Re O standard gauge (i.e. not On30) the difference between three-rail and two-rail equipment's curve needs is generally diameter vs. radius. So for example, the Atlas GP-7 two-rail version needs 36" radius curves, while the three-rail version only needs an "O-36" (36" diameter) curve. Otherwise, it's the same body, same detailing etc. That's part of why 'three-rail scale' is gaining in popularity; you can run full-size 1:48 scale equipment but in a much smaller space than two-rail.
On30 is great for detail but takes way more room than HO. Was on the fence awhile myself. I went with HO so I could actualy run trains with yards ect. in a smale space. There are very detailed military stuff in HO as well as people and there is junk, same in O scale. HO has more stuff in general and you can get real detailed stuff if you want. On30 has less stuff and when it comes to the trains themselves a lot less stuff but you need less in that scale. I fine the best veiwing for trains to be just below eye level, in my case I chose that level from my office chair as that is in the room also and serves as a computer desk as well as workstation.
Hello.
Unfortunately no military. That was my dream as a kid. Like Patton and tanks. I actually wanted to try for Ranger and Green Beret as I got older. Changed my mind when I read how soldiers were treated after Vietnam, how Patton, McCarthur, and others were disrespected. The politicians start wars and the soldiers die in them.
I sometimes regret not going in.
I have been an Arizona ranger for some years though, but its not military.
Have a good friend who was a SWCC.
Cool tiger!
Yeah the room thing is a major issue. My hed will actually be 14x20 feet, but that' not a lot considering it will be a workshop, not a dedicated layout area.
Thanks. I have more thinking to do!
Good idea about the double level heights. The lower one would be nice while I'm sitting writing, drawing, etc, and the other standing. Thanks.
Thanks also for the O Toy vs O Scale. I still need to learn terminollogy so I know what to look for.
The people and cars, trees, etc. in O being twice the size of HO is a positive for me, as it would allow for more detail and a closer look, at least in my mind.
I am till working this out in my head though. I think I need to go to a good layout and see stuff up close for a while, to check how things look in different scales.
Hello Commander. Navy, Right? I served on aircraft carriers. E4.
But then, I am a LION. Him likes to talk in da sekond peerson, so watch out for da LION.
LION builds subway trains, Scenery is easy, just paint the walls black. Now if you was in England you could use four track main lions. But da LION models kn HO, so I have to add a third rail outside olf the gauge.
If you would like tosee the layout of LION,click is below. If you want to come over, I am sere that our LEOPARD would like to have you for dinner.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Space is a major factor. As others mentioned, O scale (including both O and On30 gauges) takes up a lot of room. On30 steamers offer the advantage of being able to run on 18" curves. O starts at 27" in two rail... Bachmann On30 is mostly smallish steamers for logging/mining operations. Not sure it mates well with your military equipment, but hey, it's your railroad. In O gauge, you can find F engines that work on 2 rail at reasonable cost on Ebay. Atlas equipment is pretty solid. Rivarossi also made diesel engines, but they are poor pullers - the trick is to buy two and put two motorized trucks on one engine. If military is a major driver, you can find 1/87 scale equipment on Ebay. Some 1/72 scale stuff does not look too much out of scale...
Simon
I went through a similar analysis of 3 rail O/On30 and HO/HOn3 in the 1990s. I ended up choosing HO/HOn3 mainly due to space considerations. However, in the 30 years since there have been many changes in the marketplace which would have impacted my decision. There were also many things I didn't understand when I made my choice.
On30 boomed, and became the leading narrow gauge. Now it's nearly busted again, as Bachmann has pretty much backed out of producing On30. There is a fair market of Bachmann new old stock and used locomotives available at somewhat inflated prices. Very little else for locomotives.
In HOn3, MDC dropped out completely. Blackstone produced 2 locomotives (only the C-19 is appropriate for my use), but probably won't produce any more. There has been a fair amount of brass produced over the years, but generally require remotoring and painting to be up to today's standards. Again, used and new old stock are about the only sources, and again at inflated prices, although prices are slipping as the number of HOn3 modelers left is slipping also.
HOn30 almost died out completely as modern N scale took hold, and reduced the number of viable locomotive mechanisms available for conversion. If you are OK with diesels or simulated geared steam, HOn30 is still reasonably practical. There are foreign prototype locomotives still being manufactured - HOn30 is much more popular outside North America.
