My version of the Heisler maneuver--but is it supposed to whine?

[SpaceMouse]

I got my Rivarossi Heisler today and of course brought it home to put it through it's paces.

Someday I'm going to put my Proto 2000 S1 and and the Heisler neck and neck and see who will win the 100 yard mosey.

I ran it around the track a few times and noticed a whine which I assume are the gears on the drive. But it is louder than any of my other engines (not counting the BLI E7.) Is that normal?

By the way, I pulled 5 cars out from the Bachman Overland set (half of what is normally pulled by the Bachman 4-8-4 and let the old 2-truck go. I couldn't pull them up the 3% incline. So I tried my MDC 2-6-0 and it couldn't pull them up either. So I went bigger and my daughter's 4-4-0 couldn't do it either. In fact, the only engines that could get it up were the Bachman 4-8-4 and my Broadway M1A.

I can take my MDC rolling stock and let them run down the 3% grade it will complet the oval and start back up the incline. I took the cars out of the Bachman set and best of the bunch almost made the bottom of the grade.

The five Bachman cars together were a heavy load. I got a good lesson in the differences between good rolling stock and bad.

Anyway is the Heisler supposed to whine?

[Jetrock]

It probably should--that gearing's moving pretty fast. You do have some LaBelle oil now, right? Try lubricating the gearing on the Heisler--check the manual to find out where the best lube points are--and see if it still makes as much whine.

Ahh, I see you're discovering why we say a 3% grade is something to avoid--because it's something to avoid!!

One thing you might try to make rolling a little easier: Replace the plastic wheelsets on *ALL* your rolling stock with Intermountain semi-scale metal wheelsets. They are a lot more free-rolling and will cut down on drag. They will also make track cleaning easier, as they don't leave little layers of plastic gunk on your track. I don't even let cars on my layout without metal wheelsets anymore, and I don't even have grades!

There's a reason why Southern Pacific built those monstrtous cab-forward Mallets to go over the Sierras--steep grades need meaty engines!

[steveblackledge]

metal wheelsets are the way to go, the Bachmann silver series of buget trucks are super smooth runners, if a little basic, when you pull 12 of these by hand then pull of another make with plastic wheels you can tell the difference big time !.

[SpaceMouse]

The thing that makes a difference in the rolling stock I have is the metal axels, although I don't have any with metal wheels.

[Vampire]

Metal wheels will make a difference too. They will roll more easily that the plastic wheels and ( as mentioned) will pick up much less dirt in the process.

[Anonymous]

I am in the process of converting all plastic wheelsets in my rolling stock to Metal For example my 45 or so Boxcars (athearn) will recieve P2k wheels and in some cases trucks. The rolling resistance is reduced very greatly and the track does not get so dirty. You also remove the "wobble" from having bad plastic wheels on your cars as well. I think most of the cars in HO will accept various metal wheelsets without too much trouble. However specific wheels may have axles in different lengths and it may be necessary to "ream" out trucks to get them to spin freely.

plastic is dead, long live metal.

[Don Gibson]

SPACEMOUSE:

QUOTE: " I got my Rivarossi Heisler today and of course brought it home to put it through it's paces. ..(it ) Whine's) "

The 'whine' is from the gearing down.
SPACEY: Whena are you gonna stop-a buying Orphans?

QUOTE: "The five Bachman cars together were a heavy load. I got a good lesson in the differences between good rolling stock and bad"

It's the TRUCKS. It's the TRUCKS .(not the cars). Buy a pair of KATO or D&G trucks and see the difference.

(Lose your amateur standing),

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

(Lose your amateur standing),

Don't I at least need to get the electrical hooked up on first layout before I can lose my amateur standing?

I have no interest in making the Bachman rolling stock better. It fits neither the Hogwarts alyout or the 1890's layout. But I'll keep new trucks in mind.

[Anonymous]

Metal wheels are great, i love them. But, I also use a "truck tuner" from micro-mark. You put it in the truck as you would a wheelset, roll it back and forth a few times. Take it out, turn it around and do the same. Reapeat the proccess for all the bearings on all the cars you have. A tuned truck with plastic wheels rolls better than a non-tuned truck with metal wheels. A tuned truck with metal wheels is a thing of beauty[:D]

[Don Gibson]

SPACED MOUSE:

[QUOTE"Don't I at least need to get the electrical hooked up on first layout before I can lose my amateur standing?"

FOR you! ... ...

[GN-Rick]

Yes. The Rivarossi Heisler whines.By today's standards, it is rather old
technology-it's been around, mostly unchanged, for at least 15 years.
It looks pretty good, has a nice mechanism and runs pretty well but
it is definitely not even close to today's offerings in geared steam-the
Bachmann Shay and Climax engines. I own one of each and in my
opinion, they are the cream of the crop in geared locomotives. The
Heisler's gearing does make noise, and the motor in it is not up to
current standards-it is more similar to an old slot car motor-and itself
generates noise. (yes, I also own a Heisler so it's not as if I'm blowing
smoke.)[:D] They were good in their day, but have been surpassed by
new technology.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: I have no interest in making the Bachman rolling stock better. It fits neither the Hogwarts alyout or the 1890's layout. But I'll keep new trucks in mind.

