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Mixing railroads?

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Mixing railroads?
Posted by magnum3 on Friday, October 28, 2022 3:59 PM

Hello all,

new to the group. Starting back into the hobby after being out for many years. Thinking of building a layout with two loops. I made my first purchase a Santa Fe 2903 northern. Should I stick with another Santa Fe to keep the same RR line or looking at a Burlington Route Hudson. Thoughts

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, October 28, 2022 5:05 PM
Gidday magnum3,  Welcome to the Forum.
 
There is an opinion that “It’s your model railroad so you can do what you want!” I have rather ambivalent feelings about that statement.
 
Yes, the statement is true, it is your model railroad but then I’ve seen too many ffolkess trying to then, unsuccessfully, and unnecessarily IMO, justify their decisions!
 
Some modellers do model a specific prototype at a specific time, others also model a prototype but leave themselves “wriggle room,” some freelance, some model “what if,” others model what turns them on!
  
No matter what You decide, it’s a hobby, Have Fun!
 
½  My 2 CentsCheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by Lakeshore Sub on Friday, October 28, 2022 5:06 PM

Hi Magnum3.

Welcome to the forum.   You first few posts will be moderated so they will take time to be posted.

To answer your question.  What you decide to purchase depends on what you goals for the layout are.   

If you just like running trains and running them on the layout, then buy what you like and enjoy them.

If you have future plans for a Santa Fe based layout, then sticking with SF locomotives would make sense.

A third alternative is that you could model a location where both the Santa Fe and Burlington have tracks running near each other and they might naturally be seen in the location.

In my case, I  model the CNW, Milwaukee Road and Soo Line so I have engines for all 3 running on my layout.  Knowing what my end goal is allows me to only buy those roads that fit that scenario.

There are other factors like time period, prototype or free lance modeling, budget, space available  and a variety of other ideas that people often refer to as givens and druthers that help you determine what works for you.

It all depends on what you see your layout becoming.  

Scott Sonntag

 

 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, October 28, 2022 5:11 PM

Welcome

Railroads have 'trackage rights' across other railroad's rails. These are negotiated and paid for per their agreements.

Railroads also use run-through power. When BNSF hands off a train to say CSX, they just climb off the locomotive and the CSX crew climbs on and takes the train to its next destination.

These things are all more recent, and so might not work in the steam ers. But what the heck, it is your railroad, and even way back when, trains could ride on the tracks of others. The have agreements to protect each others trains in the event of floods, bridges down, or just because I can save fuel riding on your tracks instead of mine, even with the cost of riding on your railrroad figgured in.

BTW: I am a LION and I like to talk funny. (ROAR)

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by magnum3 on Friday, October 28, 2022 5:21 PM

Thanks so much guys. First off feel really welcomed and glad to be part of this great hobby with you all. It all surrounds my love for my grandfather who introduced me to trains at a young age. He retired from EMD working on the real thing. And each summer taking me to the Illinois railway museum which just a few weeks ago was able to share for the first time with my 1 1/2 daughter who absolutely loved it "saying choo choo" the whole time. My first train to purchase was the MTH premier 1st gen. Prototype 1 of the Santa Fe 2903 in o gauge. It's there at the museum and was also sat at the science and industry which my grandfather also took me to see as a child. It's a special memory. And so glad I found that engine on eBay. looking at a burlintron route steam Hudson to round out the layout I'm thinking. I'm saving up for a 3rd rail sunset. Are they decent trains to run?  I know MTH are good. But don't know about running brass?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, October 28, 2022 9:23 PM

The Santa Fe and Burlington crossed and re-crossed each other in the Galesburg, IL area.

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Posted by magnum3 on Friday, October 28, 2022 10:27 PM

Much appreciated everyone I think I will try for the Burlington Rout Hudson. Just need to save for it and hopefully the wife doesn't get too upset when I make the purchase. Lol

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Posted by drgwcs on Friday, October 28, 2022 11:19 PM

Another area that the Santa Fe and Burlington actually shared track was the joint line between Pueblo and Denver CO. To that you can add in the Rio Grande and Colorado and Southern (a subsidiary of the Burlington) as well as some Mopac. 

Jim

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Posted by wrench567 on Saturday, October 29, 2022 9:27 AM

  Hello and welcome.

  Having 2 railroads close together will give you an opportunity to interchange cars. It could be a small yard or even a simple siding where cars can be spotted for pickup.

   For passenger operations. A station could be placed in between so passengers and baggage can transfer to different railroads.

   There are also large industries served by multiple roads also.

