So Athearn is introducing a new F7 for their roundhouse range
https://www.pwrs.ca/announcements/view.php?ID=20739
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymBqA9jr5wI
from my understanding, this is all new tooling. Judging by the footage of Athearn Booth, it looks to be a whole new shell, which makes me wonder. Is Athearn finally killing off the Globe F7 from like Fifty Years ago?
With this new beginner F7 coming soon, is Athearn going to end production of the Globe F7? The tooling is really outdated and probably at the end of its life. So I imagine that this new F7 means that the Globe tooling is being retired.
Yes, Jim Wiggin has talked about the 'new' F7s in Athearn's "Train Tuesday" YouTube shows, most recently 4-25. He stated that the old F was worn out and going forward only the new version(s) would be produced.
(102) Train Tuesday 4/25/23 - YouTube
Which brings up three additional questions:
1) I've heard talk over the years that the window frames and nose curvatures for the old F unit shells were out of whack. Are these being addressed?
2) Will the new shells be interchangeable with the old ones (in terms of fit and attachments to an old chassis?
3) If so, is Athearn anticipating offering an additional run of shells-only, as replacements (whether painted or undecorated)? I suspect that they could sell quite a few of them (particularly if painted) as there are lots of upgrades out there on layouts (remotored or now with decoders) whose owners could easily raise their locos another level or two. I have five that would get the treatment and might be willing to spend up to twenty bucks for a better body. (Alright, having put it that way, send in your wisecracks!
Just thinking out loud . . .
Attuvian1 John
According to the article, the chassis and body are all new and have a different method of fitting, allowing someone to change them to a de-skirted appearance. I'd say that means new shells won't easily fit the old chassis.
Considering the Globe tooling is now almost 70 years old, it really lasted a long time! No other plastic model in HO that I know of has had such a long run!
_________________________________________________________________
Thanks, Darth. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Certainly for me. But perhaps also for Athearn. I really wonder just how many updated shells they might be able to sell for that old but otherwise very reliable chassis. The old "superweights" made it even better.
John
Attuvian1 I've heard talk over the years that the window frames and nose curvatures for the old F unit shells were out of whack
Don't know the answer to this, other than to say that I don't think that there has been an E or F unit made where someone hasn't seen fit to criticize something about nose or windows.
maxman Attuvian1 I've heard talk over the years that the window frames and nose curvatures for the old F unit shells were out of whack Don't know the answer to this, other than to say that I don't think that there has been an E or F unit made where someone hasn't seen to fit to criticize something about nose or windows.
Don't know the answer to this, other than to say that I don't think that there has been an E or F unit made where someone hasn't seen to fit to criticize something about nose or windows.
I can pretty confidently say that the Bluebox F7 is really off, the nose isn't that great but the windshields are really bad. They are extremely boxy and way too large, it's a very noticeable aspect of the Globe F7 and for me at least, is the main spotting feature.
Great Northern Fan 54 I can pretty confidently say that the Bluebox F7 is really off, the nose isn't that great but the windshields are really bad. They are extremely boxy and way too large, it's a very noticeable aspect of the Globe F7 and for me at least, is the main spotting feature.
True, but you couldn't get better one in plastic until the Stewart F units came out almost 30 years later (not counting the Atlas/Roco one since it was an FP7). The Varney F3 shell was based on the old out of scale metal body, the Marx F2 was the picture of awful, the Mantua/Tyco F7 was a near carbon copy of the Globe shell, the late Penn Line/Life-Like F7 had a very toy-like windshield and the headlights were way off, and the Bachmann F9 wasn't even trying to be well scaled (also, which came first, the Bachmann shell or the Gem brass shell?).
Highliner had decent F's and accessories, including a window fix for the Athearn, but I can't find his web site any more. Too bad.
It looks some of usually train supply places have some of the Highliner parts.
Mike.
My You Tube
Very welcoming news!
An additional informational detail is that Athearn will be offering Undecorated versions. This means southeastern modelers can, thankfully, skip the step of purchasing a painted model and chemically paint stripping it. I regretted not purchasing the SCL F7's that Athearn produced in their Genesis line years back. Currently the ones that pop up on ebay fetch some wallet crunching prices.
Of course once the new F's hit the market, modelers will immediately compare them with the Highliner shells. But from what iis shown on the YouTube vid, the new shell is a beauty and will, hopefully, be affordable.
Only question I have is if any versions will be produced without the pointed roof overhang.
