Which is cheaper?

[Favrefan04]

I have been looking for the locos that I want online, and I have found them in two different ways, with sound and without sound. I was hoping that those of you out there that has already put sound into their locos could help me. Is it more cost effective to buy them without sound and put it in myself, or to go ahead and get it with sound? I haven't checked to see what it would cost to get the soundtraxx decoder and the speaker yet. The locos that I found were going for right around $200. Is that too much for say a SD40-2 with sound? The manufacturer is BLI, which other than what I have seen a little on here I know nothing about. Is that a good buy, or should I try to find one without and put the sound in myself? I am not affraid of any of the wiring, as I am an electronics repairman for the military. So that part won't be too much of a problem.

Thanks in advance for all your replies and input.
Gary

[simon1966]

Gary, I have made a similar evaluation regarding E7's. When BLI first came out with the sound equipped units, I compared their price with installing a Soundtraxx unit into one of my exisiting P2000 units. The total cost was about the same for either solution. Then some of the BLI dealers dropped the price of the sound equipped unit and I was able to pick one up for about $100.00. A no brainer. However, I think I am going to go the soundtraxx route with one of my Protos

[Anonymous]

I'm almost certain this "option" will not meet with most M.R.'s approval. Having said that, I placed inexpensive stereo speakers (hand made enclosures) at various locations around the layout. The speaker wire (18 ga.) runs through a "feeder tube" from the den (amp and tape deck) to the garage (speakers). The recording (cassette) is of various diesel, steam, passenger station, et al., sounds. My layout is a "city scape," and the focal point is "Union Station" so the sounds are apporpriate. I know there is nothing like "on board" coordinated sounds. My method is not for everyone but thought someone might "tune in" that might be interested. Good luck.

[davekelly]

Ted,

Not meet with approval? Does your way of doing sound make you happy? Put a smile on your face? If you answer yes - then it has my strongest approval!!!

[Anonymous]

Dave Kelly you are a person wise beyond your years, no matter how old you may be.

[Anonymous]

It is so refreshing to have people agree that what makes someone happy is a good thing, whether you would do it that way or not. Far too often people are ready to condemn an idea because it isn't the most elaborate, expensive, or cutting edge idea. I have been thinking of doing exactly the same thing you did, Ted. I would like sound for each loco, but I am not ready to spend that kind of money. It may not be high-tech, but it is probably high-enjoyment!!

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ted D. Kramer

I'm almost certain this "option" will not meet with most M.R.'s approval. Having said that, I placed inexpensive stereo speakers (hand made enclosures) at various locations around the layout. The speaker wire (18 ga.) runs through a "feeder tube" from the den (amp and tape deck) to the garage (speakers). The recording (cassette) is of various diesel, steam, passenger station, et al., sounds. My layout is a "city scape," and the focal point is "Union Station" so the sounds are apporpriate. I know there is nothing like "on board" coordinated sounds. My method is not for everyone but thought someone might "tune in" that might be interested. Good luck.

MRC has some products that do this also http://www.modelrectifier.com/products/trainSound/soundSystems.asp
This method has the advantage that it covers all your locos for one setup.
Enjoy
Paul

[Favrefan04]

I have seen the MRC Trainsound Systems, and I have been interested in them since I first saw it in my LHS. My next question is for those of you out there that have been around a locomotive with a sound decoder and speaker installed and also been around one of these systems. Which do you think is better? I know that bang for the buck it is probably the sound system approach. Does the sound seem to follow the locomotive? How effective is it if you have multiple locos operating at the same time. I think that having both would be a good idea. You could use the sound system for the different ambient noises, and the in loco system for the locomotive sounds.

I would like to have a little more info. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody that is near me that has a layout that I can visit and experience these things for myself.

I think that if I could get some of the ambient sounds put onto my computer and have it play the sounds that would work just as well as the MRC system and it would obviously be much cheaper. It would be much like what Ted has done, and I like that idea quite a bit.

Thanks again for all of your posts and input.

[Favrefan04]

Ted, where did you get all of the different sounds that you have on your tape deck? I would be very interested in finding them and either putting them on my computer, or onto a CD to use much in the same way that you have.

Again, very nice idea Ted. It is quite the money saver.

[cwclark]

What i did was to purchase two MRC sound systems and installed them under the layout...that way I can have one sound system keep a constant sound going while i use the other one for specialty sounds..horns, whistles, bells, brakes ect...it works pretty good and it cost under $100 for both sound systems...the built in sound systems in the locomotives are more realistic, but the MRC system gets the job done ...I kind of like the quiet anyway...the chug chug chug or ding ding ding sound gets on my nerves after awile and i usually shut it off after it's been on long enough to start driving me crazy anyway...(wait until you've worked in a plant for over 25 years..you'll enjoy the quiet too!..LOL)...chuck

[Favrefan04]

Actually after reading all the replies and thinking about it for a while I think that a better question would be what is the best way to get some good quality sound at a decent price.

[simon1966]

One thing about the MRC sound systems, is that kids love them! Having all the buttons to press is a blast for them. If you have ever seen anyone at a train show demonstrating the device, it always gets a lot of attention.