 Whatever you decide. The beauty of the hobby is that there is no right or wrong. I mainly have PRR steam and first gen deisels, but I also have a GEVO and an SD90. I also accwired some New Haven and B&O power.

    Have fun.

     Pete.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, October 29, 2022 10:32 AM

magnum3
Should I stick with another Santa Fe to keep the same RR line or looking at a Burlington Route Hudson.

Buy what you want and you will enjoy... then have fun... and share pictures!

Big Smile

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, October 29, 2022 11:53 AM

magnum,

I think there is great reward with sticking with and modeling one railroad.  It gives you focus, as well as reduces the temptation in purchasing "cool-looking" locomotives outside of your prototype's sphere.  That can help save money in the long run.

That said, modeling a crossing and/or interchange with another railroad(s) can provide fun and interest to your layout.  That would be contingent, however, on what location and/or era you are modeling - i.e. if you are trying to stay true to the prototype(s).

I like a layout that has at least a plausible "reason for existance" - e.g. proto-lanced.  If that's not a concern or driving force for you then you can model whatever you want.

FWIW...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, October 29, 2022 11:54 AM

My road engines other than a few switchers which haven't been painted yet are all Milwaukee.  Yet, I had to have a Pennsylvania GG-1.  I have no catenary either.  As a proto-lancer, I can imagine that the Pennsylvania extended its electric trackage through Chicago and passenger service beyond that point switched to diesel power on the Milwaukee.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by NittanyLion on Saturday, October 29, 2022 1:36 PM

Get what you want to get, who cares. You'll figure out your own preferences. 

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Saturday, October 29, 2022 1:50 PM

NittanyLion

Get what you want to get, who cares. You'll figure out your own preferences.  

 

This ^

A lot of people come to this forum wanting validation to do this or that.  You don't need our approval to run whatever trains you want.

Maybe some one a prototypical basis to run different roads together.  There certainly are examples from the past.  For example: at the beginning of the merger to form the BN, you could find CB&Q, NP and GN mixed because they all formed the BN.

But you can run whatever floats your boat.

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by jjdamnit on Saturday, October 29, 2022 3:19 PM

Hello All,

Welcome to the forums.

Rather than limiting your pike (layout) to one livery (railroad), you might consider limiting it to an era, or time frame.

There are some that model specific railroads as realistically as possible- -prototypical.

Some, do as they wish; which includes "fantasy" liveries (paint schemes), "what if" scenarios, and mixed eras- -freelance.

While others proto-freelance; the pike is loosely based on a prototypical railroad but they combine freelance elements.

The latter is what I have done with my pike.

It is based on a prototypical coal mine- -in current operation- -on the Western Slope of Colorado. It is set in the 1970s to 1980s.

The coal mine on my pike is owned by the fictitious Consolidated Materials Group Corporation and the railroad, under its control, is named the Buckskin & Platte Railroad (BS&P R.R. reporting marks) which is also my avatar.

Other railroads that run on my pike are the Denver & Rio Grande Western and the Santa Fe, with a few "orphan" switchers from the Southern Pacific.

Because the pike is based on a mining operation- -requiring machinery manufactured from all over the world- -any and all rolling stock is represented.

Specialty flatcars like depressed center, GSC 60-Ton Well, and six-axle heavy-duty flatcars from other railroads are common. 

stage
(This)...reduces the temptation in purchasing "cool-looking" locomotives outside of your prototype's sphere. That can help save money in the long run.

If this were only true...

I have a European EDK 750 Slewing Crane and a Class G 2000 BB Vossloh locomotive (as pictured in collectors livery) along with a Type Rlmmps 650 Heavy Duty Flat Car for MOW crash recovery.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, October 29, 2022 4:17 PM

jjdamnit
While others proto-freelance; the pike is loosely based on a prototypical railroad but they combine freelance elements.

jj,

Maybe there's a fairly wide definition for "proto-freelance"/"proto-lance"?  What would you call a layout based on a prototype and era (i.e. use of appropriate locomotives, rolling stock, equipment, facilities, etc) but not necessarily a specific region (division) or location (town); although what you model (or don't model) might suggest an region or location your prototype operated in or through?

For me, "loosely based" would only apply to a specific region or location.  That gives me flexibility to model what I want but everything else would be appropriate to my prototype and the era I choose to model.  Maybe I'm closer to being a "proto-proto-lancer"? Big Smile

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by Little Timmy on Saturday, October 29, 2022 8:27 PM

Along with my own Two roadnames ( Demon's Hollow & Pacific , and  Wylers Gulch & Western )

The following  road names show up in my locomotive collection...