Looking forward to these new classics
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
And the F7-B? (or did I miss something)
I'd be curious to know more about an undecorated dual light 'shell' only.
As for the 'Globe' version being gone for good.... that's a good question I join with you in asking. I certainly haven't heard.
PMR
mbinsewiHighliner had decent F's and accessories, including a window fix for the Athearn, but I can't find his web site any more. Too bad.
I have an A-B-B-A set of Highliner shell kits. The original intention was to build a set of F2s with them.
If Athearn owners really wanted a shell upgrade, these would have sold one hundred times more than they did.
I have something like a dozen Stewart/Kato F3s and F7s now. For my needs, these are the perfect locomotive.
I also have a set of Hallmark brass FTA/FTB. These were rebuilt by the previous owner with can motor drive, and they run as good as the Stewart/Kato models.
All my F unit needs are met.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Been a long time modeler. I won't miss the classic 1960's-70's "global" F-unit shell. They won't become extinct anytime soon since there are literally hundreds of them (if not thousands) collectiveily for sale on the secondary market and in private hands operating on layouts. I'm not criticizing the current / past owners but the huge "Baldwin Centipede" style windshields bothered me.
Kevin, you mentioned the 1990's-early 2000's production Kato powered F7's which are excellent runners. You are fortunate in your situation in having made the smart move in buying them instead of procrastinating......like I did. I was considering buying a couple of "Stewart-Kays" to repaint & decal them into the SCL scheme, but will now wait for the new Athearn Undecorated versions.
I hope/plan to do two.
SeeYou190 mbinsewi Highliner had decent F's and accessories, including a window fix for the Athearn, but I can't find his web site any more. Too bad. I have an A-B-B-A set of Highliner shell kits. The original intention was to build a set of F2s with them. If Athearn owners really wanted a shell upgrade, these would have sold one hundred times more than they did.
mbinsewi Highliner had decent F's and accessories, including a window fix for the Athearn, but I can't find his web site any more. Too bad.
I think Athearn purchased the Highliner tooling and used it for its Genesis models.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 SeeYou190 mbinsewi Highliner had decent F's and accessories, including a window fix for the Athearn, but I can't find his web site any more. Too bad. I have an A-B-B-A set of Highliner shell kits. The original intention was to build a set of F2s with them. If Athearn owners really wanted a shell upgrade, these would have sold one hundred times more than they did. I think Athearn purchased the Highliner tooling and used it for its Genesis models.
Yes, Athearn Genesis F units are Highliner shells. Always have been. The guy who started the Highliner F unit shell project did the B unit first, could not afford to do the A unit. Athearn paid for the A unit tooling and made a deal with him allowing him to sell the shell kits and they got to use the shell for the Genesis line.
No surprise if he has closed up shop selling the shell kits.
It has become a RTR hobby apparently.
I model the 50's, I have a fair number of EMD F units. Most are Genesis and Intermountain.
But I do have one old ABA set of the Globe shells on remotored Athearn BB drives, with diesel dress up kits, GSB cab interiors, American Limited close coupling and diaphragms, and a number of other extra details.
While not completed, I also have an AB set with an FP7 kitbashed from two Athearn shells. And all the parts to complete them like the ABA set.
While they are not Genesis, Intermountain, Stewart or Proto, they don't look bad once the details are all in place. I will keep them, they can pull the paint off the walls.
Yes, the Globe tooling is about 70 years old - pretty good run, best model of an F unit we had for a long time in this hobby.
I don't worry myself with stuff like nose contours and windshield sizes - they are close enough. Have you ever seen the photos of how EMD built those noses? I doubt that any two of them were really the same......
It will be interesting to see this new model and see just how much the drive is changed - or not? I would not be surprised to find the old trucks, with better pickup wiring, in a new frame.
I just picked up an ABA set of Intermountain F7's lettered B&O at the train show in Timonium a week ago.
The YouTube video was amusing - the Globe tooling never had molded on handrails, it was always set up for wire ones to be added. That guy talked like that was some big new inovation.
For those of you who don't know, here is the short version of the Globe story.
Globe was a Chicago based company that made wood and metal freight car kits in the 40's. Athearn bought Globe sometime right around 1950. Athearn used the Globe name to introduce the plastic F7 and the plastic streamlined passenger car kits. They did not want to risk damaging their reputation if the plastic line was a flop.
But it turned out just the opposite. The F7 and the passenger cars were such a hit, Athearn could not wait to take credit for them and get the plastic freight car kits on the market.
Here is a GLOBE passenger car kit with instructions that say Athearn, as they switched the packaging over to Athearn.
