When to Start Over with your Layout?

[whitman500]

Here's a question for those of you who have built several layouts and been in model railroading for many years: when should you scrap your first layout and startover?

To give the full story, I started my current layout in November of 2004. My wife and I had just purchased a house with a basement and for the first time since high school I was not living in a dorm room or an apartment and so I decided to get back into model railroading (I had a layout as a kid in my parents' basement). Being impatient, I ran down to the LHS, bought the Atlas King Size track plan book and immediately started on building the benchwork and ordering the necessary track.

3 months later I have finished the original track plan (it is a table layout on a 12x4 board with basically two different levels). The table is built, the track laid and things basically wired (I am running DCC). However, over the last 3 months I have read a lot of model railroading books and magazines and have become familiar with walkaround layouts, realistic operation, etc. and now realize that my current layout will never be that great. The figure 8 mainline is hopelessly unrealistic and the use of 18" curves and #4 turnouts limits both reliability and the equipment I can run. In addition, since I was new to everything, the quality of my assembly job is fairly mediocre so I have some problems with derailments.

Anyway, I've learned a lot from building the layout and from all the reading I have done and the question I would pose to the experts is when should I start over. I have the money to buy new benchwork supplies, track etc. but not necessarily a lot of time (my job is fairly demanding). From those who have been in this situation before, should I suck it up and start over and do it right (or at least meaningfully better this time) or plow ahead with a mediocre layout for another year or two while continuing to develop my skills and knowledge?

Sorry for the long post. I'd be interested to hear others experience in this regard.

[SpaceMouse]

YOu still seem to be early on in the current layout. If your intrests lie in another direction, why continue with what won't get you there.

[Anonymous]

Hey, you sound just like me right now. I know i am young (highschool-15), but trust me, I have learned alot about realisticy and operations. I started when I was 10 on a 4x8 with my dad and since this last year, reading mags and all, I have out grown this layout completely. My dad and I work on it every weekend since (we took a year break or so once we got the track and most mountains down) and we still enjoy it, pretty much lol. Just last week I asked my dad if we could start over with a 10x10 or something walkaround. (We have a island now) and he and I had diff ideas-I wanted a SP 60's layout. (Im way more knowing of model railroading than my dad-but it works out between us ok.) anyway...I decided to stay with the layout for now and just try to fix it up and get more detailed. I figured that most start out with a 4x8 and now they are in MR and have great huge layouts. My time will come. FOR YOU-START OVER! Best regards-good luck! Ben

[hminky]

My advise is if you don't want to go into the layout room, start over. I think you should start with a small beginner's layout with the intent of tearing it down and building it right the next time. A small initial layout will give you a better idea where you want to go. Most things can be salvaged. I am presently building a 4x8 layout in On30 to develop techniques for the larger layout, it is my first experience in O scale.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/main_page/

Just a thought[:D]
Harold

[Anonymous]

Model Railroading is for fun. Expanding your present layout or starting a new layout depends on resources such as funds, space, TIME, and how much fun it is to have a model railroad layout. Having an individual layout has advantages over club layouts because you make all the decisions. It's best to start small and decide if this railroad hobby is as fun as it looks. If you have the resources and you really enjoy our hobby then GO FOR IT!

[Anonymous]

Model railroading is different things to different people. My current layout, approaching 2 years of age and 99.9% complete has opened my eyes to different designs. Though I have 2 mainlines, a short line, numerous spurs and a reversing section, I too am limited to what I can do and can run. (My inner shortline is 15" radius). So, this spring the 4x8 is scheduled for demolition and though I dont have a lot of room, I will likely be building a 6x8 in two layers, the bottom for staging and reversing. A view of my current plan is at the site in my signature. I will be posting the tentative plans for the new layout soon.

I intend for my new layout to have minimum 22" radius & #6 turnouts to be able to enjoy my love of large steam and my 4% grade will go to a maximum of 2%. It will also give me more scenery space which I really love doing.

Also, I hope to learn from my past mistakes on track laying and make a much more reliable layout that will really be fun to operate in a more realistic mode.

[Anonymous]

I am just starting on my first layout since me teens (many years ago) I am designing it to be put together is stages, to be easy to switch to DCC if I hit the lottery, and I expect I will want to replace it almost as soon as it is done. With any kind of luck my skills will develop quit a bit working on the first layout.

[canazar]

Whitman,

It sounds like you have ansewered your own question. I was in the same boat. I spent 8 moths buidling mine but realized, you like did and others, that it was not what I wanted once I was exposed ot more. I decied to yank and start all over again. But, as luck woudl have it. We decied to move. So I am stuck with the one I have now and in afe wmotnhs, I have to tear it down and rebuild anywas.

Couple of things to think about. I would start working in the "paperstage" and try and come up with a track plan you want. Think about design, operations and such. Once you have got down what you like, make it happen. In the mean time, if you know you are going to tear it up, you can always expeirment on the lay out, with scenry techinques or work on your track.

