using it, you are defeating one of Ebay's most important features. By denying justifiable negative feedback, our modelers may get "raked" if they are not warned!!]

HUH?

Excuse me, but it is the seller not leaving feedback upon receiving prompt payment who is the one who is abusing the eBay feedback system as it was designed, not me.

Sellers withholding feedback in that manner for no other reason than to reserve the chance to give retalitory negative feedback and flame the buyer (who lived up to his part of the bargain) are the ones who are selfish and paranoid, sir.

[dwRavenstar]

Thanks Dave [:I]

[davekelly]

Dave,

There is alot of truth in what you wrote! (and a lot of humor).

[Don Gibson]

STEVERENO;

Send a polite but factual LETTER to the British seller tulling him (1) what you wanted, (2) what you got, and (3) how you would like it resolved.

Also send copy to PECO.

My guess is the seller will be embarassed and motivated to 'correct' things if he is in the business. If he is a private party - like yourself - yoi may have to learn to isolate the frogs.

Anyhow, it can't hurt.

[vsmith]

I am going to be putting a large Lot of Lionel 0-27 track and stuff I picked up at an estate sale onto ebay, I'm going to be very descriptive of it with pics and not ask a high starting bid. I find its better to tell the buyer what they are getting and keep the starting bid fair. Otherwise you get situations like this described and unhappy bidders and negative feedback. Anyway just my[2c]

[dwRavenstar]

Pav,

Thanks for the heads up but it can't pertain to Ebay as a whole.

My nephew bought a car and a month later the engine blew.
(Don't buy a car.... beware!)

A friend's aunt had an operation and died within six weeks.
(Watch out, don't have surgery!)

I've been widowed, divorced and am currently very happily married (all true!).
(Be careful, some women aren't worth the time it takes to signal for a cold beer!)

The percentages say cars are good, surgery saves lives, women are just people as are men and Ebay can be either a source of fantastic bargains or a pain in the posterior. Just do your homework and don't expect to get through the combine untouched every time. I've been dealing on Ebay since the first of the year (the mail lady brings me a package nearly every day) and I've yet to have even the whiff of a complaint. Sorry your tale is so different but it's hardly grounds to slam the entire system.

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[steveblackledge]

AntonioFP45,,, i almost bought from HOBBY CIRCLE myself but after reading the neg feedback i didn't bother.
Pavariangoo,
i have just bought some track from a british seller and he either did not know the difference between electrofrog and insulfrog or he was just trying to palm somebody off with some electrofrog switches he did not want, they were advertised as insulfrog but when i got them they were cruddy and bent and to make matters worse they were electrofrog, which i don't use

[Anonymous]

I'm unsure if everyone is taking me to task over what I said, or what someone else said. Attempting to simplify: I have used ebay fairly regularly and have basically had good luck with it. There were three times a dispute could not be resolved via communication with the buyer or seller and I left negative feed back. In all three instances, the opposite party then left negative for me! I stated it is best to try to resolve the issues first, before leaving negative feed back! Although twice I have literally been ripped off by some unscrupulous ebayers, I am not scared of using the service and will continue to do so. I leave feed back when my end of the dealings has been completed. I don't wait to see what the other guy is going to do.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

C'mon guys, 500 transactions with ebay? the shipping alone could feed small countries, when did they start selling groceries or beer on ebay? these figures are astronomical, I think my total is SIX (6)--no problems.

My eBay feedback is 313, out of around 360 transactions - mulitple winners can only post once, and many buyers don't bother to post feedback. I imagine m actual total is around 500 too. I've been mostly a seller, having only bought about half a dozen items. Most of the items I've sold have been model railroad and photo items that I've accumulated over the years. I've also auctioned off things for friends in this total, have been doing it since 1999.

So 500 eBay transactions is not far fetched.

Bob Boudreau

[Don Gibson]

PROBLEM is seller's appraisal vs, buyer's.

E BAY is a 'flea market'. Expect some flea bite's.

[davekelly]

tatans,

Well 500 transactions over the last six years. I once bought 100 LED's. That consisted of 10 transactions as each transaction was for 10. Same thing with turnouts. Bought 6 from the same seller, six different transactions. My 20 Athearn trailers were 20 separate transactions. Getting two Italian charm bracelets for my fiance was 38 separate transactions from about 20 different sellers (didn't do that bad - each charm was about $2.00 and shipping was never more than $1.00 - check out the prices at the mall). I don't really figure shipping separate - I just calculate it into what I want my bid to be. The way I see it, the money I saved over these transactions could feed a small country lol. (ever check out the prices of LED's at Radio Shack?).

[tatans]

C'mon guys, 500 transactions with ebay? the shipping alone could feed small countries, when did they start selling groceries or beer on ebay? these figures are astronomical, I think my total is SIX (6)--no problems.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

GrayLoess,

I mostly agree with your position on leaving feedback. There are times however, that I have no problem leaving feedback first. I review the feedback of every seller I deal with. I don't really focus on the percentage, but rather look up the specific feedback left that are negative. There was a seller that had a couple negatives. In checking them out I tried so hard not to laugh. The seller was dinged for slow shipping (feedback was left 4 days after the auction closed) and for shipping UPS when USPS would have been cheaper (the listing specifically said that UPS would be used).

