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Drilling/Microdrilling Brass

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  • Member since
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Drilling/Microdrilling Brass
Posted by lone geep on Friday, December 9, 2022 7:07 PM

Even though my IHC mogul project has been stalled and buried for 4 years, it has always been on the back of my mind to get working on again and I know I will have to do some stuff over again. My biggest issue is reattaching the brass casting boiler tube pilot with the engine over the lead truck. the pilot is bending down on the plastic that it is good to and I plan in building a "front porch" for the pilot out of brass. Additionally, I have some parts I would like to attach to the pilot and would require drilling holes into the brass. I drilled one hole with a microdrill for the coupler with nothing but a pin vise and it was a pain. What is the best way to drill brass?

Lone Geep 

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Posted by wvgca on Friday, December 9, 2022 7:44 PM

you need faster than a pinvise .. an old loco motor with a small three jaw chuck is worthwhile ... if you feel the need for drill lube, WD40 is a good one, and most workbenches have it ..

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, December 9, 2022 10:30 PM

Hi lone geep,

I use a converted electric mini screwdriver with a chuck on it:

I believe that it was Ed who recommended the setup. IIRC, I got the screwdriver and chuck from Amazon.

My drill is rather primitive in that it uses two AAA batteries. Most of the mini screwdrivers today have built in USB port rechargable batteries.

I will mention a couple of things:

First, the drill is very slow so it does take some time to get through the metal. However, it is much easier on the hands.

Second, I'm not happy with the chuck. It will only hold very small bits. If I try to put something like a #60 bit into it, the chuck falls apart. My chuck came from China and it wasn't expensive so I'm not surprised. I would do some shopping around. Most of the chucks that I looked at on Amazon do not have great ratings unfortunately.

EDIT: here is an eBay listing for a mini chuck. The price is probably too good to be true, but you haven't much to lose:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/233999023159?hash=item367b6dbc37:g:M9cAAOSw7t5glO3Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4G7iBqtVDh1arUrnkYHxuaSiXaDkW4SsmBjL%2FDWC6%2BUD5oX9Zk%2FX7fMlGbNS%2BW61QwyqeSb9OdmTjl8q4%2BGRJAbCD4B0usBLeF%2BjiPdqxKUkO1wlsa8ZQqrLTkrAi3HR6CH52WpPDIx7i8dLulK3ep4%2BYNiWLjJN2qC%2BnG0jU6RS%2BsOiI1em9jX%2Fd0a0QdccGwVsEtJAgtIKZbJWKfrsTrDUJv8argsluK2C%2FN34Axs6vHv7K8gF4XcfUehcBb4M8RmgG%2BoVShQc26dMPYcjBECJ8hDX%2FPmGwquA%2BgxPNWDL%7Ctkp%3ABFBMoqvNp59h

Third, I strongly recommend that you invest in some high quality drill bits. I have found that most of the 'hobby' quality bits are practically useless. I now buy my bits from Acklands-Grainger and their bits are vastly superior. They cost $5-$6 each (cheaper by the dozen) but once you have experienced a decent quality bit you will kick yourself for not having spent the money earlier.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, December 9, 2022 11:43 PM

For drilling small holes in metals, I prefer to use my DeWalt impact driver, in conjunction with a small chuck that accepts small drill bits.

100_9346

Rather than using it on small items requiring small holes, in most instances I place the driver in the drawer of my work desk, then bring the item needing drilling to bear against the drill bit...with the driver supported in the drawer, it's much easier to position the driver and keep it from moving around while feeding the item to be drilled onto the drill bit.

In most cases, I use the pointy part of an old draughting compass...

....to create a starting point, and then first with a very small drill bit, enlarge it until the bit either goes through or at least creates a small depression on the material.  From there, I simply change-out the drill bits, as needed, to get the properly-sized hole drilled.

This method is especially useful if you're ambidextrous, as you can let either hand  steady the driver or feed the item to be drilled onto the drill bit, choosing whichever hand is best suited.  I have not broken tiny drill bits using this method.

Wayne

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, December 10, 2022 12:28 AM

hon30critter
I believe that it was Ed who recommended the setup. IIRC, I got the screwdriver and chuck from Amazon.

