UPDATE: Users of Bachmann EZ Commander inquiry

[simon1966]

Unless the EZ command proves to be a realiability nightmare, it has to be good for MRRing. DCC is a lot more fun than DC, and I would think that a DCC system like the EZ would be more likely to hold the interest of a young teen in this world of PS2 and Gameboys, than a cheap lifelike trainset. I bet that there will be a lot of folks that get into DCC this route and then gravitate to more sophisticated systems in the future.

[bcammack]

The EZ Command system is meant as an inexpensive "upgrade" path for the casual model railroader who is willing to spend, say $20, more for it over a new MRC power pack. I think everybody will readily admit that the EZ Command provides a huge increase in features and functionality over a $50 power pack and, in that context, represents an excellent value for someone who isn't seeking the Alpha and Omega of DCC systems nor aspires to an empire-sized layout.

Face it, if you buy one for $70, it doesn't matter if you decide you love DCC or absolutely hate it, you'll still be able to recover most of your investment when you move up or move on because $50 is still less than a decent locomotive and well with in the scope of the "impulse" buy. There's always going to be someone coming along that either knows they want DCC or wants to find out if they do and will buy it from you.

[RMax1]

I got to thinking that when I bought my first computer years ago I did much the samething. I bought a 2k Timex Sinclair when TRS80's were the big deal. $99 vs $1000+ . Worked out great and got me a job.

RMax1

[tstage]

RMax1,

I can't disagree with anything you just said. I already knew before purchasing the Bachmann EZ Command that it was what it was: a basic, no-frills, inexpensive, "limited" DCC system that I could try and and see if I wanted to go the DCC route.

That doesn't bother me because I only paid a little over 1/2 the MSRP for the Bachmann system. Now, if I would have had to pay FULL PRICE for the EZ Command, then I would have mused about it a bit more and probably forked over an extra $50 to upgrade to the Digitrax Zephyr, which you pointed out can do a lot more - and is expandable.

Eventually, I will migrate towards a more sophisticated system. For now, I'm fairly happy with what I've got. BTW, I just ordered a Lenz LE1014-=JST decoder from Litchfield Station for my Mikado so sometime next week I'll have a chance to fire it up and see how things work. Lookin' forward to that... =O)

Tom

[RMax1]

I actually think it is an evolution in the hobby. Eventually everything will be DCC and have sound. With the entry level starter sets still being DC this is the first step into getting train sets away from the traditional power pack. It makes them more exciting and compatible with future upgrades someone makes in the hobby. It also exposes people wondering about DCC to DCC. Lets face it yes the Digitrax Zepher gives a lot of bang for the buck but when you figure a first timer is looking at the $160 plus another $75 to $100 to equip locos with decoders to start(3 or 4 of them) The investment is around $300 maybe more. With the Bachmann system you can go out and for less than $100 have the system and an engine try and see if you even like DCC. Maybe even buy a few other Bachman FT's or GP's at $25 a pop. THEN once you have advanced and/or outgrown the Bachmann unit upgrade to something else with minimal hassle. It's almost as if this thing is a threat. It is not nor is it a replacement for the more advanced systems. Will it drive the cost of the upper systems down? Maybe. The thing I see it possibly doing is sparking interest in the hobby with a new found functionality to the Christmas present receipient. Instead of bashing it and stating what it can't do compared to the more advanced systems people should be cheering it and supporting it because it will get people away from the old DC system, bring more people into the hobby and will eventually close the gap between DC and DCC that exist now. If I were a DCC retailer I would be delighted because it would mean that I would most likely be selling more product. Loy's Toys got my business because I did buy a EZ Command at a show. They will most likely receive my future business when I need more decoders and to upgrade. If it was not for the Bachmann unit I would have stayed with my DC system for sometime.

RMax1

[jrbernier]

As a 'side note' - I have been into DCC from the early days, and curently use a Digitrax Chief system on my layout. I just picked up a Zephyr for a very good price(LHS is closing and I got a real good deal on it). The plan is to use it for programming in my work room, and as a 'backup' if the old 'Chief' ever dies. I have a DB100 'booster' and really have more than enough 'amps' to cover the layout.
The 'Zephyr' will only handle 10 engines at once in it's 'stack', and one can always drop any engines in the stack that are not being used. About the only thing I would lose is 2.5 amps of capacity in a power district, and my fast clock on the DT400R throttles. This has got to be the best 'bang for the buck' system I have ever seen.