Here is a pre Athearn GLOBE freight car kit:
And so it appears Athearn continues to be one of the leaders in this business, like Bachmann and Walthers, making trains for modelers of all skill levels and budgets.
Sheldon
AntonioFP45Kevin, you mentioned the 1990's-early 2000's production Kato powered F7's which are excellent runners. You are fortunate in your situation in having made the smart move in buying them instead of procrastinating......like I did.
I bought them all around 2008 when I could not get the 2-10-2 locomotives I wanted. I am glad to have them all.
How did that RS-1 get in there?
Over a decade later, I finally got my hands on one of the 2-10-2 models I wanted a fleet of.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhile not completed, I also have an AB set with an FP7 kitbashed from two Athearn shells. And all the parts to complete them like the ABA set.
My only FP7 is from Overland.
I'll bet the nose and windshields are all wrong.
I kinda procrastinated on the Steweys myself, but for entirely different reasons. Though the outcome is the same.... I regret not having bought more. Same goes for the Atlas FP7-A.
Kevin,
As I said, most of my F units are Genesis and Intermountain.
I don't have pictures of all of them.
In addition to the in progress Athearn BB FP7, I have two ABB sets of FP7's from Intermouintain, which is really the only "modern production" undecorated FP7 that has ever been readily available in high detail plastic.
My fleet of EMD F units, assembled or not:
B&O - ABA F7 - Intermountain
B&O - ABBA F3 - Intermountain
ACR - ABB FP7 (x2) - Intermoutain
ACR - ABBA F3 - Genesis
ACR - ABA F7 - Athearn BB rebuilt/detailed
ACR - AB FP7 - Athearn BB kitbashed/rebuilt/detailed
WM - ABA F7 - Genesis
C&O - ABA F7 - Proto2000
At this point, low price and perfect choice would be required to prompt me to buy any more F units. Especally considering the roster also includes a number of ALCO FA's.
PM RailfanSame goes for the Atlas FP7-A.
I don't have an Atlas FP7. I remember trying to buy a few examples on eBay, but they always went for more than I wanted to spend.
Then a good deal on that Overland model came along, problem solved.
Back to the original question, Athearn has addressed these questions/issues in depth in videos available their YouTube page.
(Scroll ahead to 12:00 mark.): (103) Train Tuesday 4/25/23 - YouTube
(Scroll ahead to 1:19:00): (103) Athearn Extra 2.4 - YouTube
Stix,
Thanks for posting the link. I was hoping that the version without the rear roof overhang would be produced (Phase II?).
But, with an undecorated shell, carefully filing and wet-sanding the sheetmetal overhang to a flat profile is not difficult.
Regarding windshields and nose. As a teen modeler, back in the day, I didn't even pay attention to the nose, but yet noticed the huge windshields due to my constantly looking through magazines with prototype photos back then.
When I bought my first Atlas FP-7 I eventually noticed that the windshields had, as a friend pointed out, an "Eyes Squinting Shut" look, LOL!. But I was a happy camper until, over the years, more accurate EMD covered wagon shells were produced. I really liked the Stewart shells.
I agree that no two prototype EMD Bulldog noses were exactly alike. But, imho, the windshields of the original HO Global shells definitely stand out.
I'm looking forward to the dual headlight version.
AntonioFP45 Stix, Thanks for posting the link. I was hoping that the version without the rear roof overhang would be produced (Phase II?). But, with an undecorated shell, carefully filing and wet-sanding the sheetmetal overhang to a flat profile is not difficult. Regarding windshields and nose. As a teen modeler, back in the day, I didn't even pay attention to the nose, but yet noticed the huge windshields due to my constantly looking through magazines with prototype photos back then. When I bought my first Atlas FP-7 I eventually noticed that the windshields had, as a friend pointed out, an "Eyes Squinting Shut" look, LOL!. But I was a happy camper until, over the years, more accurate EMD covered wagon shells were produced. I really liked the Stewart shells. I agree that no two prototype EMD Bulldog noses were exactly alike. But, imho, the windshields of the original HO Global shells definitely stand out. I'm looking forward to the dual headlight version.
The rear roof overhang was present until very late in F unit production. If I recall only a few F7's were built without it, and then all F9's lacked the overhang
Found it.
Only F7's after October of 1952 lacked the rear roof overhang. All F7's produced with 36" dynamic brake fans had the overhang. All F7's built after 10/52 had 48" DB fans and lacked the overhang which is essentially an F9 body. A very few units built between June and October 52 had 48" DB fans and still had the overhang. F9 production began in Jan 54. So this model would not be correct without the overhang, it has a 36" DB fan.