Just my .2cents.... [:)] Good luck, sounds like you are on the rigth path either way though.

Best Regards
John K

[GMTRacing]

It's funny how so many of us face the same things. I dragged my disassembled set out for the first time in 20 years last Dec. My 14 year old found the boxes in the basement and thought it would be cool to try them. I never did any senics with the other setups I've had as we were always moving and I never had that much time so we threw a 4x8 up and put down some track. We now have a 5x4 add on ell (we still don't have enough room does anyone ever?) and a helix and all new track and scenery and bridges and much more fun than just a simple track on wood. Building is as much fun for me as operating and these layouts are never done.By all means, modify what you've started or start over as you see fit life's too short not to enjoy. J.R.

[mike33469]

I was out of the hobby for many years when an issue of Model Railroader caught my eye. On the cover was a 4X8 layout with plans on how to build it, to make a long story short I built it, probably got it about 75% finished when I started meeting guys at my LHS . I soon realized even though the track was laid correctly [no derailments] it was wired correctly [for DCC] and the scenery looked great, it left alot to be desired. It really had no operational potential something I had never thought about before talking to the guys who hang out at the LHS. After 3 years of work and sweat I tore it down and started work on an around the room shelf layout. I have about 85% or 90% of the track laid no scenery but I love running trains on it, I can actually do some realistic switching and its great fun. I can't wait to finish laying the rest of the track. I'd say tear down your current layout and build something you'll be happier with. Just do some research and come up with a track plan that will do what you want your layout to do.

[AggroJones]

I made the desision to tear down my 4.5' x 10' eight months ago. It was as complete as it was ever going to be. Fully tracked, structures around, details everywhere. Generic northern California scenery. (you can see some shots of it, follow the link in my signature its the first 3 album pages.) I wasn't sick of it. In fact I really loved it. But the radius restrictions urked me. My max was 22" and 24". That, and the fact 30 car trains chased their own tails helped in the desicion to build a larger layout.
Ya see, I still live with my parents. So I don't have an option of where to stick a layout besides my room. Now, my room is 9 x 11. But I have a 2 x 7 sliding door closet with the door removed. The absolute largest layout I could build would measure 11 x 11 overall. Its shaped like a square with a giant chunk of one corner "chipped" out. And the shelves couldn't be to wide, as I still had to live in that room.
Now I used all the information I learned from that layout and put it into the more sucessful one in progress now. I'm closer to one of my goals--a longer main line run. I can run a 30 car reefer block without the engineer being able to wave to the conductor.

I reused alot of the material--lumber, facsia, track, trees, etc.--on this newer layout.
The new layout is like 74 square feet., with more traveling distance than the old one.
And I got to include more features like vertical scenery, a back drop, trains that pass through a scene only once, elevated track, a large brigde, and a yard that holds more than 10 cars. I've got most of the things I want of this layout. I still operate under straight DC though. Only cause some of my locomtives are to hard to convert to DCC.

whiteman500, if you feel really dissatisfied with what you're doing, stop. Start over. Use what you learned so far to try and do things right from the begining.

[tigerstripe]

Starting to see the same answer over & over again. Also you said it yourself, #4 turnouts and 18" curves are bad enough but nothing spoils the fun more than poorly laid track. Settle for nothing less than no derailments.
Assume that you decided to continue, thru scenery, structures, figures, details...
after all this time, effort and $ you still can't run the engines and cars you really want and your train won't stay on the track, whats the point?
It's easy to make mistakes, learn from them..

After 21 years and 5 layouts, I know a few things that work and many more that don't.....Bite the bullet and better luck next time!

[Anonymous]

Atlas does a great job of selling its products by publishing track plans that use, well, lots of their products. Many of them are from the beginning days of sectional track, when 18 inch radius was normal for a 4 by 8 board. You're not the only one sucked into thinking one of those Atlas plans was cool. They look great in the books. Like everyone else here says, though, you need to start over. Most of your materials can be salvaged and used again. Flextrack in HO is not hard to master, and you'll really enjoy curves of at least 24 inch minimum radius. Go for it. You learned a lot from this first layout!

[whitman500]

All:

Thanks for the great responses. I think in the end my plan is to do a new layout within the next 6 months. In the interim, I'm going to keep reading and work on stuff that can be transferred to the new layout (buildings, cars, etc.). I'll be sure to post the track plan when I'm done.

