I have never had a DCC system in my life. My dad showed me how simple DC circuits were wired over 60 yrs ago so I have always thought in that manner. Having read a number of posts here I am trying to find out how others do certain things.
If you are a DCC user how do you do these things:
1) How do you control your turnout direction?
2) Do you have any means of indication of which way the turnout is set other than by looking at it?
3) Do you have track signals? What operates the lights in the signals if you do?
4) What do you use to detect track occupancy?
I have just a small switching yard, "Lots of Switching, Small Space", Model RR Planning 2005, but hope to do something bigger some day. Just trying to get ideas of how things can be done in a field I am very unfamiliar with.
RM
I also have a switching layout. All my turnouts are manual. No signal system or other layout control.
Pete.
wrench567 All my turnouts are manual. No signal system or other layout control
Ditto.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I control my turnouts the old fashioned way. I use an old DC powerpack to control turnouts, lights, and other accessories. Some of my turnouts are manual. I know I could use stationary decoders to power the turnouts but it seems like an unnecessary expense. I've rigged the throttle of the DC powerpack to power my turntable and use the direction switch to control the direction of rotation.
Most of my turnouts are Atlas and use Atlas controls recess mounted on the fascia. I don't have lights to indicate the routing. I just wire the turnouts so if the slide switch is to the left, the turnout is set to the straight route and if it is to the right, the turnout is set to the diverging route. I have a few Tortoise turnouts controlled with toggle switches, again left/straight, right/diverging.
Fingers.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I mostly use DC toggle switches on a control panel to operate turnouts. For a few subway tunouts i have indicator lights on the panel. there are a few signals on the layout wired to show turnout position.
i have a few stationary decoders to control a few turnouts. After a while, i realized I should have used toggles for those, too.
i don't do occupancy detection.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
John-NYBWI control my turnouts the old fashioned way. I use an old DC powerpack to control turnouts,
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
I adopted a Digitrax system back in 2005 and have been adding on to the system ever since.
Early on I thought I'd never want to control turnouts from the throttle. i thought it would be a hassle to have to enter an address just to throw one switch, then switch back to the cab number of the train I was running.
Later, I was intrigued by "route control" available with using DS 64 stationary decoders incorporated into one little box that plugs in to the Loconet network. I picked one up about a year ago to see what it could do. I wired it to a yard ladder so that I could use pushbutton control OR select a route from a throttle.
Here is the temporary setup while I was playing around with the options:
Digitrax_ds64_tryout by Edmund, on Flickr
Originally I had a panel here with toggle switches to line the route. It was still a little confusing to make sure every turnout was lined, even with LED indicators. Now all I have to do is push one of those colored buttons OR select the route from the throttle. Absolutely a great advantage for operational control.
I still have LED indicators that tell me which yard track is selected. I can either press a few buttons on the throttle or use the panel-mounted push buttons and all the Tortoise switch machines respond as needed to alighn the route.
With the latest version of the Digitrax throttles it is a breeze yo push the "turnout" button, press one button for the route you want, then press the turnout button again to escape from the selection screen. Meanwhile you still have control over your train since the throttle screen shows what is going on with your train. I'm convinced this is a convenient and useful function of the Digitrax system.
Since this is yard trackage within yard limits I don't have signals wired here. I am a big fan of Rail Logic Signal Animators for my main line signals. I really enjoy watching the signal aspects change as the train progresses around the layout. Most main line turnouts are integrated into the signals to give as close as possible indications as can be reasonably expected.
Signal_DB-west by Edmund, on Flickr
PRR_Signal-View-3 by Edmund, on Flickr
This is what works for me. Others may have different experience.
Regards, Ed
I run my layout in DCC, but I control my turnouts and siginals using a DC power pack. I use Atlas Custom Line turnouts that are controlled by Circuitron Tortoise switch machines, which is pretty common among model railroaders. A wire protruding up from the Tortoise which is mounted under the layout provides the control to move the points.
The Tortoise is powered by two wires from the DC power pack. I have control panels on my layout on which I have installed DPDT switches and bipolar (red/green) LEDs. Again, this is a common technique among model railroaders. By flipping the DPDT switch up or down, the Tortoise moves the points straight through or divergent, and the LED on the control panel turns green (straight through) or red (divergent) to indicate the route. I also use trackside signals that are controlled by the Tortoise. Once again, the signal turns green (straight through) or red (divergent) to indicate the route.