The cheapest way to get good quality sound would probably to look for a BLI on clearance somewhere. I got an E unit for right around $100 off e-bay including shipping.

[Anonymous]

Favrefan04, there are any number of tapes and older L.P. discs available at LHS and probably "on line." Being the "low tech," frugal type, I opted to select various appropriate sound effects from an old L.P. (stereo) I purchased years ago. I'm sure you can do a lot better today. One "trick" I employed was "over-dubbing" (sound on sound) background "Grand Central Station" effects [e.g. station master's announcements, baggage wagon's clatter, passenger traffic, et al.]. Once that initial "track" was laid down, I "over-dubbed" steam and diesel effects from a "dead stop" to road speeds (clickty-clack). The "road effect" I recorded from the open vestibule of a passenger car on a train from Mexico City to Guadalajara. Fading in and out of the urban (station) effects to road sounds was a little hairy but eventually (trial and error), I acheived the desired results. I guess the operative word here is "imagination." With a little creativity, you can do most anything you choose. Like cwclark, I too grow weary of a constant noisy "din" but that is just my opinion. Oh yes, I have two 90 minute tapes, so they offer some variety in program material. Best of Luck.

[johncolley]

Another option in case you plan to run multiple units, in my case I have a four unit Stewart FT ABBA that I converted three of the units to DCC with Digitrax decoders. The other B unit I went back to the original dummy chassis and had Bruce at Litchfield Station install wall to wall sound. It has a Soundtrax decoder, 2 woofers and a tweeter. It is great and when running it is impossible to tell the source unless you are right next to it! It sounds just like all four units have sound.

[Anonymous]

From my observations of late, I would say that purchasing a locomotive with sound installed is generally more cost effective than purchasing all the components seperately and doing it yourself. If, however, you already have the locomotive and you just want to add sound to it, it is probably cheaper to buy the components and add them to the existing locomotive. You may also have something that you would like to run on your layout that is not available already equipped with sound, in which case you would need to add sound to it yourself. One advantage to purchasing a sound equipped locomotive is that it was built with the intent of having sound, and therefore you don't have to try to figure out what will fit where. Many of the other suggestions were good, too, if all you're looking for is sound to provide ambiance.
I have an MRC "Sound & Power 7000" power pack from quite a few years ago, that was great back then. Now (by today's standards) it seems pretty pathetic. It only offers steam or diesel sounds, is difficult to synchronize with the locomotive, and the whistle/horn option doesn't sound very realistic, but when I got it, it was one of the first systems to offer what I was looking for. With the sound equipped locomotives that are available these days, that is where my attention is being focused.
-Joe

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

Gary, I have made a similar evaluation regarding E7's. When BLI first came out with the sound equipped units, I compared their price with installing a Soundtraxx unit into one of my exisiting P2000 units. The total cost was about the same for either solution. Then some of the BLI dealers dropped the price of the sound equipped unit and I was able to pick one up for about $100.00. A no brainer. However, I think I am going to go the soundtraxx route with one of my Protos.

Very good comparison. I'm taking "both" routes. I've decided to get just one BLI E7 and then equip my P2K E7s with Soundtraxx units. l like the advantage of being able to choose between different horn sounds on Soundtraxx.

[;)]

[Virginian]

If you do not already have DCC (a seperate expense in itself), or plan on installing it, your only choice for good onboard sound is a QSI equipped loco, BLI, Proto, Atlas, or whatever, because they don't sell the system direct, and the Soundtraxx Tsunami does not exist yet. And nothing else out there compares to QSI.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ted D. Kramer

I'm almost certain this "option" will not meet with most M.R.'s approval. Having said that, I placed inexpensive stereo speakers (hand made enclosures) at various locations around the layout. ...The recording (cassette) is of various diesel, steam, passenger station, et al., sounds. ...

Cool! I thought there must be others out there who did sounds the way I did on my old layout. Some friends of mine are saying they'll need [large] under-layout speakers to reproduce the low-pitched 'rumble' effect of most 2nd-gen EMD locos - the tiny onboard speakers just don't cut it for them.

[selector]

I can only speak from my recent and very limited experience, cespecially ompared to the four and five 'star' generals above. Even one of 'em beats my experience with a laugh.

I agree, by all means do what pleases you and the second most important person in your life. That combo is always a winner....and a healthy start. This has to be a personal and fun hobby. Why else would you do it?

I have a few hours on a BLI J1e Hudson and the sound it makes as it travels along my track is glorious...period.

The sound fades nicely as it enters my sizeable mountain, and rises to announce it when it emerges on the other side. Just like in real life!

I also feel that the sound, which is adjustable (including off) may get a bit tiring after a while, especially at the high factory setting. I reset mine to level 9 from 17 and found that to be much more in scale with the surroundings, and less fatiguing. The constant chuffing at level 17 was getting old fast.

Hope this helps a bit..

