Hello all I bought the Proto 2000 Series E8A engine from Ebay,A friend of mine said the gear wheels are defective & they will splt apart. Has anyone here heard of this issue & my friend told me to replace them with Walther's. Diesel replacement wheels I looked them up,They look just like Athearn metal wheels please let me know Thank You.
Split gears were an issue with some early Proto 2000 locomotives. Walthers does make replacement gears for them. Athearn gears also fit them. It's a very simple swap out. Just be careful when removing the plastic gear cover on the trucks.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Okay thanks for the reply helful info,Are there any photos of these engines with the wheel cover off? So I can see how they look like I will not get my engine till the? 26th of this month.
For a long time LifeLike offered free wheel replacements when the split axle problem because known. Walthers continued that practice when they acquired LifeLike but now that the engines with the problem are decades and decades old, you have to buy then. Walthers was not the only source -- the original LifeLike manufacturer essentially made the drive gear a clone of the old Athearn so in many cases as Tom points out above Athearn parts were also a drop in replacement. The "good" news is that Walthers often has those wheel sets on sale in their monthly flyer.
There was another problem with the early LifeLike Proto2000 engines and that was excessive grease and the use of a grease that became rock hard over time. Many purchasers of LifeLike Proto2000s, new or used, that let them sit on the shelf before finally running them burned out the motors because they didn't realize that the gear train was frozen shut with rock hard grease. So carefully remove the plastic gear cover, as Tom says, make sure you clean out the old excessive brown grease, and regrease lightly. If the engine then "clicks" when you run it you've got the split gear problem.
For all these problems it is almost impossible to now describe to people how exciting the introduction of the Proto2000 series was at the time. And most shocking of all was not just the quality of the trains, but the source: LifeLike?! The paper mache tunnel people?
Dave Nelson
Note that the earlier runs of the L-L E units had truck sideframes with separate journal boxes. The wheelsets had axle protrusions to engage these journal boxes (middle wheelset here:
Proto Wheels by Edmund, on Flickr
I seem to recall that the E units used a nine tooth gear whereas the Geeps and other four-axle engines had eight tooth, not real sure on this, could be other way around, but the E unit gears are not the same as the Athearn 60024 gear.
This should work for you IF you indeed have the split gear problem:
https://www.walthers.com/replacement-geared-diesel-wheelsets-fits-early-proto-2000-r-e6-7-8-9-pkg-3
Many of my early-run Life-Like E 6, 7 and 8s are still running on the original gears. In my experience the problem was less pervasive on the six-axle Es. I have had a few with split gears but not nearly as many as with the four axle Geeps and FAs.
Try running the engine on a test track (do you have an ammeter handy?) and listen for any problems, squealing from motor shaft or worm shaft bearings, thumping from cracked axle gears. Sometimes the gear crack is so bad that the motor will simply jam up.
Good Luck, Ed
Thanks for the help all, Ed I will have to wait till I get more $$$ I spent all of my $$$ on this engine I bought. Again thanks for the help.
The geared axles come in pairs and are pretty reasonably priced - especially when on sale. I've replaced the axles in both my Proto 2000 GP7s. They've run great ever since.
Hello Metrolink
Cool going on your P2KE-unit. What road name and paint scheme is it in?
Good advice from Ed, as always.
The LL P2K E's are easy to disassemble, but take your time. Once the drive and gears are clean and lubricated, give her a test run. Hopefully your friend took good care of it.
Regarding gears, my experience may be the exception: I have a fleet of LL P2K locomotives. Four of my Geeps have had split axles that I had to replace. Yet I have 11 powered E's (a mix of 6,7's, and 8's) and, so far, no cracked axles. They are smooth runners and each can pull 11-car passenger trains with no issues. To play it safe, I'm ordering 3 packs of the replacement axles from Walthers for the "just in clase" scenarios.
It should be pointed out that on the "con" side, the handrails and grabs are very flimsy and break easily. However, metal replacements from other manufacturers are available.