Jim Bernier

[jrbernier]

I have watched the Video/DVD and worked with the Bachmann system(about 2 hours). It is possible program decoders(basic stuff like address) and it is possible to do consisting. That said, it is very limited at this time. But we were able to drop a Digitrax DH163L0 decoder in a P2K engine and get it running. Just do not expect that you are going to use all of the light/sound functions as in a BLI sound equipped steamer engine with that system. The basic 'F' functions will work - just sorta 'clunky', IMHO. It is very good if you want to get your feet wet in DCC for a cheap price. The dealer I know was selling the basic units for under $100. The Digitrax 'Zephyr' is $200 MSRP, and the best 'street' price I have seen is about $160 for new one. So there is a market for a 'low end' starter system. I just hope that Bachmann holds true to their word and provides some expansion in the future.

Jim Bernier

[tstage]

Thanks, Don. I'm working on it - as fast as I am able to. I will contact "the dealer" again to get this whole thing straightened out. Thanks for your input and patience.

Tom

[Don Gibson]

TSTAGE
'
Since your post basically aid you were 'given incorrect information on a new product , I raised the question of any possible mis-interpretation of Not what you "understood" - but what he actually said. Forgive me..

I even had the audacity to suggest you call the dealer to (1) correct his info( and (2) clear tup this discrepancy for the rest of us, since you raised it and anyone else complaining would be in a 'heresay 'situation ("this other fellow said").

I was not trying to offend you, but to clarify a very fundimental point about a new and exciting product that many other's would like to know. In short, not just what Bachmann said, vs what the Dealer said.

We now know that Bachmann was correct - within some limiiations - but I remain curious why you wouldn't take the opportunity to set this erroneous dealer straight?

If you erred, correct it. If HE erred, correct him.

[RMax1]

Tom

I bought the DCC Made Easy Book. It was ok and gave some basic information. It's a little dated. It did help some with converting my DC layout over to DCC. The DVD that comes with the EZ Command is really good. Answers a lot of questions. It's funny because there are trains running al over the place in the video at diffrent speeds and on the same track. They show how to perform functions and simple programming. If they could put that out where people could see it would solve a lot of headaches.

RMax1

[tstage]

RMax1

I agree. I found out last night watching the DVD and looking at the manual that the EZ Command will do consisting. (Not something that I'll necessarily utilize but someone else will.) They even showed programming 3 locomotives; one of which was facing the opposite direction of the other two.

Kalmbach does have a basic book on DCC, which I refer back to as I gain (albeit slowly) more and more information about the many aspects of DCC.

Tom

[RMax1]

Wow this has got heated! I for one am glad this is coming out. I have read a bunch of misinformation myself. From what I have read the Bachmann EZ Command will not do the following: You can not run more than one loco at a time, no consisting, no sound capability, now only works with Bachmann decoders. All of that is incorrect! What are the facts? Being an admitted DCC novice I may be new to this but when I see information that I know not to be correct I have to step back and say wait a minute. Then things get to splitting hairs.

I can see why some dealers may have a problem selling the Bachmann unit or supporting it. It's $50 not $250! It does so far what most beginners want at a fifth the price. It allows them to experience DCC with out a lot of cost. Once they learn most will upgrade. People can talk programming modes and this and that but it's all jiibberish and means nothing to novices. This topic has good, bad and useless information thrown about and it does nothing but confuse people. Maybe it will give MR a hint to put out the Absolute Gospel Guide to Starter DCC with make sense in English Facts. Why not there is a Kalmbach book for everything else..

RMax1

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson
The dealer may have mispoke, OR you could have misunderstood and re-translated his message. (I wasn'i there)...It is too easy to misunderstand, and either way a claification is in order. YOU are the one yelling '"FIRE".

Do the right thing.

Don,

Let me set the record straight: both for you and for anyone else who has or might read this post. What you've read is exactly what I sent Bachmann and what Joe Freeman replied to me. I did not "re-translate" anything. What is there is exactly what was sent.

Don, you're a absolutely right! It is too easy to misunderstand - as is what I sense between us. If you call raising your hand and asking someone a legitimate question to help clear up some confusion about a matter "yelling 'Fire'", then...so be it. What I am attempting to do is to get to the bottom of the issue - with the limited amount of DCC understanding that I have - so that everyone (dealers, manufacturers, MRRer's, you, me, etc.) benefits from it.

Hang in there with me on this one, Don. I'm trying to disseminate the informaton to everyone as I receive it and understand it. I'm sorry if you see it otherwise.

