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Do any of you run Horn Hook/Kadee #5 transition rolling stock?

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Do any of you run Horn Hook/Kadee #5 transition rolling stock?
Posted by philo426 on Monday, March 13, 2023 1:46 PM

I know Horn Hook couplers are obsolete but I  do use them on certain older Athearn rolling stock because they do hold the cars securely together .I put a Kadee #5 on one end and just leave the horn hook coupler on the other for the transition box car.Do any of you do the same?Also when were the horn hooks phased out? 

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Posted by Pruitt on Monday, March 13, 2023 1:49 PM

I used to years ago before I retrofitted all my rolling stock with Kadees. Worked fine, but it was a temporary measure while I did the conversion to my fleet a few cars at a time.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, March 13, 2023 2:01 PM

For most rolling stock, swapping out couplers only takes a few minutes per car, so I basically did them all years ago, except for a few old metal Varney cars, and most of those are even done now as well.  Then I replaced all the plastic wheelsets with metal.

So no, I never ran a transition car like that.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by dennis461 on Monday, March 13, 2023 2:10 PM

Yes. I have three cars with mis-matched couplers, a short flat, and unlettered tank, and a bobber caboose.

Also a gondola string with 4 horn hook, and a transition gondola making a 5 string.

 

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, March 13, 2023 2:11 PM

I tried it, and made it work back when.  Been a long time ago.

All have the Kadee, along with metal wheel sets, and my old "train set" cars are in the scrap box.

Mike.

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Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, March 13, 2023 2:38 PM

Hello All,

The problem I have encountered with most X2F (Hook & Horn) coupler installations is that they are Talgo-style (truck mounted).

With the 15-inch curves and #2 Turnouts on my pike truck mounted couplers are problematic.

The only transition cars I have are from Kadee knuckle couplers to European Height Adjustable Close Coupling type.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by tstage on Monday, March 13, 2023 3:00 PM

Nope, I run all my rolling stock with #58 Kadees.  Most of my rolling stock are from kits so I always swapped out any plastic couplers for Kadees after assembly.  If I purchase RTR, I check and swap out the couplers for #58s, as needed.

I also replace any plastic wheels with metal ones - e.g. Proto 2000 or Kadee #523s.  In both cases that's SOP for my roster...

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Monday, March 13, 2023 3:16 PM

Trunk-mounted cars are annoying to fix.  I suggest not bothering unless you can get them for a great price.  Doing a few cars isn't too bad but I have better ways to spend time on the layout.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, March 13, 2023 3:58 PM

Talgos have mostly been upgraded to body-mounts as I did the couplers, and the trucks came later.  The exception is a few passenger cars that wouldn't work in my 18 inch curves without Talgos.  Still changed them to Kadees, though.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, March 13, 2023 4:03 PM

When I started in HO in the mid-'50s, it was with Kadee couplers, but not the ones that we use nowadays...

If there's anyone out there that's looking for couplers somewhat similar to Kadees, but doesn't have the cash... I have over a hundred of these...

...that I'll donate simply for the cost of shipping them (which won't cost much, as they're very light).

Wayne

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Posted by maxman on Monday, March 13, 2023 4:04 PM

kasskaboose
Trunk-mounted cars are annoying to fix. 

If I were an elephant I think I would be very annoyed if someone wanted to fool with something attached to my trunk.

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Posted by philo426 on Monday, March 13, 2023 4:32 PM

Well they are Athearn so they are body mounted so they perform well 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, March 13, 2023 4:35 PM

maxman
If I were an elephant I think I would be very annoyed if someone wanted to fool with something attached to my trunk.

Yeah, who needs nose-pickers?

Wayne

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Posted by bmtrainmaster on Monday, March 13, 2023 4:41 PM

I have a few cars that have part of the horn hook coupler cut off. They work with kadees but it is a little hard to couple and uncouple them.

-bmtrainmaster

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, March 13, 2023 9:22 PM

Many years ago there were couplers available that could mate with either the horn hook or knuckle couplers.  Way back then, most equipment was still coming with horn hook couplers.  If you wnated knuckle couplers, you had to convert yourself.

I never converted to Kadees back then, but a fellow modeler (like many others) had.  To operate some of my engines on his railroad, I tried some of those compromise couplers on a few of them.  They worked OK for either coupler.  They were supposed to also be able to have the delayed uncoupling like Kadees, but they didn't really do that so well.

I've long since sold off my original HO (to a family member) and went into N scale.  I did dable in HO for a while some years back, until deciding to continue with N.  By then, almost all the HO rolling stock was coming with some kind of knuckle coupler.

I think Bachmann may have made some, but I think there was also another company that had them available.

Jeff   

 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, March 13, 2023 9:36 PM

In my 55 years in this hobby I have never used "horn hook" X2F couplers on my layout.

Let me explain - My father gave me his trains, and a complete working layout, at age 10. All his equipment at that time was equipped with dummy knuckle couplers, a popular choice amoung some modelers in the 50's and early 60's.

So when I started buying additional rolling stock, most Athearn and MDC kits, or Silver Streak wood kits, I installed dummy couplers on them as well - for a while.

Then I started to convert them over to Kadee's. 

By age 14 I was working in the local train store/hobby shop and Kadee couplers were afordable enough at my employee discount prices.

So for over 50 years, nothing but genuine Kadee couplers.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Monday, March 13, 2023 11:10 PM

Did you know you can clip the "horn" off the horn-hook coupler to work as a temporary make-shift conversion coupler?  They can actually couple to Kadee #5s this way.  It's useful for some models where Kadees may be difficult to install without modification to the chassis.