Lately, on my new layout, I have been using Peco turnouts which I operate manually without the use of Tortoises. h Peco turnouts are spring loaded, so I can flip the points with my finger. I also use trackside signals that are controlled by wiring directly connected to the Peco turnouts.
For track occupancy purposes, I use Circuitron Opti-Sensors which sit between ties on track before and after grade crossings and "blocks". As the train passes over the Opti-Sensor, the signals are activated, and as the last car of the train passes over the next Opti-Sensor the signals are deactivated.
Rich
Alton Junction
roundhouseman1) How do you control your turnout direction?
some turnouts (e.g. Peco) have a spring that allows the turnout to be positioned with a finger.
more conventional turnouts can be position manually using Caboose Hobbies ground throws or more commonly today with Tortoise machines. older twin coil machines seem to be less popular
tortoise machines require as much power as an LED. the polarity of a 12V supply can be reversed using a DPDT switch or +12 and -12V supplies can be selected using a SPDT switch
there are stationary DCC decoder (e.g. DS74) that can be controlled from DCC handsets
roundhouseman2) Do you have any means of indication of which way the turnout is set other than by looking at it?
panel LEDs can be put in series with a Tortoise machine or one of 2 SPDT contact on the machine used to power LEDs. Caboose Hobbies has ground throws with electrical contacts that can be used to drive LEDs but may be necessary to power frogs
roundhouseman3) Do you have track signals? What operates the lights in the signals if you do?
signals can indicate switch position, but would more realistically indicate whether the next block is occupied (see below)
roundhouseman4) What do you use to detect track occupancy?
more conventional block detectors monitor the current drawn in the block by the loco, a lighted passenger car or caboose or rolling stock with resistors across their wheels.
there is are a variety of NMRA circuits as well as pulse transformer detectors (see DCCWiki Block Detection)
422
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
All the turnouts on my layout are Tortoise powered and controlled with DPDT "mini" toggles on local track diagram panels, using a separate 12v DC source.
For most of the panels the "leaning" of the toggle lever indicates the turnout direction.
The exceptions are the turnouts in the lower deck staging area. These can be controlled from either one of the twin panels located across the peninsula from each other. These panels share pairs of DPDT toggles wired in series with red/green LEDs indicating direction. This installation made my insulated wire vendor very happy as it reminds me of a telephone switching room.
I don't have track signals or occupancy detection.
Jim
I use Caboose Industries ground throws.
For my hidden staging yard I'll use Tortoise machines thrown with old-school real toggle switches on a real control panel, something like this one, which is from an earlier layout:
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
A really good question!
I'm a DCC user. At home, I have analog, Peco solenoid-driven turnouts for those away from easy reach. No lights to indicate direction. I also have some Caboose industries driven turnouts, for those really close to the edge of the layout. The Pecos work fine, and I kinda like having to switch things manually for the Caboose ones. I should add that my layout is smallish (shelf layout in a 7X11 room). I run DCC using my cell phone. I typically run about 3 locos at a time, so the phone is already very cluttered with dials for locos, so I did not even try to add a turnout function on that.
I do admit that a large layout changes things. At our local club, our electrical wiz installed directional lights for our peco turnouts. Running locos with about 50 turnouts is so much simpler with the mainline being indicated by a set of green lights on the turnout controls. I was dubious when he started installing them (OK, I hate installing wires, I admit it) but I soon recognized how useful it is to have them.
Simon
Pruitt
What a nice panel Mark!
Let's see you do this with DCC...
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I use Caboose ground throws. I have a few tortose machines for thosse hard to reach places.
Manual pushrods in the fascia. In is normal, out is reverse.
Position of push rod handle.
3) Do you have track signals?
Nope.
Only place I detect occupancy is in the helices, I use IR gates that dtect if something is on the track.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I thought I'd mention that I have 3-track reversing loops at either end of my layout. Trains always go through the reversing loops in a counterclockwise direction. On the exit end of the loops, I have Atlas #6 turnouts with no turnout control. The loco will throw the points as it leaves the loops so turnout control is not necessary. I realized early on that having switch machines on the exit side of the loop is totally unnecessary and removed them. I have had no problems with this method.