Yep, that was me, Dave

I'm happy to report that, for me at least, these mini drivers have worked out very well especially for drilling non-ferrous metals.

 Drill_chucks by Edmund, on Flickr

Finding a good chuck is paramount.

 Chuck_no78 by Edmund, on Flickr

I bought several and use them according to the job at hand.

 PRR_N2_headlight-2 by Edmund, on Flickr

Drilling brass has never been easier. IIRC the RPM of this little driver tops out at 100 RPM which for most jobs is quite adequate. The Black & Decker job is just a little faster at 180 RPM.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by GMTRacing on Saturday, December 10, 2022 8:40 AM

One thing I rarely see mentioned is a punch mark to locate the hole. The smaller the drill bit the more likely it is to bend and wander. I do lots of drilling bolts for safety wire and the best way I have found is to use a push punch to mark where the hole goes. I normally use a bigger drill than Ed does just because that is what I have but the smaller screwdriver types work better in most cases especially on brass or alloy. I also always use a cutting wax (Boelube or similar) to keep the drill lubricated while it cuts. I source all this from MSC or Penn Tool on line as my local industrial supply went the way of most brick and motar hobby shops.  Hope that helps. If need be I can try to reduce this all to pictures.      J.R.

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Posted by CGW103 on Saturday, December 10, 2022 8:48 AM

Just because it is a new drill bit dosent mean it is sharped properly.

 

 

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, December 10, 2022 2:40 PM

GMTRacing
One thing I rarely see mentioned is a punch mark to locate the hole.

Hi J.R.,

Good point! (Pardon the punLaugh). I always use one too. Stops the bit from wandering and gets the hole right where you want it.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: outside of London, Ontario
  • 389 posts
Posted by lone geep on Saturday, December 10, 2022 7:47 PM

hon30critter

Hi lone geep,

I use a converted electric mini screwdriver with a chuck on it:

I believe that it was Ed who recommended the setup. IIRC, I got the screwdriver and chuck from Amazon.

My drill is rather primitive in that it uses two AAA batteries. Most of the mini screwdrivers today have built in USB port rechargable batteries.

I will mention a couple of things:

First, the drill is very slow so it does take some time to get through the metal. However, it is much easier on the hands.

Second, I'm not happy with the chuck. It will only hold very small bits. If I try to put something like a #60 bit into it, the chuck falls apart. My chuck came from China and it wasn't expensive so I'm not surprised. I would do some shopping around. Most of the chucks that I looked at on Amazon do not have great ratings unfortunately.

EDIT: here is an eBay listing for a mini chuck. The price is probably too good to be true, but you haven't much to lose:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/233999023159?hash=item367b6dbc37:g:M9cAAOSw7t5glO3Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4G7iBqtVDh1arUrnkYHxuaSiXaDkW4SsmBjL%2FDWC6%2BUD5oX9Zk%2FX7fMlGbNS%2BW61QwyqeSb9OdmTjl8q4%2BGRJAbCD4B0usBLeF%2BjiPdqxKUkO1wlsa8ZQqrLTkrAi3HR6CH52WpPDIx7i8dLulK3ep4%2BYNiWLjJN2qC%2BnG0jU6RS%2BsOiI1em9jX%2Fd0a0QdccGwVsEtJAgtIKZbJWKfrsTrDUJv8argsluK2C%2FN34Axs6vHv7K8gF4XcfUehcBb4M8RmgG%2BoVShQc26dMPYcjBECJ8hDX%2FPmGwquA%2BgxPNWDL%7Ctkp%3ABFBMoqvNp59h

Third, I strongly recommend that you invest in some high quality drill bits. I have found that most of the 'hobby' quality bits are practically useless. I now buy my bits from Acklands-Grainger and their bits are vastly superior. They cost $5-$6 each (cheaper by the dozen) but once you have experienced a decent quality bit you will kick yourself for not having spent the money earlier.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

 

Thanks for all the informative replies. Does Akland Grainger make micro drill bits too?

Lone Geep 

 \

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, December 10, 2022 9:03 PM

lone geep
Does Akland Grainger make micro drill bits too?

I just discovered that Acklands-Grainger is a Canadian company so you would be better off finding a source in the US if you are from south of the border.