[Anonymous]

How does your layout run? If everything is working as it should and you enjoy operating it then maybe you should finish it. If, on the other hand it isn't working mechanically the way you would like and it is not easily correctable then start over. I am building my third layout. Each layout is an improvement on what I had built before. There is one thing I would change in the building of my layout but overall I am very pleased with it. From my previous layouts I decided upon these design principles/aspects. I have to be able to reach the trains easily, it must run smoothly, I only use ground-throw switches, the main line has to be a twice around and I need to be in the middle of the layout surrounded by trains. My first two layouts were 4' x 8' Nscale layouts and I got very frustrated when I couldn't reach a train from where I am standing. Oh, I forgot a few other principles. It must have mountains and tunnels, the tunnels have to be easily accessable from the rear and I like having some bridges. Also, I have a two track main line which goes into single track when crossing over the bridge and running through the mountain. This was planned and intentional to add opperating interest. The main line only has three electrical blocks. The sidings/yard have their own seperate blocks. My layout is a "donut" style that I crawl under to get into the middle of. It is 7' x 8' and Nscale. My first layout was an Atlas spaghetti plan that had several blocks and two reversing loops. It was too confusing to operate, hence the three block mainline on my current layout. This is what I like best. I came to these criteria/characteristics by trial and error. Sorry I was so long winded. With each layout you build and operate, you will learn a lot that you can apply to the design of your next layout.

[Anonymous]

Good Evening:

Why pour money down a deep hole? My current layout (#4) is laid with #5 switches in the yard, since the stubbs are only 10 cars long why waste money on #6 switches. Now the main line is something else - it's all laid with #6 or 28/32 curved turnouts and 28" to 36" radius curves. Very few of your present switches will be able to be used again because you wont want that sharp of a turnout.

The best solution is, if you can, use the current layout until you've got enought of the next layout built to run trains. You know, or have a feel for, what structures you want on the next layout so you can be building those ahead of time.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
My layout is about 12' X 14' and I still don't have space for most of the Walthers structures as they take up to much room. The Alpine models are smaller and convey the same idea. They also take longer to build but generate a lot of pride when done.

Bob

[Anonymous]

I wish I had come here and asked questions before I started in on my layout. Now that I'm nearly done with the scenery, and all the track is laid, and trains are running, I found out that you can run along hte walls of a room and get a lot more out of your trainroom. As much as I would like to tear it all down and restart, I think I better get it done and run it for a few years first. Then, as I find my mistakes, and learn from them and pick up more ideas from here and my LHS, I might start over. I woudl think after you've done it once, the second time around would go incredibly quickly adn hopefully a lot easier.

Greg

[dinwitty]

Guess what, I am in a new layout design phase. Yes the lay it down on tabletop get the trains runing I have done, but thats exactly as the layout planning and running goes, get the trains rolling.

A really good layout has meaning and story behind it along with good track planning and workmanship.

My personal point of view...
I want like a small layout to drop engines on to test and run as I build and work on them,. but have a seriously great modeled layout designed right.

[Anonymous]

I've been in mine about 18 months, and in general it is a expermintal layout. I allready have decided to rebuild in about another year, till then i am usin gto learn how to carve rocks, build trestles. ANd all my buildings will be transerferable. Also i am planning on handlayiing all my track on the next layout. Not unusual but i am working in three rail high rail, using atlas track.
ALso next time i want to use the spline method of roadbed construction. THere is something to being able to run trains as you learn. ]
Bill

[Roadtrp]

I don't know that there is a right or wrong here. If you feel that putting additional time into your present layout would be time and money wasted, you certainly might want to start over.

On the other hand, it seems that you have not done much beyond track-laying and wiring on your present layout. You might want to try building some scenery on your "starter layout" before you go on to the one you plan to be with over the long run.

Because of space I am limited to a 3-1/2" by 7" N scale layout. That is never going to give me space for realistic operation, especially since I want to have continuous running. So I will concentrate on improving my scenery in the future. For me, that is an area for HUGE improvement. Unfortunately, I don't spend the time at it that I should. I far prefer building structures, acquiring new rolling stock and watching my trains run in circles to building scenery. Some day though... I'm not that far from retirement.

[;)]

[dehusman]

When you start asking yourself if you should start over, its time to start over.

By asking the question, you are saying that something on the current layout is not meeting your needs or expectations.

The hard part is figuring out what is wrong with the first layout so you don't duplicate it on the next one.

Dave H.

[JeremyB]

I just tore down my 4X8 that i had for 2 years, It just got to the point that I had to drag myself in the train room. that was the sign for me that It was time to start over. Im hoping to start a new one in the Fall.

Jeremy

[Anonymous]

I feel that building a new layout is a major undertaking so I have to be pretty determined and have a good idea of what I want to do differently before starting such a project. What is more common is for me to tear out a section I'm not happy with and redo it. Each layout I have built, I have worked on for years.

[davekelly]

When is it time to start over? When you (and only you) feel that by doing so you'll enjoy the hobby more.

[Anonymous]

[#ditto] If you don't enjoy running your trains on your current layout then by all means it is time to start again .Either a complete rebuild or sectional rebuild to allow for larger radius more main line what ever. I just tore down three years worth of work so I could run the larger ridgid frame locos like the C&O 2-10-4 and its pennsy sister the J1. This time my entire layout will be in module form so when the next great thing is released then hopefully it will be just a matter of changing out a module or two,three, four [censored] Good luck with your layout Terry