John-NYBWTrains always go through the reversing loops in a counterclockwise direction. On the exit end of the loops, I have Atlas #6 turnouts with no turnout control. The loco will throw the points as it leaves the loops so turnout control is not necessary.
-Confused in Seattle
Hello All,
When I ran DC; with dual-cab control- -and 16 blocks- -I couldn't leave the control panel.
I wired all my remote switch machines; a mix of Atlas and PECO dual solenoid type, including double throw crossovers with DC and two (2) CDUs.
Once I converted to DCC wireless control I haven't powered the Atlas or PECO Remote Switch Machines.
I kept the switch machines in place and now throw them manually.
No signaling or block detection.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
crossthedog John-NYBW Trains always go through the reversing loops in a counterclockwise direction. On the exit end of the loops, I have Atlas #6 turnouts with no turnout control. The loco will throw the points as it leaves the loops so turnout control is not necessary. John, I don't grok this. Are you saying that an exiting loco pushes open the turnout and it stays open while its train goes through, but you have a switch machine to make sure the turnout is later set the proper way for the next incoming loco? -Confused in Seattle
John-NYBW Trains always go through the reversing loops in a counterclockwise direction. On the exit end of the loops, I have Atlas #6 turnouts with no turnout control. The loco will throw the points as it leaves the loops so turnout control is not necessary.
John, I don't grok this. Are you saying that an exiting loco pushes open the turnout and it stays open while its train goes through, but you have a switch machine to make sure the turnout is later set the proper way for the next incoming loco?
A spring could be used to return the points to their normal position, but as I read his post, he does not even bother with this. He has three tracks leading into a single maine lion and does not care what position the points are in since all traffic is in one direction only.
Still, LION is a purist when it comes to interlocking. You need a lever to select the switch (which controls power to the selected track) and another lever to clear the home signal.
No. I removed the switch machines on the exit side of the loops and just allow the loco to push the point rails into proper position. If the next loco is passing through the turnout from the other track, it pushes them back. There is no need for a switch machine at all. This works well with Atlas turnouts since they don't lock into place but it might be problematic if I tried this with Peco turnouts.
BroadwayLion A spring could be used to return the points to their normal position, but as I read his post, he does not even bother with this. He has three tracks leading into a single maine lion and does not care what position the points are in since all traffic is in one direction only. Still, LION is a purist when it comes to interlocking. You need a lever to select the switch (which controls power to the selected track) and another lever to clear the home signal.
You understand correctly. There are two turnouts on the exit end of the reversing loops and I never have to be concerned with how the point rails are positioned because any loco passing through the turnouts will push the point rails into proper position. Power to Atlas turnout is not routing dependent.
John-NYBWI never have to be concerned with how the point rails are positioned because any loco passing through the turnouts will push the point rails into proper position.
Guess this works so long as you never need to go backwards.
BroadwayLionLet's see you do this with DCC...
Is there some particular reason you think someone couldn't?
Most of the time switch control is completely independent of the "operating system", you could absolutely run your trains on DCC and build the exact same switch and signal interlocking system.
Or your knobs could be connected to switches and inputs to a computerized system that handles the interlocking logic and sets the switches and signals via DCC accessory decoders.
There's no reason why your physical setup need be analog or digital on the back end.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but there's nothing "special" that you have a signal system - many people do. The lever control panel is less common, but that's just an interface, it could be wired up under the hood a number of different ways.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
by hand, caboose ground throws ...
roundhouseman I have never had a DCC system in my life. My dad showed me how simple DC circuits were wired over 60 yrs ago so I have always thought in that manner. Having read a number of posts here I am trying to find out how others do certain things. If you are a DCC user how do you do these things: 1) How do you control your turnout direction? 2) Do you have any means of indication of which way the turnout is set other than by looking at it? 3) Do you have track signals? What operates the lights in the signals if you do? 4) What do you use to detect track occupancy? I have just a small switching yard, "Lots of Switching, Small Space", Model RR Planning 2005, but hope to do something bigger some day. Just trying to get ideas of how things can be done in a field I am very unfamiliar with. RM
This is a complex question that would require a complex answer. Here're the short answers. This is what I used on my layout, but there are a million ways to adapt the basic system for other layouts.
