Hello,
I posted not long ago about some questions I had concerning club operations and I recieved some great feedback. Wondering if I could impose further by asking for some more information?
For those of you who are members of a model railroading club, how do you handle younger individuals who want to join?
What is the lowest age you allow as members?
What level of supervision and participation do you require from the parents or legal guardian of your junior members?
Do you have a periodic review of your junior members to see how they are getting along or to address any possible issues before they become too serious?
Do you have a limit on how many junior members can be belong to your club at any one time?
Do you require a certain level of participation in club projects from your junior members rather than allow them to just show up to run trains?
If you can give me a brief reply on any of those questions, or if you have other insight to share on the subject, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Dan
the Maryland & West Virginia Model RR Association at the Cumberland fairgrounds allows youth membership as long as a parent also becomes a member and is present along with the youth
like all membership, there is a probation period.
in my short time (2 years) with the club i saw one youth member turn 17 and become a full member. he is the son of one of a long time member and had been coming to events since he was about 5 years old.
i think operators of trains must be above a certain age (?), but there have been exceptions when there were too few operators and the youth was mature and responsible
there is currently a youth member who lives nearby and frequently visited the club by himself before becoming a member and was known by name to some of the members.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Thanks for the feedback Greg.
A bit of background, we are an older club and like many, a good number of our members are older themselves. A few years ago (just before Covid) the club moved a short distance to much nicer facilities. Now, we have had an influx of new members which have resulted in some growing pains - but that's a nice problem to have.
Recently, after virtually no new youth members for years, we are seeing a jump in younger people interested in the club. A few have parents who will join and that's a bonus but a few others want to join without active parent involvement.
Current club policy requires parents of under age members to be present, but not join themselves. New youth members are asked to attend a few sessions prior to filling out an application and then if they do, they need to be interviewed by three senior members. At the end of six months a final decision to allow them to become full fledged members is made by the board. We did have one young man not make it due to his his behavior but the decision to not allow him to continue was made well before his six months were up.
Our current youth membership age is 17-14 with exceptions made for slightly younger (down to 12) if they are deemed to be extra mature and responsible - we currently have two who fall into that category. If an adult joins and wants to also have their child participate then both must join and pay dues and the parent is primarily responsible for their good behavior. There is no lower age restriction in those situations.
The concern we have is we do not want to become a "youth centered" club - that is not our main mission. We are not the Boy Scouts nor 4-H. Nor do we want the prevalence of too many kids to impact the experience of some of the older members ("Hey you kids, get off my layout!"). However, many of us also clearly see our young members as the future of the hobby and we want to see the interest in model railroading grow. Plus, a select group of us within the club have an interest in helping to mentor young hobbiests.
So, some of our questions are;
Should we cap the number of young members we allow to join?
Do we tighten up the vetting process so we don't simply become a place for parents to come bring their kids to "play with trains".
Should we stand firm at 14 or continue to make exceptions if warranted?
And how do we counter the somewhat entrenched attitude among some of our older, long term members, that we "don't need to change"? A sentiment I suspect my be common in many clubs, but one that is also a sure path to any club's eventual demise - at least IMO.
I would sincerely appreciate any observations, feedback, or suggestions any of you might have. We would like to learn from the experiences of other clubs so we can try to avoid potential pitfalls but also incorporate successful strategies and policies. We recognize the need for growth, and change, but we also want to proceed in a measured and smart way.
I would not have youth "members" at all. I would invite young people to visit with an adult pretty much any time. What benefits does membership offer for a child?
Encourage interest by anybody and everybody in our hobby. Welcome visitors.
You do not want the liability of hosting minors without a parent or guardian. Having youth members is like running a boy-scout troop. The kids need supervision and they need to be protected. To do it right, you should have background investigations of all adult members. It is a sad reality in today's age.
For background: I taught 8th grade (14 year olds) science for three years.
https://nscale4by8.github.io/nscale4x8/
i forgot to say that any new applicant needs to attend 3 business meetings and is then voted into the club for a probationary period.
again, i've not been a member long and haven't seen the voting process that much. the only member i saw the hint of reluctance for voting in was because he hadn't been seen very much.
i can easily imagine that if some youth attends some meetings and act immaturely, he would not be voted in or would be rejected after a probation period.
gregc i forgot to say that any new applicant needs to attend 3 business meetings and is then voted into the club for a probationary period. again, i've not been a member long and haven't seen the voting process that much. the only member i saw the hint of reluctance for voting in was because he hadn't been seen very much. i can easily imagine that if some youth attends some meetings and act immaturely, he would not be voted in or would be rejected after a probation period.