BTW: There should be a "Door opener/closer" wire included in the box that enables you to actuate the cab and body doors.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I bought a Rock Island E8A Antonio.
Good one!
Are you modeling some of The Rockets?
MetrolinkFan I bought a Rock Island E8A Antonio.
Yes I am I'll have to print my five silver passenger cars, some Rick Island names to put on my passenger cars. I was going to paint them in all red,but spray paint is way to expensive to buy. $13.00 a can do I said forget it. Maybe one day I'll find the passenger cars in all red,and I have E8A shell I painted in primer grey was going to paint that to, not now I'll look for some Rock Island E8A all in red. And save me some $$$ to buy a shell or a powered engine.
MetrolinkFan A friend of mine said the gear wheels are defective & they will splt apart.
A friend of mine said the gear wheels are defective & they will splt apart.
Rich
Alton Junction
Normally its the 4-axle truck gears that crack and not the 6-axle gears. The 4-axle gears will be cracked now just by age. I agree with Rich, if your loco runs fine or there is no sign of cracking by now, then its likely going to be ok.
The 4-axle was designed from Athearn Blue Box axles and the Chinese got the inner diameter slightly wrong, causing the axles to split simply sitting in the box. OTOH, the 6 axle trucks typically are not the same as Athearn trucks and may in fact be designed from KATO trucks as their template. I beleive that the LL P2K 4-axle and 6-axle trucks are not the same animal, and the 4 axle variety are the notorious crackers.
- Douglas
Thank you for the replies & helpful into I hope to get my engine soon I will post photos of it. Well dont you just hate it when you wait for something you want,you buy it the later after you have bought it.Then you see something you were looking for. At the last minute,Well I found two Rock Island E8A's in the all red.Paint scheme,But hey I did really want the 1st Rock Island E8A with the.Maroon paint scheme and the cream white.Hers is the one I found on ebay this moring.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285329288184?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20220705100511%26meid%3Da6841e093589447ea1b76193da0ace79%26pid%3D101524%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D285329288184%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2%26brand%3DAHM%252FRivarossi&_trksid=p2380057.c101524.m146925&_trkparms=pageci%3A88dcfe00-0c5d-11ee-8100-9eeb1aa744c1%7Cparentrq%3Ac4e6bd601880aaea8997c621ffff6c38%7Ciid%3A1
Oops Ill post a pic of the one I bought I just tried the ebay link it dont bring up he one I got.
I have a pair of the LL/P2K geeps. They were purchased a long time ago, and sure enough, I had the cracked gear problem in each of them, so I got enough axles for all the wheels, which fixed the problem.
I had already had the shell off to add decoders, so while taking care of that I had already removed any old grease from the gear towers and replaced it. The axle covers are removed from the bottom by carefully popping them off with a small screwdriver. They easily pop back on.
When you order the replacements, at the first sign of trouble replace all the axles. If one goes bad, others are likely to as well, so save yourself the trouble of doing it twice. And, if you seriously plan to order another engine in the future, order enough axles for all of them. These axles were originally supplied free, but that's in the past now, and you would hate to be stuck with one of those "supply chain problems" that sidelines an engine.
The symptom, by the way, is a clicking or thumping sound. I think of an engine walking around like a pirate with a wooden leg. With a good magnifying lamp, you might be able to identify a cracked gear, but it's not easy for an old guy like me to even see the tiny crack that causes this.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have a E8A and a GP-7 bought used the A did not have cracked gears but the GP-7 did.
Russell
Here is the Rock Island E8A I got hopeto see it come soon in the Mail. https://ibb.co/7tns1BL
Hey thanks guys about the info on Athearn axles fitting these. They looked very close - i was wondering if they would work.
The Walthers replacements are drop in perfect.
I found the axle cover plate very hard to remove, and the latches flimsy enough to break easily. Cant stress enough to be careful here!
Thanks for the info!