Tom

[Don Gibson]

CONFUSION: Yes, Me. Just asking you to clear this up
.

QUOTE: "Unfortunately the Bachmann System can only program Bachmann decoders" - Unnamed soutce

QUOTE: "the decoders in the Bachmann Locos can only be programed in registry mode. There are only 5 options that way. It stands to reason that the E-Z Command system is also limited to Register mode programing. I would believe that your dealer is correct. Most decoders use Paged and Ops mode programming " - JWR 1086.

[tstage]

Don,

That's what I always understood. I guess there still seems to be some confusion out there, just the same.

Tom

[Don Gibson]

According to NMRA If it says "DCC" the Receiver has to conform to a common minimum standard - Ie: work with other 's DCC prugraming devices.

HOW WELL is another matter. Note the NMRA Spec is for the receivers only. The dealer may have mispoke, OR you could have misunderstood and re-translated his message. (I wasn'i there). To wit:

QUOTE: "Unfortunately the Bachmann System can only program Bachmann decoders"

In any case, i think ANOTHER call to the "unamed" dealer would be in order. It is too easy to misunderstand, and either way a claification is in order. YOU are the one yelling '"FIRE".

Do the right thing.

[Anonymous]

glad to hear you got your response from Bachmann.... I hope that the Dealers all have appologies for you.

[eng22]

I have an EZ command, I bought a digitrax decoder from Loys toys, I installed it in a P2K loco, I programmed it with my EZ command. Simple and to the point.

[dinwitty]

DCC was meant for compatibility, anyone who tries to proprietize it is gonna have trouble. There are some systems that have some higher features that won't function on more standard or basic systems, but won't inhibit good standard operating.

[tstage]

UPDATE:

For those of you who might have been interested, I just received a reply about my inquriy from Joe Freeman, VP of Sales at Bachmann Industries. For all intense and purposes, it's basically what I posted here, but I included the dealer's name for Bachmann so that they knew who I had cooresponded with. (Uh,oh I hope this doesn't lead to an ensuing battle. I just glanced at the e-mail again and noticed that one of the cc: recipients of Joe's e-mail to me is to the dealer HIMSELF! [B)]) Anyhow, here is Joe's response to me:

QUOTE:
Subject : Bachmann EZ COMMAND SYSTEM
Date : Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:59:13 -0500

Hi Tom: I am the VP of Sales at Bachmann, and would like to respond to your recent Email on our DCC system. First of all [the dealer]* is totally wrong. Our system was developed in conjunction with Lentz Electronics, one of the major “players” in DCC. It was specifically designed to be used with anyone’s loco, using anyone’s decoders. With your EZ Command system you can run up to 10 locos.

We are developing and will ship our own line of decoders this year. In addition we are developing a complete DCC system which includes a DCC “walk-around companion”, “ companion connector panel”, “ DCC turnout and accessory controller”,” 5amp power booster”-a total inexpensive DCC system.

Hopefully I have addressed all of your concerns. If not please let me know. Please send us your address and we will send you, hot off the press, our 2005 catalog that details our entire line of model railroading, especially our EZ COMMAND SYSTEM which we are very proud of.

Joe Freeman

*I've opted to omit the dealer's real name from the reply for the sake of focusing on the issue

Okay, so according to Bachmann, "anyone’s loco, using anyone’s decoders".

I hope that's been of some interest to some of you. Thanks to all of you who responded. I'm now actually looking forward to receiving my EZ Commander in the mail today. All I need now are some decoders....

Tom

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE TO THE UPDATE:] 2/10/2004 - 12:20 EST

I received the EZ Command system yesterday and I'm fairly pleased with it. I don't have any decoders yet so I've only tried it out briefly on DC. Address button #10 is designated for DC locomotives. A slight buzzing can be heard when the loco is standing idle. (I think I remember reading that this was "normal".) The sound seems to dissapate more when the locomotive is in motion. I'm looking forward to actualy running them with decoders. [:)]

I contacted Loy's Toys NCE for their decoder recommendatons and they were of the same conclusions as the "other dealer" was about the Bachmann stating, "We have reports that the Bachmann DCC unit will not program any decoder other than Bachmann or Lenz. We have also heard that they are trying to fix the problem."

This entire hunt for the truth has turned out to be quite a bit of detective work. I'll be glad when I can finally put it behind me and enjoy my new (but limited) DCC system. Hopefully, this whole thing will be a help to all.