Yeah, as I mentioned, that occurred in our club not long ago. We had a father and son (14 going on 6) combo that we had to cut loose. Turns out the kid had a lot of behavior issues and dad was hoping his interest in trains would be a positive outlet for him. Several of us could definitely sympathize, but the kid's behavior was so out of control (even with dad present) that the enjoyment of the other members, not to mention the safety of the layout, structures, and locomotives/rolling stock were in jeopardy.
It was that experience which caused us to reevaluate our youth policy - which turned out to be a good thing since six months later we had this influx of young members interested in the club. We now just need to fine tune our new policies.
I know what I am about to say is dated, to say the least, but here goes.
This story starts in 1967.
I started in this hobby at the age of 10 with lots of help from my father, but he was not interested in joining a club. At that age I was in a youth club sponsered by the local hobby shop for a few years.
By age 14 I was working at that hobby shop and was visiting the local adult model railroad club on a regular basis. (That club is small, about 20 members, but well published in MR over these many years and still in existence in the same location with the same layout)
They did not normally take youth members without a parent as a member, but about the time I turned 15 they deemed me "mature" enough and by 16 I even had a key to the building.
I was able to learn from some true masters in this hobby, and remained a member until adult life moved me a little far away for regular attendance in my late 20's.
I was able to contribute both modeling and the care and maintenance of the clubhouse, including the upgrading the electrical service in the now 120 year old building.
Now, at age 66, I stop in at that club when I can, it is about an hour from my home.
I say find a way to support those young people who demonstrate real interest.
Sheldon
I am the adult volunteer fo a 4-H model railroad club. The upper age limit for 4-H youth membership is 19. All adult volunteers must pass a criminal background check. Parents can attend meetings, and have been helpful. The club was actually founded by a high school sophmore, although members tended to be middle schoolers. While I am something of a moderator, the youth vote on, and make the decisions. We had a large estate donation of HO track, equipment and buildings. We went with a modular set-up with 24" x 24" modules on 2" foamboard. We displayed our layout at the county fair and at a toy shop. The final display was a half dozen modules plus the corner modules, or about 6' x 12', before the pandemic shut us down. We have found new space and are reorganizing. Its amazing what the kids will do when left to their own devices.
Hi Everyone,
This is in the FWIW dept.
I joined our local club when I was thirteen. We had a membership of about 8 on a good day including me. The adults put up with me and I learned a lot from them. Admittedly, it was a small group, a small town, and a completely different world back then. I offer this to show that young people can learn and can be even eager to learn. It depends on the kid. They are a least worth considering and can contribute well, if guided.
Jim (with a nod to Mies Van Der Rohe)
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
NScale4x8 I would not have youth "members" at all. I would invite young people to visit with an adult pretty much any time. What benefits does membership offer for a child? Encourage interest by anybody and everybody in our hobby. Welcome visitors. You do not want the liability of hosting minors without a parent or guardian. Having youth members is like running a boy-scout troop. The kids need supervision and they need to be protected. To do it right, you should have background investigations of all adult members. It is a sad reality in today's age. For background: I taught 8th grade (14 year olds) science for three years.
We have found there are generally two scenarios where a youth might be involved in a club;
A. As the son or daughter of a member
B. As a member themselves, but the parent isn't a member.
In either case, a parent HAS to accompany them when the child is at the club or at club functions - that's is a non-negotiable item.
Of course, the easy route would simply be to not allow anyone under the age of 18 to be a member. But that is not the goal we are aiming for. We feel that having youth participate in the hobby at a club level is important. The challenge, as we see it, is how to structure that while also being mindful of the reasons many of our existing members joined the club: to have a relaxed and enjoyable venue to run trains, works on aspects of the hobby, learn new skills and share those they have, and enjoy the company of other like minded hobbyists.
True, things today are vastly different than they were 40, 30, or 20 years ago. And sadly, they will likely be worse than they are now many years out from now. And by then, not having any youth members may then be the norm. But, we are not there yet and we feel a reasonable effort should be made to accommodate young enthusiasts. It the "how" of that we are trying to negotiate.
My professional background is an elementary school teacher of 31 years (now retired). Over the span of those years I taught grades sixth, fourth, third, and second. And at age 70 I definately qualifiy as being one of the old coots, but not the oldest. As for being "curmudgeonly", it sort of depends on the day and who you talk to.
NScale4x8 What benefits does membership offer for a child?
What benefits does membership offer for a child?
Education? Guidance? Motivation? Hands on experience with all aspects of the hobby?
In my opinion, the OP's description of club policy seems fine, but I would add one caveat: There always needs to be more than one member who is willing to take on the mentorship role for youth members. Without that, I don't think they'll stay as members.
A side note regarding this topic: if you dont take youth members, turn them down in a polite and considerate manner. Being a rude curmudgeon can turn them off to the club and the hobby for a long time. Speaking from personal experience.
"In either case, a parent HAS to accompany them when the child is at the club or at club functions - that's is a non-negotiable item."