The brands that I have had success with are Chicage-Latrobe and Cle-Line.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 121 posts
Posted by gerhard_k on Saturday, December 10, 2022 10:48 PM

hon30critter

  

I just discovered that Acklands-Grainger is a Canadian company so you would be better off finding a source in the US if you are from south of the border.

The brands that I have had success with are Chicage-Latrobe and Cle-Line.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

Surprised that no one so far has pointed out what I thought every metal handyman knows: brass tends to 'grab' onto a drill bit and thus needs a different drill geometry than steel or most other 'normal' metals, with a flatter entrance angle. The best description is found by searching "drilling brass" and reading the metal machinist discussion posts that will pop up. 

Yes, you can drill brass with a 'normal' drill bit but it's a touchy operation, and especially with small bits can easily break them. Good luck! 

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, December 10, 2022 10:53 PM

I get small drill bits from E.M. Precise Tool, in Stoney Creek, Ontario (about a 15 minute drive from here).

Wayne

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, December 10, 2022 11:59 PM

gerhard_k
brass tends to 'grab' onto a drill bit and thus needs a different drill geometry than steel or most other 'normal' metals, with a flatter entrance angle.

Hi gerhard_k,

Interesting information. I didn't know that, but then again, I'm not a machinist (more like a semi-experienced hack!).

I have certainly experienced grabbing when drilling brass. I find that using a lubricant and very gentle pressure reduces the problem significantly. Like many people say, "....let the bit do the work....". I rarely break bits these days, especially when I'm using the electric driver. It is so much easier to keep the bit lined up.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, December 11, 2022 3:24 AM

gerhard_k
Surprised that no one so far has pointed out what I thought every metal handyman knows: brass tends to 'grab' onto a drill bit and thus needs a different drill geometry...

When I sat the “Engineering Knowledge” exam, back in the day, there were questions regarding the various drill angles for different materials.  
While I used to be pretty good at hand sharpening drill bits down to 3/32”; they were sharp and would run true, but I could never ‘eyeball the angle”. Now I struggle even to see the tips of micro drills even wearing my spectacles!
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by lone geep on Sunday, December 11, 2022 2:25 PM

hon30critter

 

 

 
lone geep
Does Akland Grainger make micro drill bits too?

 

I just discovered that Acklands-Grainger is a Canadian company so you would be better off finding a source in the US if you are from south of the border.

The brands that I have had success with are Chicage-Latrobe and Cle-Line.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

 

I'm on same side of border as you so it isn't an issue for me. 

Lone Geep 

 \

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, December 12, 2022 12:53 AM

lone geep
I'm on same side of border as you so it isn't an issue for me. 

Sorry lone geep, I knew that.

I had a look at the Acklands-Grainger website and they only sell the drill bits in 12 packs. That could get pretty expensive if you wanted a wide selection of sizes, but I have found that, with the wonders of CA gel adhesives, you really only need a few sizes.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    September 2003
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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 12, 2022 4:09 PM

One thing to watch when buying a microchuck for this kind of work is to ensure that it closes down to a true 0" nominal.  Many of these things have a small radius on the inside of the jaws, paradoxically enough to aid with centering small-but-not-quite-that-small twist bits, and these will not correctly grab the shank of these very small drills.  Leading them, often, to stall with the ends of the flutes embedded in the sticky brass and needing to be 'unscrewed' from the hole...while not bending the bit sideways AT ALL or it will probably snap.

I know how to put a proper 'point' back on a broken small drill.  I have access to gradated lapping film, an angle jig, ridiculous amounts of patience and interest in silly detail, and (most importantly) a Keeler head-mounted stereo operating microscope.  Normal people don't bother with that; they just use a new bit... I was unaware these small sizes came from the factory with selectable point angles, so this is something new to me.

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Posted by GP025 on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 9:18 AM

I use "burr bits" to drill brass. They have a round end and will not catch and twist- think dental bits. I usually get mine from a jewelry making supplier. I believe it's Rio Grande Jewelry Supply. You'll have to google for the website as I'm not at home.

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Posted by azrail on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 10:12 AM

https://www.riogrande.com/

Owned by the parent compny of BNSF.

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