Modeling 19th/early 20th Century in HO is much easier than in O (2 or 3 rail). There are still numerous wood car kits available, and a few locomotives beyond the General. There have been a fair number of HO "Civil War" train sets produced which give plastic car bodies ripe for spending $20 on making into a decent model.
Operations in 3 rail O were a decision point for me. In the 1990s, the number of locomotives that could run slow enough for switching ops was pretty small. Lionel couplers - pretty standard then - were/are not suited for manual uncoupling and automatic coupling. The electro-magnets used for uncoupling and opening knuckles are pretty gross looking. In HO and HOn3, Kadee couplers can be uncoupled with a skewer and couple automatically. Magnets for uncoupling are practical, and can be effectively hidden.
just my take and history
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon in HO and HOn3, where it's always 1900....
I'll throw in a couple of things....
1. I'd familiarize myself as much as possible as far as what is available in HO, O, and On30. Picking up the current Walthers catalog will give you a good idea for the HO stuff. You'll find MUCH more available in HO than any other scale - engines, cars, automobiles, military equipment (since you seem to be interested in that), etc.
2. Keep in mind On30, although the trains are not much bigger than HO standard gauge trains, are still 1:48 O scale models. On30 trains are smaller than O standard gauge trains, but the people, buildings, autos, trees, etc. are still going to be O scale...and so are about twice as big as the same thing in HO. You need to allow for the larger size of everything in O.
3. Three-rail O-gauge toy trains are going to look like toy trains. O-gauge scale trains, whether two or three-rail, are scale models. But as you mention, O scale steam is going to be much more expensive than On30 steam engines, so for your timeframe On30 or HO standard gauge would be a lot cheaper than O standard gauge.
4. If you build a two-level layout, rather than building one level at a comfortable height (around 50") and the other so high you have to climb a ladder to see it, you might want to build the upper level around the 50" height, and then make the lower level a comfortable height to operate while sitting in a rolling office chair, say 36-40".
Very cool link and layout!
Thanks!
The O team engines can produce some nice smoke, and I think if I can do a dead rail conversion to the ones I have, maybe I can also detail them etc. and later get more accurate ones for home.
With dead rail I can have the main line go out into the yard and through my wife's shed/cottage (once its built). She thinks a train in the yard would be nice.
So an O engine and train, on dead rail/two rails, pushing out some good smoke and sound would actually be great. The On30 could then be relegated to inide my shed, and maybe one in hers with a more Lady-like theme in there.
I'm starting to get ideas!
I'll check that out.
tbdanny's layout is great! Really interesting with the elevator!!!
And yeah, I will post pics when I start this.
I'm just still hovering over the fence so to speak.
AtlasO makes some scale detailed O Scale models. They have both 2 rail and 3 rail. I have collected On30 but have not yet got beyond a test loop for a layout. I am worried that not much new equipment has been introduced lately.
Commander Zarkon Howdy! Figured I'd start a new thread instead of reviving an old one. Hope it was the right decision.
Howdy!
Figured I'd start a new thread instead of reviving an old one. Hope it was the right decision.
Rich
Alton Junction
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Anyway, here goes.
As a kid I had several HO trainsets and used to put them on a 4x8 plywood sheet in the carport, and build a world with dirt, etc. I had an N gauge too.
O gauge I never liked because of the three rails and the locomotives looking like toys and kind of cheap.
I'm having a shed built: 16x20 feet. This will be a workshop and maybe office. I am an artist. Thinking of building a train layout all around the inside, with some islands and stuff for scenery. It will be strictly steam, ranging between just pre WWI and just post WWII.
have considered building it high, needing a ladder to see maybe, so as to stay out of the way. Or... building a more to the wall layout at about 48 or 50", and another at about 72" with a gradual climb or a heliz for the main line. Not sure.
My layout will be freelance/fantasy, and focus on the train/s running around cool areas. I love the Thunder Mesa layout in Gerome, AZ and similar ones. Just fun and like another world.
Some factors:
My perspective on scale to choose:
I like HO and also On30, so I keep waffling. As I mentioned above, the main reason for not going with full O gauge is that the locomotives I have seen (I have three which will be used in my classroom) just seem very toylike. Aparently the really nice ones are quite expensive, especially on two rail. Still, I could run one full O scale engine on two rails eventually, as a main line, with depots for the On30, as stated above.
Please fel free to correct me if I have stated something in error. Would love to see all the input.