It is a sad commentary on the state of this society that a responsable 15, 16, or 17 year old must be treated like this. And yet we wonder why so many of them fail to "launch" at a reasonable age.
I would have never been able to live the story I told above - my parents were very supportive, but could not afford the time that kind of rule would have required. I was not a spoiled only child.
And I left something out of the story I told in my earlier post. That first hobby shop I worked at, when the owners decided to move their business to Harpers Ferry West Virginia and build an HO scale diorama of John Browns raid, my parents allowed me to travel with them and spend the entire summer working in Harpers Ferry to set up the new store and build the diorama in the summer of my 16th birthday. There were rules, but basically I lived on my own with a co-worker who was also 16. We got second jobs in a local restaurant, made friends and had a great summer. And nobody ended up dead, in jail, or in a hospital.....
When I returned home at the end of the summer, a new hobby shop had opened not far from our home. I went right in and explained my previous experiance and asked for a job - I worked there into my early 20's and became the assistant manager in charge of the train department for a time. The owner of that shop, now retired many years, is still one of my dearest friends.
ATLANTIC CENTRALIt is a sad commentary on the state of this society that a responsable 15, 16, or 17 year old must be treated like this.
It isn't that we're being overprotective of a late teen because we're trying to coddle them. We're protecting ourselves. The last thing anyone needs is a life obliterating false accusation that we or someone affiliated with us has done something untowards and illegal. Or, worse, someone we thought we thought we could trust does and now the rest of us have a target on us. It is a world where I, a perfectly normal 40 year old guy, feel uncomfortable handing out Halloween candy because you get looked at like a weirdo for being friendly to stranger children. I'd love to be friendlier to younger people when I'm at one of our shows, but I know that I have to careful because you have no idea how someone is going to see it.
NittanyLion ATLANTIC CENTRAL It is a sad commentary on the state of this society that a responsable 15, 16, or 17 year old must be treated like this. It isn't that we're being overprotective of a late teen because we're trying to coddle them. We're protecting ourselves. The last thing anyone needs is a life obliterating false accusation that we or someone affiliated with us has done something untowards and illegal. Or, worse, someone we thought we thought we could trust does and now the rest of us have a target on us. It is a world where I, a perfectly normal 40 year old guy, feel uncomfortable handing out Halloween candy because you get looked at like a weirdo for being friendly to stranger children. I'd love to be friendlier to younger people when I'm at one of our shows, but I know that I have to careful because you have no idea how someone is going to see it.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL It is a sad commentary on the state of this society that a responsable 15, 16, or 17 year old must be treated like this.
I understand, my comment applies both ways - a sad commentary on the state of this society.
I agree with both of these points.
It IS a sad commentary (but certainly not one that applies to only OUR society) and one we would like nothing more than to not have to deal with. Unfortunately, even in the "good old days", I suspect abuse was common, it was just not talked about and was hidden behind the victim's guilt and shame, or out of fear. One only needs to look back at the allegations that have come out concerning religious institutions stretching back decades. Just because we didn't hear about it, doesn't mean it wasn't occurring.
The world today is indeed not the one many of us grew up in. I had a fairly long list of neighbors whose lawns I would mow when in I was around 11-12. When was the last time you saw a kid that age mowing somebody's lawn - even for their parents?
But yes, in our case requiring parents to be at the club when their child is is very much about not wanting our club members to be put in a position where a false accusation could be made by a young adult. We don't expect the parents to be hovering over their child when at the club, in fact we would prefer they don't because it would be counterproductive to the idea of a youth being engaged in an activity on the own, or possibly working in a mutually beneficial project with a senior member. The parents are free to go sit and read a book or chat with another member if they wish. We just feel that having them in the building or on site when their child is present is the smart and prudent thing to require.
Thanks for the replies everyone - very much appreciate those of you who took the time to respond.
In retrospect, I feel we have a pretty good handle on the issue. The board is having a special meeting this Wednesday to try and hammer out some final details and during that meeting brief input from the members will be allowed. In addition to that, we have sent out a short survey to the members on the issue, the results of which will be used by the board to determine how we might proceed. Right now, consensus indicates putting a lower age cap of 12 years old (if deemed to be exceptionally responsible by the 3 interviewing board members) and a numbers gap of around six. We feel this can be applied for the first six months of the new year and then be reevaluated.
The results may not be perfect but hopefully they should come across as reasonable and fair to new youth member (and their parents) when they are presented with them, as well as assure most of the older, long time members, that the club is not going to start looking like a day care facility.
reasearchhoundBut yes, in our case requiring parents to be at the club when their child is is very much about not wanting our club members to be put in a position where a false accusation could be made by a young adult.
Having gone through this, I agree 100%.
reasearchhoundThe parents are free to go sit and read a book or chat with another member if they wish.