Pretty much a 100% Digitrax layout. Plus JMRI to supply the logic and control where needed.
1. A) Momentary push bottons mounted on the fascia; B) directly from the hand-held throttle, and C) dispatcher using a laptop computer. Tortoise machines mounted under the benchwork.
2. A) Lighted signals indicate the condition of the switch and the occupancy of the track(s) beyond the turnout, and B) the dispatcher has a diagram of the layout showing all occupancy and switch condition. He knows when you're trying to run a fast one . . .
3. Yes. Several Digitrax SE8C controller boards in conjunction with the JMRI computer interface control all aspects of the signal system. The SE8C also has circuitry and wiring connectors to power and control the manual momentary push-buttons mounted on the fascia in proximity to the turnouts.
4. Several Digitrax BDL16 detector boards (and at least one BD4, maybe two) detect block occupancy and send that info to the JMRI dispatcher panel.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
maxman John-NYBW I never have to be concerned with how the point rails are positioned because any loco passing through the turnouts will push the point rails into proper position. Guess this works so long as you never need to go backwards.
John-NYBW I never have to be concerned with how the point rails are positioned because any loco passing through the turnouts will push the point rails into proper position.
I don't. Trains only go through the reverse loops in one direction. In the roughly 15 years since I removed the switch machines, I've never once needed to go through the reverse loops in a clockwise direction. It's never been an issue.
Wow! Thanks guys for all the nice comments and the good ideas I have seen. I have never had a DCC system and all I know (not much) is from some reading. Two of the things that I have read that many like DCC so much for, is the ability to run several locos at once and for the onboard sound. Both are great ideas! It goes without saying that I think that each of us should do whatever brings the most pleasure in this hobby.
As I stated earlier my modest background in this field is with DC. When I was a small kid and my dad was helping me to get going in this he spent some time explaining all about DC circuits. Back in that day we had a seperate switch (toggle, knife switch, whatever) to switch on or off the various circuits. Of course back then I just wanted to turn on one of my 3 blocks and get my diesel out and let her rip. Did not take long for that to get quite monotonous! Bet some of you may have gone through that.
For a long time, in between attempts at 3 different small layouts, I thought that my main interest was into really nice fine buildings and railroad cars and locos, but I found I really did not have the patience for all of that. I tended to get mired down and had a hard job finishing a project. Later on I finally figured out that my main interest seemed to be in "operation". I don't mean that I wanted to model the NYC in it's entirety but am simply interested in what it takes to move a piece of railroad equipment, box car, tank, hopper, loco whatever from one place to another similar to what real rail operators do.
Some of my readings on operations demonstrated that some model railroaders were using CTC boards and well thought out detection circuitry. Hence my early questions on how do you know how a turnout is set, or if a block is occupied, without seeing that visually? I read of one home basement model railroad that was designed to have up to 25 operators. So for those of you who operate your railroad like that how do you keep track of all that info?
Like I said I am not interested in taking sides in the DC v DCC debate. To each his own in my book. I will say however that I have seen it said here that DC involves throwing lots of toggles. While that may have been required in 1958 it isn't now. In this age of electronic relays for under $3 each, many things can be done simultaneously with a push of a button. I know basically how some are doing this with DC. What I don't know is just what kind of operation you can get with DCC of this kind, and how is it done.
ROBERT PETRICK2. A) Lighted signals indicate the condition of the switch and the occupancy of the track(s) beyond the turnout, and B) the dispatcher has a diagram of the layout showing all occupancy and switch condition. He knows when you're trying to run a fast one . . .
Layout of LION uses block signals and have nothing at all to do with switches. There are magnets glued to the underside of the train, and a reed switch glued in the gauge. Train passes and the signal immediately bethind it drops to red. The second signal back goes to yellow, and the third signal bak goes to green.
LION cannot afford all of these DCClings of witch ewe speak. Still each signal requires two dpdt relaays. LION has a whole wall of relays, and thousands of conductors around the layout.
LION cannot figgr out wat little black boxes are doing. Him likes relays that go CLICK and you can see what each part of it is doing.
ROAR