Ahh, but you can do both!! Don't replace the trucks--just the wheelsets! Use the "truck tuner" mentioned above, if you like--it's cheap and effective. But the nice thing about the wheelsets is that you can pop them into and out of your trucks in about ten seconds! So you can improve your current rolling stock, to see how much better it works with metal wheelsets, and then pop them back out (popping the old plastic trucks back in) when your new rolling stock is ready.

[SpaceMouse]

Playing on my amatuer status: Are the wheels on the wheel set metal or just the axels. The MDC roundhouse "old time" stuff I have have metal axels and plastic wheels and roll really well.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: The Rivarossi Heisler whines.By today's standards, it is rather old
technology-it's been around, mostly unchanged, for at least 15 years.

I'd say its been around for longer than that. I bought one in the early 1980's when I got back into the hobby, so that's 20+ years. And I think it was out quite some time before that, as I recall seeing ads in the magazines for it. So I'd guess it is at least 25 years old. I have a new one on order from Trainworld and I am anxious to see if there are many changes in these years.

Bob Boudreau

[cmrproducts]

I don’t see the need for this Truck Tuner every one is talking about. Using it would just open up the distance between the side frames and everyone of my side frames are too wide now. I have never found a set of freight car trucks that were too tight!

What type of trucks are you finding that need this done to, or are you just using it because everyone else does and it is a neat looking tool!

I have over 800 cars on my layout and have never need this tool and I have just about every brand there is, including some old metal Manuta’s etc.

What I find is that the side frames are way too wide and this lets the points of the axles ride to high in the side frame and effectively lowers the overall car height. Now I have to add the Kadee red washers to raise up the coupler to the proper height.

Now if I take the side frames and squeeze them to make the axle points ride where they should, suddenly the car now sets at the proper height and actually rolls much better.

But then again I spend the time to figure out just WHY the trucks are not working right, but do I change/modify all of them NO! I just put in the Kadee washer and let it go.

I have all the cars weighted to NMRA specs. and in a few months of operations I am getting complaints that the Kadee hoses are catching on the turnouts. I run them through the Kadee height gauge and find that they are low again. I have to add another Kadee red washer to get the coupler back up to the proper height WHY? The axles are wearing into the plastic side frames, that why! And this is with all brands of trucks not just the old Athearn and MDC.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[Don Gibson]

THE 'TOOL' is just a 'cure all' for people with poor quality trucks. IHC cars (with NEM dimensions come to mind) are popular on this forum, Your right, they are not needed on most US suppliers such as MDC, which roll superbly..

METAL WHEELS have side benefit's such as polishing rail, and going 'clicity click' over joints. but their rolling 'quality' is determined by polishing the axle points and composition of the JOURNALS (Whut;s them?). FRICTION, or lack of it, is determined by the axles ease of turning in the journals - NOT the wheels themselves.

Fotunately early aftermarket wheel makers such as NWSL and JayBee gave us qualtiy axles with their wheels, but this is no guarantee others will. If 'metal wheels SELL, that's all that matters for some suppliers - Many will find THIS out.

[simon1966]

I have used this tool on my Athearn trucks and nearly all of them have some flash or crud in them. When used the rolling capability is dramatically improved. I always use the tool when replaceing the wheels with metal ones.

[rrinker]

"The Tool" does not make the trucks wider, unless you keep at it longer than the instructions call for. The real point of it is to get a proper shape on the journal area, and/or remove any burrs that might be in there. It really works, but naturally the improvement varies with the original condition of the truck being cleaned up. When it comes to mass produce Athearn Blue Box trucks, the improvements are often substantial.

--Randy

[steveblackledge]

the truck wheel tuner is a good investment, i use it on older walthers kits when replacing the plastic wheel sets with Kadee metal wheels,
you don't have to scew the tool around all day just a few turns is all it takes to get a super smooth finnish in the axlebox

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Playing on my amatuer status: Are the wheels on the wheel set metal or just the axels. The MDC roundhouse "old time" stuff I have have metal axels and plastic wheels and roll really well.

The metal wheelsets are all metal, except for a plastic ring around one axle so the truck doesn't short out--the wheel as well as the axle are metal. The MDC trucks are pretty good but you'll be amazed how much nicer the Intermountain wheelsets are.

As mentioned above, you'll see several improvements: metal wheels are heavier, which means the cars will weigh a little more and the weight is all at the lowest possible point, so they'll track better, the track will stay cleaner, you'll get more lovely "clickety-clack" when the train runs, and your cars will generally roll easier.

Don Gibson's mention of friction on the bearings/axles is a good point--I find that the Intermountain wheelsets have nice "pointy" axle ends and I assume they generate far less friction than the cruddy old plastic axle/wheel wheelsets I replaced on some of my cars, and definitely less than the rusty old metal axles on the other half. And for kits I recently bought that have new plastic/metal wheelsets, well, I figure I get all the other benefits and I like having a common standard.

The Micro-Mark tool doesn't make the space for the axles any wider--it is a set width, and if the axles are sufficiently wide and nothing is obstructing them, the tool doesn't scrape anything away. I find they're nice for getting gunk out of old trucks, and as a way to eliminate problems on cars that do seem to have axle binding due to gunk or flash, but I don't normally use it on every car unless there seems to be a problem.

I'm a total snob for Intermountain semi-scale wheels, though...they cost more but I think they're worth it.