Canadian Pacific

Southern Pacific

Burlington Northern

Frisco

Cotton Belt

ATSF 

Denver and Rio Grand

Texas & New Orleans 

British Columbia Railways 

And they vary from steam to Dash -9's

 

 

Rust...... It's a good thing !

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Posted by dti406 on Saturday, October 29, 2022 8:57 PM

I sort of model the Toledo Terminal as I can use locomotives and trains of the NYC, PRR, B&O, C&O, Wabash, NKP, DT&I, and D&TSL as they all had trackage rights.

Rick Jesionowski 

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Sunday, October 30, 2022 4:55 AM
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Posted by magnum3 on Sunday, October 30, 2022 7:52 AM

You guys have been great. And some of the replies. Quite hilarious and entertainin...I really appreciate the support. I'm definitely going to pick up a Burlington Route now and feel good about he decision. Just don't tell the wife now. Lol  

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Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, October 30, 2022 9:52 AM

the Pennsylvania and the Reading combined service in southern New Jersey and formed the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines and yes they got that on the side of diesels and steam tenders.  The agreement called for 1 reading engine for 2 PRR engines. Either engine would cross the  delair bridge and join the PRR  main at Frankford junction and ride the corridor to 30th street station and then be serviced at the PRR engine facility at 42nd street.  So you could see PRR, Reading or PRSL engines on the PRR.  You can also see foretgn road engines at interchange points where it is necessary to travel to the nearest siding or yard delivering or picking up cars.

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Posted by dstarr on Monday, October 31, 2022 9:05 AM

Real railroads often joined with other railroads.  Equipment, locomotives, cabeese, MOW equipment from either road might be found on the "other" road.  Real railroads were long stretches of track, which came to an end somewhere, on the state line, where the investment money ran out, at some impassible obstacle, whatever.  Usually there was a connection with another railroad where the track ended so that freight and passengers could proceed to their destination. 

   So you can acquire locomotives and other stuff from a variety of railroads and run them together.  If you please you can invent a back story to explain how things work and how they got put together back in the old days when the rails were laid.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, October 31, 2022 12:40 PM

My layout, set in the late '30s, is pretty-much freelanced, (and in some instances, not all that prototypical either).

I have locomotives with five made-up roadnames (supposedly all affiliated and likely in later years to combine as one).

Here are some examples...(click on the photos for an enlarged view)

 

...but also have a couple locomotives representing real railroads...

This one's a bit too modern...(one of 66 that I built many years ago)...

...but I have three steamers coming that will prototypically represent the real steam-era TH&B, which ran right past my house when I was a child.

In my opinion, your layout can be whatever you want it to be.

Wayne

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Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, October 31, 2022 1:13 PM

Hello All,

Another thing that no one has mentioned is "Patched Out" locomotives and rolling stock.

This is the practice of acquiring used locomotives and rolling stock then, rather than repainting them in the colors of the new owners and renumbering, painting over the previous road numbers with a "patch" of paint and renumbering them. 

Often times the old road names will be left on the units or the new owner's name will be added without removing the previous owner's name.

This practice is common with older-generation diesels being repurposed as switchers or road slugs- -with the cabin intact.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, October 31, 2022 1:56 PM

Some variety adds interest.. a would go with the Burlington for that reason. 

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, October 31, 2022 5:04 PM

jjdamnit
Another thing that no one has mentioned is "Patched Out" locomotives and rolling stock.

I have a couple of those on my layout, both F7s as it happens:

 P-C-754_F7a by Edmund, on Flickr

These were Rio Grande trade-ins to EMD and Penn Central said, hey, those are better than our old junk, we'll take 'em!

The B&O bought some used F7s from Bessemer & Lake Erie, ten of each, A and B units, as I recall. No time to repaint them but they did manage to get a brass Capitol dome emblem anchored to the nose door:

 BnO_F7-4645-2 by Edmund, on Flickr

This old Geep is wearing the livery of its new owner, Conrail while still showing the former Penn Central and Pennsylvania Railroad lettering under years of worn-off paint:

 CR_GP9_7105 by Edmund, on Flickr

Fun Stuff — Ed

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Posted by PM Railfan on Monday, October 31, 2022 5:19 PM

You better ask the Mrs. first.

 

That would be my first move in deciding SF 'all the way', or Burl. 4-6-4.

 

Laugh

PMR

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Posted by magnum3 on Monday, October 31, 2022 6:46 PM

Thanks again guys...a lot of great feedback. And love the pictures of all your layouts and engines. So happy to be part of this group with you all. 

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