To overhang or to not overhang, that is the question.
Now that the overhang has been brought up, what exactly was its purpose?
maxman To overhang or to not overhang, that is the question. Now that the overhang has been brought up, what exactly was its purpose?
Streamlining, possibly better airflow along the roofline of multiple unit lashups. And it provided a bit of a drip edge effect at the doors for units without diaphragms.
SCL #388 F7A & SCL 394 F7B - No roof overhang. But I appreciate the information and will research it further.
RailPictures.Net Photo: SCL 388 Seaboard Coast Line EMD F7(A) at Richmond, Virginia by Marty Bernard
RailPictures.Net Photo: SCL 394B Seaboard Coast Line EMD F7(B) at Richmond, Virginia by Marty Bernard
AntonioFP45 SCL #388 F7A & SCL 394 F7B - No roof overhang. But I appreciate the information and will research it further. RailPictures.Net Photo: SCL 388 Seaboard Coast Line EMD F7(A) at Richmond, Virginia by Marty Bernard RailPictures.Net Photo: SCL 394B Seaboard Coast Line EMD F7(B) at Richmond, Virginia by Marty Bernard
And no dynamic brakes at all. So likely those locos were built after Oct 52.
Again, the new Athearn model has a 36" dynamic brake fan, so it would have had an overhang.
Thanks Sheldon,
I'm willing to:
1) Drill and ream out the 36" dynamic brake fan, plug the hole with styrene and fill it with body filler.
2) Gently file and wet-sand the overhang to a flush contour.
SCL can be a "hoot" of a road to model as even two units from the same ancestry road (i.e: Atlantic Coast Line) can have noticeable differences between them (especially units that were wreck repaired or rebuilt).
The challenge for me, after the Scalecoat II black paint has cured, will be applying those long pesky yellow stripes! I've done stripes before, but for me it can be tedious, even when using fine line tape as a guide. I'll make sure to be in a relaxed mood when it's time for that stage.
I think I'll be a happy camper as long as I can capture the basic, overall late 1960's appearance.
AntonioFP45 Thanks Sheldon, I'm willing to: 1) Drill and ream out the 36" dynamic brake fan and graft on a smooth styrene "sheet metal" cover. 2) Gently file and wet-sand the overhang to a flush contour. SCL can be a challenging road to model as even two units from the same ancestry road (i.e: Atlantic Coast Line) can have noticeable differences between them (especially units that were wreck repaired or rebuilt). The challenge for me, after the Scalecoat II black paint has cured, will be applying those long pesky yellow stripes! I've done stripes before, but for me it can be tedious, even when using fine line tape as a guide. I'll make sure to be in a relaxed mood when it's time for that stage. I think I'll be a happy camper as long as I can capture the basic, overall late 1960's appearance.
1) Drill and ream out the 36" dynamic brake fan and graft on a smooth styrene "sheet metal" cover.
SCL can be a challenging road to model as even two units from the same ancestry road (i.e: Atlantic Coast Line) can have noticeable differences between them (especially units that were wreck repaired or rebuilt).
OK, if I was going to all that trouble, I would be starting with a pair of Highliner kits. They come with the option of a panel for no dynamic brakes.
I realized they may be getting harder to find, but that is what my ACR F3's are built from, so they could be the F3 version I want.
Didn't Genesis or Intermountain do Seaboard F units at some point?
https://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/49068.htm
Sheldon, yes.
However, whenever Highliner kits popped up on ebay, they'd go quickly. Ironically I think that it was some of my southeastern modeler friends that were among the bidders snatching them up!
Genesis & Intermountain SCL F's were beautiful. I should be wearing a dunce cap for having procrastinated and foolilshly thinking "Ah no biggie........they sold out so we'll see another run!". But, as modelers point out to me "You know that if it's Santa Fe or the other goodl ol' boys from the west or north.....no problem........ you'll get tired of seeing em'. But Southeastern? Well.........we wish you the best, buddy!"
When an SCL version does pop up on ebay, as the bids continue climbing towards the $300 mark, my budget says "Don't even think about it pal!".
So I have to go for what I can get whether it is Athearn's new units or older used "Stewart-Kays" that are (hopefully) in good condition. I'm not complaining as it is my own fault.
I learned my lesson, which is why I did not wait long after the SDP40F and the newly tooled Atlas U36B were produced.