Good Point! One of the dealers that I've won bids with is Model Trains Stuff. I checked the few negative feedbacks, and they were laughable! This company so far, delivered my items in good condition.

Guys, I'm sorry to offend some of you for saying this, but some of you seem to be a little on the "Selfish Side".

(1) Not giving feedback until the seller gives it, even after you received the item? That's paranoid! PLEASE! Give feedback when you receive the item regardless of condition and be honest about it! Do try and settle first if there is a legitimate problem! If all goes well keep it positive. But guys, be aware that a seller can't leave negative feedback on YOUR record. He can only leave it in response to "HIS FEEDBACK". Your Ebay File won't be affected!!!!!!!!

Some of us criticize the feedback system, but it does work reasonably well. By not using it, you are defeating one of Ebay's most important features. By denying justifiable negative feedback, our modelers may get "raked" if they are not warned!!

A Great Example of feedback working: Last year I became excited when I saw a new Atlas SCL U36C up for bid. These are no longer produced. I checked the feedback and there were a bunch of negatives. The seller: HOBBY CIRCLE! Sound familiar? Notorious hobbyshop for bad service! So the feedback was a big help to me.

Please consider this.

Peace![;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by leighant

quoting KenLarsen: "I look for some hint of feedback history about the seller. No history - no sale."

That does sound like a careful approach. But does it mean one should never buy from someone trying to sell off a few surplus items or dispose of an estate, because that seller hasn't been a seller before.
Sounds like the merchant who won't take a check unless it is numbered over 100, so all the check printers start their numbering somewhere other than at the beginning...

I start my checks at 1500. Only to be confronted by large peices of papers tacked to the wall with tens of names written in magic markers and titled "DONT TAKE CHECKS" and the whole town can read that sign and understand who has had a problem with checks in that grocery store.

I for one dont ever want to be on that list.

I enjoy estate sales because some one has passed on after carefully collecting for 30 years or whatever and sometimes there is a gem to be bought. I think I have several sales from the spouse who knew nothing about trains or knew anything about the stuff that goes on in Ebay.

Ebay is a good venue but only if the Buyer, Seller and Product is worthy of investment of focus towards a problem free transactions. I use it for out of production items.

If ebay became really bad? I would have no problems junking it and visiting trainshows. And I think ebay is aware of that and are interested in dispute resolutions, problem solving and live assistance to help close auctions and move a stalled process forward.

[davekelly]

GrayLoess,

I mostly agree with your position on leaving feedback. There are times however, that I have no problem leaving feedback first. I review the feedback of every seller I deal with. I don't really focus on the percentage, but rather look up the specific feedback left that are negative. There was a seller that had a couple negatives. In checking them out I tried so hard not to laugh. The seller was dinged for slow shipping (feedback was left 4 days after the auction closed) and for shipping UPS when USPS would have been cheaper (the listing specifically said that UPS would be used).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DeSchane

While I agree with most all of what AntonioFP45 says, if your dealing with an
unscrupulous seller, he will likely fire back retaliatory bad feed back at you for burning
him! This fact makes this portion of Ebay’s feed back forum less useful as a method of
controlling bad sellers and buyers than people think. Every time I have given bad feed
back, I have received it in return! It is best to attempt some sort of settlement, first. If all
else fails, then your faced with going ahead and giving bad feed back.

I agree, the eBay Feedback system as it actually is used leaves a lot ot be desired.

My personal policy is this: I leave no feedback for any seller who doesn't leave it for me first.

If I paid in full and on time in the manner requested, then I feel I've fulfilled my obligation as a buyer and should receive feedback at that time. Sellers that hold their feedback response in reserve just so they can retaliate against any negative feedback, get no feedback from me, even if I was going to leave them glowingly positive feedback.

[davekelly]

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience. I've had over 500 transactions on E-bay and only one bad experience.

[leighant]

quoting KenLarsen: "I look for some hint of feedback history about the seller. No history - no sale."

That does sound like a careful approach. But does it mean one should never buy from someone trying to sell off a few surplus items or dispose of an estate, because that seller hasn't been a seller before.
Sounds like the merchant who won't take a check unless it is numbered over 100, so all the check printers start their numbering somewhere other than at the beginning...

[Javern]

I've had over 400 transactions on Ebay and perhaps only 2 or 3 bad experiences. One being the item was packaged poorly thus damaged in transit. I contaced the seller and explained and they offered my money back. I feel it is a good idea to contact the other party in a nice way and see what they say, there are those that are quick to leave bad feedback and then you will get a negative feedback even though you paid quickly and held up your end of the deal. Overall i find Ebay a great place to buy and sell.

[simon1966]

Contact the seller first, if he is a decent seller, and most of them are, he will offer some sort of solution. If not, then go ahead and leave the feedback. You can also use the e-bay dispute service.

[Anonymous]

The only items I will ever buy thru eBay are out-of-production items that cannot be found at my LHS or any major online retail outlets (Walthers, Caboose Hobbies, MBKlein, etc.). Even then, I look for some hint of feedback history about the seller. No history - no sale.

This approach has served me well so far...