[Anonymous]

Hi Ken Larson, since very low bass frequencies are omni-directional (60 c.p.s. and lower), a sub-woofer located below the yards or station might be a solution for the sub-sonics (rumble) of an EMD at idle. On board (QSI, etc.) is truly impressive but if you want "living presence;" when you "feel" the sounds under your feet- -there is nothing quite like a quality sub-woofer. Then all you need is an old cofee can with a drop of kerosene [diesel perfume] in it and VOILA! "You Are There!" LOL, TDK

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: Ted Kramer: The "road effect" I recorded from the open vestibule of a passenger car on a train from Mexico City to Guadalajara.

I wish I had been down here when they still had some passenger trains. With the exception of a couple of special runs, like the Copper Canyon train which is basically a tourist operation, passenger traffic doesn't exist here anymore.

But back to the original thread, I'm going to get an MRC Sound Station. With my little 3'x 6'-8" semi-portable layout that will probably be all I'll need. I'm in N scale, and not using DCC, so sound in locos isn't an option for me.

In any case, it will be better than blowing on that little wood loco whistle I bought.


Regards

Ed

[Anonymous]

egmurphy, I booked my Piedras Negras- -Mexico City- -Guadalajara round trip in August of 1993. I had a full bedroom in a smooth side B & O veteran (pullman built) 80 ft. car. Between the time of buying the tickets and our departure, N de M discontinued dining and club car service. Big disappointment as the catered meals (in room) were something between "mystery meat" and "road-kill!" The Mex. City- -Guadalahara leg was as beautiful as the Texas (Eagle Pass) to Mexico City was bland. I'm not sorry for the experience. Hey it was railroading.

The MRC Sound Station should be ideal for your Pike. I admire the pix of your work, very nice. I'm into an HO garage layout, so a slight "time-delay" effect makes some sense. I coordinated a "timed" casette tape from station crowd noises (departure) through five minutes of road sounds (accelerating to sustained 70 m.p.h.), then decleration to a dead stop (arrival) at the next station. My car (Mexico) was too far back in the 22 car consist to pick up the loco's air chime, so I did "sound on sound" (over-dubbing) for that effect. I do "shifting" chores in the yard whilst the passenger train completes its' cycle. Mind you, this is only for when I have guests. Otherwise, I play a tape of random typical effects you would expect to hear around trains, street cars and traffic, seperately and simultaneously (a real "din"). Surround-sound really isn't practical for my size layout. For a large [long main line] Pike, I enthusiastically recommend it. Hasta la Vista y adios. Good luck to you Ed.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Favrefan04

I have been looking for the locos that I want online, and I have found them in two different ways, with sound and without sound. I was hoping that those of you out there that has already put sound into their locos could help me. Is it more cost effective to buy them without sound and put it in myself, or to go ahead and get it with sound? I haven't checked to see what it would cost to get the soundtraxx decoder and the speaker yet. The locos that I found were going for right around $200. Is that too much for say a SD40-2 with sound? The manufacturer is BLI, which other than what I have seen a little on here I know nothing about. Is that a good buy, or should I try to find one without and put the sound in myself? I am not affraid of any of the wiring, as I am an electronics repairman for the military. So that part won't be too much of a problem.

Thanks in advance for all your replies and input.
Gary

The past BLI sale prices have made me chance waiting for the sale instead of getting the model when it first comes out. BLI engines in general are worth the money, but most of their models have been discounted greatly by BLI just to move the remaining stock. They are bringing in more items that the market will purchase and the stock must be moved to allow them the ca***o bring in the next items.

Your problem might be not getting the exact road number or name you want, but you can save much money by waiting. Good luck on getting the one you want.

[Anonymous]

I have been using the MRC Sound Station for over a year now, and had a lot of fun with it. I purchased the BLI SD40-2 as soon as it came out. I'm giving my Sound Station to my brother. MR had an article recently about sound systems, and installing these babies is no cakewalk. BLI has done an excellent job, and I can't wait till the AC6000 and the C30-7 comes out. Atlas has a CW40-8, B40-8, and a SD24 on the way. I have the Sidekick programmer which will work with all current QSI sound systems. I'll probably purchase the Quantum Engineer when it is released because each function has it's own button. With the Sidekick, you hold down the horn button while increasing the throttle. After the voice from the engine tells you that you're in the programming mode, holding the horn button down will take you through the options. When you get to the option you want to change, let off the button and press it again to make your changes. To return to normal operation, turn the throttle off. Throttle back up and you're running. My layout sounds like a real railroad now. You won't regret purchasing one of these.

[TurboOne]

I have just returned to the hobby this last December. Never even cared about sound. Then I went to the local train store. WOW has this hobby changed. Sound is incredible. But to get the engine I wanted, steam of course, and the DCC was going to cost over $1G and that was for 1 engine. I wrote about it here on the trains forum. A great guy sent me his sound system. Incredible, and my son, daughter and I make lots of noise all the time. I do appreciate no sounds when they are not out there, but when they are the looks on their faces is awesome.

Ted great job, and like it has been said

If it makes you happy, its good. [:D][:)][:)][:)][:)]

Tim