_________________________________________________________________

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Posted by PC101 on Monday, March 13, 2023 11:24 PM

I still have my MDC/Roundhouse transition box car, Kadee #5 on one end and a X2F hook with the uncoupling pin cut off on the other end. I can't say without diggin through paperwork or layout pictures when I installed the Kadee or even say when the last time it was used. A good guess would be when I installed my first two Kadees on an Athearn BB engine and then one this box car. 

 

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Posted by PM Railfan on Tuesday, March 14, 2023 1:58 AM

I am pretty sure conversion cars/trucks will be around..... forever. 

I can think of 5 reasons right off to have them.

I normally use an Athearn Hi-Cube as a conversion car/height testor. 

Here are some trucks I also use instead of a car.....

  

 

PMR

 

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Posted by Water Level Route on Tuesday, March 14, 2023 5:33 AM

philo426

I know Horn Hook couplers are obsolete but I  do use them on certain older Athearn rolling stock because they do hold the cars securely together .I put a Kadee #5 on one end and just leave the horn hook coupler on the other for the transition box car.Do any of you do the same?Also when were the horn hooks phased out? 

 

I had several transition cars when I was converting my fleet over to Kadee.  Now, I only maintain one to use with the old tyco/lifelike/bachmann cars that would be a PITA to convert and only get run when I'm feeling sentimental.  That said, I do have a string of old Athearn passenger cars where only one coupler on the baggage car is Kadee and the rest of the string is horn hook.  The string never comes apart so they work just fine, and there's no coupler on the rear of the observation, so it's not obvious the horn hooks are there.

As to your second question, if I recall correctly, horn hooks began to be phased out when Kadee's patent expired and the copy-cats started hitting the market (McHenry for example).  Late 90's maybe?  I can't remember for sure.

Mike

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Posted by philo426 on Tuesday, March 14, 2023 8:14 AM

Thanks for the thoughtful replies!Glad to see I am not the only one who see the merits of the old Horn Hooks!

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, March 14, 2023 10:25 AM

Darth Santa Fe

Did you know you can clip the "horn" off the horn-hook coupler to work as a temporary make-shift conversion coupler?  They can actually couple to Kadee #5s this way.  It's useful for some models where Kadees may be difficult to install without modification to the chassis.

 

When I got back into the hobby a few years ago, I was on a tight budget and did the transition thing of combining couplers. It worked OK for a while.

As indicated by Darth, you can clip some parts off. I clipped the bottom pin out. I'm not 100% sure what Darth means by "horn". If it's the plastic extension that facilitates the coupling operation, be aware that although the couplers will look better that way, it will affect the coupling action in curves. Just don't clip the part too short. They will mate with KDs.

Another option is to permanently connect some cars that will always stay together. You can remove the couplers altogether, and make connectors using styrene (and screws) connected to the body of the cars. Just make sure the connectors move freely. They would definitely look better that way until you have the resources to install better couplers. Or buy better cars Smile.

Simon 

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, March 14, 2023 11:35 AM

jeffhergert
Many years ago there were couplers available that could mate with either the horn hook or knuckle couplers.  Way back then, most equipment was still coming with horn hook couplers.  If you wnated knuckle couplers, you had to convert yourself. I never converted to Kadees back then, but a fellow modeler (like many others) had.  To operate some of my engines on his railroad, I tried some of those compromise couplers on a few of them.  They worked OK for either coupler.  They were supposed to also be able to have the delayed uncoupling like Kadees, but they didn't really do that so well.

I still have a couple (no pun intended) in my toolbox! They look like horn-hooks if you took the long flange thing off, and added a Kadee type trip pin. I used them on some cars and engines when I first started in HO in the late eighties. I did find a trip-pin gauge gizmo in the toobox for "Magic Mate" couplers, made by (or imported by?) IHC, that look like what I have. 

Stix
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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, March 14, 2023 12:22 PM

Haven't run a transition car in 25 years.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, March 14, 2023 2:51 PM

Maxman: What if the trunk had some junk?!

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Posted by Southgate 2 on Tuesday, March 14, 2023 3:06 PM

I converted totally over to kadee back in the late 70s. I remember telling a friend, "It's going to cost me ( a hard earned) 7 dollars, but I'm going to do it'

And I did. Never ran horn hooks again. Dan

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Wednesday, March 15, 2023 12:25 AM

I have replaced 99% the couplers on my cars and locomotives with Kadee or compatible couplers. The rare exceptions are some old Tyco cars which I haven't ever gotten to yet. I have a lot of Tyco cars that I did convert to body mounted Kadee #5 in boxes.

Horn hook couplers were phased out in the 1990s when the patent held by Kadee ran out. When it did Bachmann and Athearn started making knock offs. Some were not very good but others are nice. It did force Kadee to come out with their whisker style couplers which was a nice innovation, but I still prefer the old school #5 couplers or their equivalent with underset or overset shank, or the one with longer shanks for use on locomotives with snowplows.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, March 15, 2023 6:32 AM

Back when I was getting started in the 1980's, I did that horn hook thing.  These days there doesn't seem any reason to have horn hook couplers on any rolling stock, what with all the clones out there people are throwing away and replacing with Kadees.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by wvgca on Wednesday, March 15, 2023 7:58 AM

i -think- i did, way back maybe eight years ago ...

since then it's all been number 5s [or kadees anyways]

didn't save any of the horn/hook, just tossed them into the garbage

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Posted by philo426 on Wednesday, March 15, 2023 6:50 PM

The good thing is how easy they are to convert back, especially on this MDC Ore car!  

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