Tom

[jwr_1986]

Forgive me if my understanding is wrong but from a topic on another forum I gathered that the decoders in the Bachmann Locos can only be programed in registry mode. There are only 5 options that way. It stands to reason that the E-Z Command system is also limited to Register mode programing. I would believe that your dealer is correct. Most decoders use Paged and Ops mode programming now. Hope this helps.

Jesse

[RMax1]

I have an Atlas SD35 that I installed an Atlas decoder into and a pair of Proto 2000 E's with TCS TH150DP's. All work just fine with my Bachmann EZ Command. I'm working on a noise problem with the Atlas but it is really old and needs some work anyway. So far no problems. For some reason it sounds like the person you are dealing with is incorrect. I ordered the Atlas decoder locally and the 2 TCS decoders from Loy's Toys in Arkansas with no problems. I spoke with Loy and told him exactly what I had and he said there was no compatability issues. I was concerned about the amp issue and that so far is not a big deal. When the system was demoed for me I saw 2 BLI units 1 steam and an E7 working with sound no problems. There were 3 units running at the same time. I still like my system and for the price it is awesome.

Check out this website. They have information about the decoders that I am using on my Bachmann EZ Command.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/


RMax1

[Anonymous]

The bachmann Ez Command System should work fine. You are limmited to only being able to program the adress but I havent heard of anyone or experienced any problems with running any of my decoder equiped engines using it. Pop the engine on there assign it one of the nine adresses and off ya go.

[Anonymous]

The Bachmann decoders are indeed the basic Lenz ones rebadged - mine still have a Lenz part number stamped on the PCB. I've used these with a Lenz Compact for the past few weeks, not noticed any problems. Programming, etc. all function perfectly. My only minor complaint is that the speed curve programmed in at the factory is not very gradual - it could do with being a little "flatter" at the bottom end to avoid the locos taking off. As budget decoders go they're fine, work well apart from the problem mentioned, and I'm hoping it might be possible to reprogram them to solve this. Hope this is of some use!

[Anonymous]

I will look forward to the answer you get from them.... I just hope it's not a "Sorry for the inconvienience, but we can not help you on this matter for you are not using our Locomotives"...... that would be bad.... I would think that it would be one of the cheap Lenz decoders because I do believe Bachmann uses those in thier Loco's

[tstage]

Brian,

Did that already. The guys on the forum suspected that the dealer misunderstood me. I also e-mailed Bachmann directly.

Tom

[Anonymous]

maybe you should check out the Bachmann forums on this one or email them about it. I am sure they would come up with a solution for you.

[tstage]

I posted the following message over on the Layout forum but I thought it also appropriate for the General Discussion here. Sorry if you've read this already.

I'm looking for some input here. I wanted to know how many of your out there currently using the EZ Command system have installed your own decoder(s), programmed them, and are running them using Bachmann's EZ Command.

The reason for asking is that I received a rather bizarre reply this morning, from a "reputable" DCC dealer (whom shall remain nameless, but is mentioned quite often on this forum), to an e-mail that I sent on Saturday inquiring about their recommendation for decoders for two of my locomotive: An Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 Mikado and a Proto 2000 Alco S1 switcher. I initially told the distributor that I would be running the locomotives with the Bachmann system. Their reply was this:

Tom,
Thanks for your inquiry.

Unfortunately the Bachmann System can only program Bachmann decoders. There are no Bachmann options for these locos.

Use NCE D13srj for Mikado and N14ip for Atlas when you get another system.

Thanks,
[Dealer]

Well, if that's true then that's news to me and I'm VERY disappointed. I was under the impression that I could run pretty much any decoder or non-decoder equipped locomotive with the Bachmann EZ Commander system. The two primary limitations were the 1-amp power supply and the "non-adjustable" CV settings. Am I wrong?

I never read, heard or understood anything to that effect from the MR review article on the Bachmann EZ Command system a few months ago. I sorta got the impression that the dealer was more or less blowing me off because I wasn't using a more sophisticated system. The guys on the Bachmann forum thought that the dealer misunderstood me. Maybe. I WAS very explicit with what I was looking for so I don't think my inquiry was confusing.

Anyhow, have any of the rest of you had any difficulty programming and/or running your decoder-equipped locomotives with the Bachmann system. (I'm talking locomotives other than the inexpensive DCC-equipped ones that Bachmann is now selling.) I would be very interested in hearing any of your responses. Thanks in advance!

Tom