Okay, as long as you don't fall into the " we've got to go to the drug store/market/what have you store and will be right back" trap. Been there, experienced that before also.
[quote user="reasearchhound"]
Right now, consensus indicates putting a lower age cap of 12 years old (if deemed to be exceptionally responsible by the 3 interviewing board members) /quote]
I don't agree with this. What will be the criteria to determine "exceptionally responsible"? Sounds to me like individual opinion, rather than evaluation of facts. Someone can say they were discriminated against...you allowed him but not me because someone doesn't like me.
Better to have a hard and fast rule. (don't ask me how I know this)
[quote user="maxman"]
reasearchhound Right now, consensus indicates putting a lower age cap of 12 years old (if deemed to be exceptionally responsible by the 3 interviewing board members) /quote] I don't agree with this. What will be the criteria to determine "exceptionally responsible"? Sounds to me like individual opinion, rather than evaluation of facts. Someone can say they were discriminated against...you allowed him but not me because someone doesn't like me. Better to have a hard and fast rule. (don't ask me how I know this)
Well, as I indicated, that is how the survey is leaning but actually implmenting it will take a bit of tact. But still, most clubs likely have a process in place by which new members are reviewed before being accepted - it would certainly be foolish not to. Not everyone who applies will be a good fit for a club (and vice versa) and that type of call has to be made by senior club members. As long as it is not being decided by just one member, but a group, it should end up being relatively fair.
We have already had to cut loose one potential youth member (age 14) who came in and displayed a great deal of disrespect for the other members, the layout, and the rules of behavior the club has in place.
We will simply use the same vetting and approval perameters for our youth members as we do with adults.
I am a member of a very large club (10,000 sq. ft., 60+ members) that was est. in 1938.In 1990, I became a youth group member of the club when I was 15, the same year my dad joined the club. Over the next couple years, we had a total of about 10 kids in the group. Dues were cheap, I think $5 a month, and was used to build and maintain our own 4x8' HO pike. Youth meetings were once a month on an "off" night, so we had the club to ourselves (plus the one adult member who ran the group). We would run trains, talk, or work on our 4x8. We were allowed to run trains during train shows and would help out during operation sessions.Our youth group ended when the one person dedicated to running it left the club for a better job elsewhere.I think you had to be of High School age to join our youth group.Today, we have no youth group (and haven't since 1992). You must be 18 years old to apply to be a member. We have done so to protect the club legally. Remember that if someone sues the club, the directors can be held personally liable. We tried to re-start a youth group about 15 years ago, but no members wanted to be in charge of it. The most active members we have are too busy building the club layout to watch kids, and the other members can't be bothered.If you are under 18 and want to participate at our club, you can get a parent or guardian to join and you can be their guest. The adult is responsible for the kid and must be present at all times when the kid is at the club. We currently have one father-son duo, and few grandfather/grandson pairs.To join the club as a regular member, an adult must pay the application fee and then has at least 3 months and a maximum of 9 months to show up 18 times and do something from a list of tasks (they pay no dues during this time). These include building a freight car kit, making a number of trees or make a building kit, participate in operations, learn the layout and how to use a DCC throttle, attend a business meeting, wire a Tortoise switch machine, hand lay 4-feet of track, etc. We think this gives applicants a well-rounded education in how to be model railroader.After a member gets voted in, there are no requirements other than dues, but you'd be missing out. Like any club, you get out of it what you put into it.FWIW, of all the youth group members we've ever had (going back to the early-1980s), there's only two of us in the club today (and only five of us ever became full adult members).Sheldon,I was working alone at my parent's used bookstore at 14 years old. reasearchhound,Not for nothing, but I never saw anyone ever mow anyone else's lawn in my neighborhood, and that's going back to 1980s. It was a point of pride to do it yourself. But I do remember kids going door to door with snow shovels in the winter. My sister and I were not allowed to mow our own lawn until we could reach the brake pedal on the garden tractor. Nowadays, it seems most of my neighbors pay landscapers to do it all.
As a follow up: the board met and voted to set the minimum age for youth membership at 12 years old. It was felt that by then a more serious appreciation of the hobby may exist compared to much younger kids who just may want to "play with trains". Setting it at a higher age, such as 16 was viewed as counter productive since at that age, many kids who have been interested in trains may likely be drawn away from the hobby by other interests. This limit will apply to both youth who wish to join but whose parents do not have an interest, as well as the kids of adult members who want to bring in their kids. Those members will be allowed to bring in their kids, regardless of age, as a guest at our once a month Wednesday night run session - but they will be expected to monitor their kids' behavior at all times. The other Wednesdays are taken up by workshops, work nights, OPs sessions, and meetings.
The board also voted to cap the number of youth members at eight.These decisions will be open to board review at anytime, but a review will be required at a date no later than six months from now where a decision may be made at that time to modify them - or to leave them as is.