BLI Cab Forward on 18" radius?

[Jetrock]

Now that irks me--I moved downtown because I WANTED to hear trains! It's kind of like the folks who move out to the foothills in farm country, and then complain because they don't like the smell of cows.

Although train-phobia doesn't begin at the Placer County Line...the city of West Sacramento is going to tear up the old Sacramento Northern mainline south of the Port of Sacramento, and their former mayor compared the track near the riverfront to the Berlin Wall. I suppose for some reason yuppies just don't get the connection between railroads, industry and JOBS...

Personally, I was hoping that the old SN tracks could be preserved and used for something really cool, like a "Clarksburg Wine Train" tourist line--I missed the "Last Train to Clarksburg" in '99 and would love to give those rails a ride!

[twhite]

Jetrock--MY favorite is all of the people who are now moving to Roseville and complaining about the noise the trains make. And then they look at you strangely when you explain that historically, Roseville wouldn't exist for them to move to now if it HADN'T been for the trains in the first place! Oh well---
Tom [:-,]

[Jetrock]

That was something I noticed about the turntable at the old Sacramento shops--it wasn't big enough to turn a cab-forward!

You've seen the Roseville Carnegie library/museum's Roseville Yard layout, right? Quite impressive and worth the trip...

Don Gibson: Not a bad analogy...kind of like those folks who live and work in big cities and buy a giant SUV, and then complain because it's so hard to park it!

[twhite]

Jetrock--actually 'cab-forward' country began at Roseville, and when they were running, Carmichael was just a ranch in the boondocks. However, during WWII and Korea, cab-forwards could be seen almost anywhere in California, even between Sacramento and Oakland. the main reason they lasted so long between Roseville and Sparks is that early cab diesels had trouble 'breathing' in the abrupt elevation changes on the Hill (7000' in 82 miles). SP was pretty frugal about their locomotives, they ran the very last miles out of their steam between 1953-56, and you could almost find anything anywhere, cab-forwards included.
Tom

[Don Gibson]

BUYING that large an engine to run on 18"R curves is like someone buying one of those 50's - 60's Cadillac's so long that one can't get the garage door down - and to think about it - probably for the same reasons.

[Jetrock]

Carmichael isn't exactly "cab-forward country", it's quite flat out there, despite what Central Pacific told the government auditors, who told them that everything east of Arcade Creek was "mountainous country" and thus paid the higher mountain rate for railroad construction.

I suppose they did run around between Sacramento and Roseville, where they were serviced, but they weren't exactly needed to pull grades at those elevations.

prompter: Okay, so you're no newcomer to the hobby--but things like running articulateds on 18" are a fairly newcomer-oriented question. Nobody is demanding that you build a 20'x40' layout. But you did solicit opinions, and opinions were given.

Me, I just like small locomotives. That's why I have 12" radius curves on my layout, although there is a distinct lack of articulateds.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by prompter

The responses to my question have been interesting. First, let me say that last night my new BLI AC-4 was very able to negotiate 18" radius (slowly) with a surprisingly limited overhang. It is truely an impressive locomotive. I suspect it looked as a real AC-4 might have looked negotiating through a temporary shoo-fly around the site of a derailment.

Secondly, I should mention that my use of 18" radius doesn't mean that I'm a beginner, as seem to be implied above. In fact, I've been in the hobby for more than 40 years. Given the space, I would love to build a 20'x40' layout. But reality comes to all of us at some point, and in a retirement home space limitations are a sad reality.

And finally, as many of the fine editors at MR have pointed out over the years, this is a hobby. Each of us finds our own form of enjoyment -- within the bounds of what's possible -- and fo me, watching a fine piece of machinery that brings back memories of my life is as good as it gets!

Oh, one last thought. That AC-4 will only be on the 18" radius when it has to take the siding to allow the Big Boy to pass. (Just joking!!!)

Prompter

You said it prompter![:D][^] I used to get nagged on for running Big Boys, Challengers, and Northerns on my 5x9 layout, but did that stop me? No way! If I can run a 4-8-8-4 around an 18" radius, no doubt a 4-8-8-2 will do it.

[prompter]

"when I was a kid I got to ride in the cab of an AC-6 over Donner Summit."

I'm green with envy, Tom. Re: radius, yes, mainline will be 22" with easements, passing sidings 18". Just finished more negotiations over lunch, armed with a pictire of Walthers' new 130' turntable -- she loves the hobby as much as I, and is starting to concedeon the idea of the entire 9x11 bedroom. I think that's because she wants to be able to run her first train purchase several years ago -- the complete 1938 COSF in brass!

[twhite]

Definitely cab-forward country--I grew up around Truckee, CA and grew up with cab-forwards. My great-uncle was a brakeman on the Truckee-Norden helper run, so when I was a kid I got to ride in the cab of an AC-6 over Donner Summit. I don't think I realized that other railroads ran their articulateds with the cab in BACK until I was about 12, LOL! You said you were negotiating for a 9x11? Not to beat a dead horse, but do you think you could squeeze in a 22" radius? Just wondering. Let me know how the negotiations pan out, will you? I'd be interested.
Best,
Tom[:D]

[prompter]

My new layout exists only on paper so far. I've negotiated one end of a 9'6"x11'4" bedroom (still in intense negotiation over exactly how deep that one end will be). Probability (hope) is that the layout wil be a modified L shape 9'6" x 8'.

I'm is San Jose, note you're in Carmichael. That sounds like Cab-forward country...