PMR
I probably have a dozen or so P2K both diesel and steam. The only cracked axle gears I had was in the GPs 4 axle units. It's a good idea to disassemble it and clean and grease the bronze bearings on the axles and worm gears. While not a huge issue. I will shim the worms to minimize end play. But that's probably just me. When you have the trucks apart, look for mold flash especially around the execution pin area. You don't need them to break off and get jammed in the gears. P2K did a great job but sometimes they miss a little here or there.
Good luck and keep railroading.
Pete.
PM Railfan I found the axle cover plate very hard to remove, and the latches flimsy enough to break easily. Cant stress enough to be careful here!
Dose anyone have any photos of the trucks where the latches are? Would be some help for me to see photos. I cannot find any I looked on google no luck.Thank
The Life-Like runs of the E units udes a 'hinged' three-axle truck. A quite clever design IMHO, so there are two covers on each truck. I don't have a photo handy but I'll post one later — much to do today.
Later, Walthers designed a new truck with no hinge and one cover. Plus they went with skewed gearing. Very smooth and relatively quiet, actually.
Walthers_E7-gearcase by Edmund, on Flickr
This is the cover for the PA, somewhat typical of other L-L locos:
L-L_PA-gear-cover by Edmund, on Flickr
The pins retain the plastic truck sideframes.
LifeLike_PA-parts2 by Edmund, on Flickr
gmpullman I don't have a photo handy but I'll post one later — much to do today.
A complete E7-8-9 truck on the left. Note the split between the two covers. There are no pins protruding from the cover to engage the side frames, they slip over horizontal pins and, believe it or not, are stapled to each other with a metal, common staple.
LL_Proto-E8 truck by Edmund, on Flickr
Note that I show the wrong short cover above. Must have been in a hurry. The two-axle cover has a 'front-back' orientation (see below). Be sure to get it right on reassembly. The clips are slightly different than the other L-L engines and are at least a little bit more robust.
[This is a corrected photo with the short and long cover in proper orientation]
LL_Proto-E8 truck-cover by Edmund, on Flickr
Note the brass rivet. This is the pivot point for the single axle portion of the truck. This design may have been costlier to make but I believe led to much better tracking as one axle was sprung and would flex with track undulations.
LL_Proto-E8 truck-wheelset by Edmund, on Flickr
Keep in mind that your E8 might just run fine right out of the box. If you don't detect any glaring issues when you first apply a 'little' power just go ahead and run them in after cleaning the wheels.
I recently pulled a pair of NYC E7s that I've had in storage since 1993 and they ran very well. These engines are inherently noisy. When I ran them in DC some years ago they had a satisfactory growl that could be mistaken for the sound of twin 567s. Their gearing was somewhat sloppy and I've also found a great deal of sloppyness in the slip-joint drive shafts and universals. The nature of the beasts.
Thanks Edmund for the photos and information on the powered trucks very helpful thanks,maybe next week or week after that. My engine will come soon. cheers to all who replied to my question I posted here.
I would like to echo previous comments regarding cleaning out the old grease and making sure the worm gear bearings/shaft are rotating freely. I purchased several different 1990s to early 2000s Proto 2000 locomotives off of ebay and many of them had hard grease and sticky green coating on the bearings.
I also had squealing coming from these bearings, even from one that didn't have the green gunk. Cleaning and oiling them helped, but the squealing would come back in a couple days. I gave up and replaced them with Athearn bearings which solved the problem.
Chris
cscannon222 but the squealing would come back in a couple days.
I would try oiling the motor bearings first then worm bearings if it doesn't stop.
I haven't had any issues with the worm bearings on my Athearn locomotives, but I have had three RTR locomotives that had the squealing and vibrations from the motor.
Thank you to everyone who has replied to this post with great information. I've got several Proto locos and some do need this repair. I also have some new ones that have sat on the shelf for over 10 years (some longer!) that may need a good cleaning if I ever get around to running them.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Hi crew,
I don't think this was mentioned but, out of curiosity, which lubricants do you use?
On other forums I've read of some modelers preferring to use thin greases for gears and bearings while some others prefer to use oil only that's injected with a hypo-needle. I used Labelle 106 for the gears in one of my HO Geeps.