[twhite]

Prompter--Sorry, I didn't know the circumstances (I should have asked). Glad your AC is taking the curves (slowly). Just curious, how big is the layout?
Tom

[prompter]

The responses to my question have been interesting. First, let me say that last night my new BLI AC-4 was very able to negotiate 18" radius (slowly) with a surprisingly limited overhang. It is truely an impressive locomotive. I suspect it looked as a real AC-4 might have looked negotiating through a temporary shoo-fly around the site of a derailment.

Secondly, I should mention that my use of 18" radius doesn't mean that I'm a beginner, as seem to be implied above. In fact, I've been in the hobby for more than 40 years. Given the space, I would love to build a 20'x40' layout. But reality comes to all of us at some point, and in a retirement home space limitations are a sad reality.

And finally, as many of the fine editors at MR have pointed out over the years, this is a hobby. Each of us finds our own form of enjoyment -- within the bounds of what's possible -- and fo me, watching a fine piece of machinery that brings back memories of my life is as good as it gets!

Oh, one last thought. That AC-4 will only be on the 18" radius when it has to take the siding to allow the Big Boy to pass. (Just joking!!!)

Prompter

[twhite]

My curves are just double yours (34-36") and the AC-5 looks JUST comfortable on them. I have some brass articulateds (single articulation) that have a fearful overhang even on 34" radius--I have to be very careful about double-track curve spacing--so I really agree with the other people on this thread about building wider radius curves (even though I said in my first post that you could, but be careful). If you're going to run big steam power, you're really going to have to think seriously about wider radius. 22" at the VERY minimum, preferably 24-30" for best operation. I know a lot of these newer steam locos are advertised for tight radii, but that's only going to start putting undue stress on the motor, leading and/or trailing trucks. I think if you invest in wider radii, you're going to be a lot happier with the operation in the long run (and so will your steamers.).
Tom

[AggroJones]

Gibson is right. Try to add a few more inches to your width to accomidate slighly wider curves.

[Don Gibson]

INSTEAD of forcing a huge locomotive on a beginner's layout , WHY don't you build sone larger curves?. Too tough? Add a 6"X 8' board to one side if your layout..
Already manucturers are cheating on wheel dimesions figuring that beginner's won't know the difference.,,, .OR won't care. It's like fishing for Whales in a row boat.

If you're rich enough for a $400 engine (I have no problem with that) you should also be smart enough to build larger curves,. Adding just 6" allows 28" r. curves,.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

Try double heading smaller engines like 2-8-0's you may actually pull more train than one articulated around that 18" er

Double 2-8-0s = Articulated Consolidation. [:)]

[Anonymous]

Try double heading smaller engines like 2-8-0's you may actually pull more train than one articulated around that 18" er

[AggroJones]

I wouldn't recommend it. I'm scared to even send it around 22". It is a large locomotive. 18" radius may stress the hell out of it.

[Jetrock]

This gets into the matter of aesthetics--just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.

[Anonymous]

I have a 1962 Akane AC-9 that will slowly negotiate an 18" curve with much complaining, and it's only a single articulated. 22" is no problem at all for it. I can't imagine the double-articulated BLI will be any more stringent. It will look REALLY strange on 18", and you'll have to run really slow, and it will likely smack into all kinds of scenery since it'll swing outside he F-plate NMRA guage, but if it floats your boat...

-dave

[prompter]

I agree on the desirability of BIG radius curves. But I have a choice of 22" mainline and 18" radius branchline/passing tracks - or no layout. And I'm too much a fan of SP not to have a cab forward. I have a brass F/P AC-7 that I'm going to have to sell because no way will it work given my restrictions. So the BLI is a good option for me.

[canazar]

Prompter.

I have a BLI CabFoward, the engine will take the 18" curve, but as the folks advised above, slowly is the best. Other wise, the front trucks under the cab are usally the first to pop off and the drag outside the rail.

I have found by accidedent when I left a switch open and before I knew my CF came around and went down an industrail siding that winds its way through a 16/17" radius turn. I caught just in time to clear the tight spot and keep on going back on the mian line. I was pretty amazaed.

Good luck,
John k

[Jetrock]

Indeed--if you're going to run big engines, give your layout bigger curves! It's perfectly fine to have super-sharp curves on one's layout, as long as one is willing to appreciate the smaller locomotives that can handle those curves.

Another benefit of point-to-point shelf layouts: being able to run any locomotive you want, because you don't have any curves at all!

[orsonroy]

Big locomotices require big layouts. Period. While the manufacturers generally make the bad decision to screw with the engine's mechanism to make them run on tight curves, the engines neither like the curves nor look good negociating them. And they'll generally only pull VERY short cars around those curves, if they can pull any at all.

You're better off either buying one for display purposes only, or rebuilding your layout with larger curves. Or switch to N scale.

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by prompter

Has anyone tried the BLI cab forward on 18" radius? BLI's web site recommends 22" radius... but I can hope, can't I ???

Prompter

While I've done some wild things in the hobby [:0] I sure don't recommend a cab-forward on 18" curves..I would go with the recommended 22" curves.
Personally,I would want nothing less then say a 24" or 26" curve for that long wheel base locomotive.

[twhite]

It'll do it, but VERY slowly! And if you're using sectional track, make SURE that the sections are really in line! Otherwise, you're going to have Cab-forward all over the place. I really don't reccommend it, but with the double articulation that BLI has built into the steamer, it should be okay, without too much stress on the motor. But be CAREFUL!
Tom

[prompter]

Has anyone tried the BLI cab forward on 18" radius? BLI's web site recommends 22" radius... but I can hope, can't I ???

Prompter