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How do I learn skills with steam locomotives and with brass?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Pasadena California
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How do I learn skills with steam locomotives and with brass?
Posted by BradenD on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 12:02 AM

I am relatively new to the more skilled side of the hobby. Before I used to buy everything ready to run and with dcc factory installed.

Now I made my own layout and custom installed a decoder into a big boy locomotive. I also have started getting into brass locomotives and they really fascinate me. I have also seen many repair videos on youtube and they really interest me. I love working with the steam locomotives and it is my favorite part of the hobby, however, my knowledge is limited.

I was wondering how I could learn to paint and repair steam locomotives and what resources might help me? Do any of you reccomend any specific books ? I know learning is best done by doing but I would rather not ruin a several hundred dollar brass piece in order to learn. I'm quite young myself and don't that much money to lose. I haven't found much online since this does seem to be an art less people are interested in these days which is unfortunate.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Tags: Brass , steam
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 10:10 AM

Welcome to the Model Railroader magazine discussion forums. We are very glad that you have found us. Your first few posts will be delayed by the Kalmbach Media moderators, but that ends soon enough, usually after just a few posts. Please stick around through the delay and become a permanent part of the discussions.

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BradenD
I was wondering how I could learn to paint and repair steam locomotives and what resources might help me? Do any of you reccomend any specific books ?

I am going to assume you are talking about older brass made from the 1970s through the 1990s. This is the era all of my brass locomotives are from. This is when the most variety was made, and quality was good. Most were made in Korea, but a few were still made in Japan.

For repair/assembly/maintenance, I think the best way to learn is to simply build a couple of Bowser locomotive kits.

There is a participant here who goes by "Darth Santa Fe", who made an excellent video series on building a Bowser "Old Lady" Connsolidation kit. That kit can be had for about $100.00 on eBay, and assembling it will teach you most of what you need to know about taking care of brass steam locomotive models.

I have made several repairs to my brass locomotives that I run. None of it is any different than working on a Bowser kit. After you build your Bowser, go back and install a decoder, then remotor it. That should get you 75% of the way or better into your skill set.

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Painting: I have painted a couple of brass locomotives, and a lot of brass freight cars. I have not found anything exotic about the actual required skills for doing this task.

I paint everything on my layout, so I have a tremendous amount of experience with an airbrush, maybe that is why I find nothing special about painting brass. However, I painted my Tenshodo 0-8-0 with spray cans 25 years ago, and it still looks good enough. No paint ever flaked or fell off, and I certainly did not prep it correctly.

For surface prep on a brass model, I clean it with Brake And Parts Cleaner, then soak it in vinegar. The final cleaning is done with CRC contact cleaner, then I paint as normal.

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How many, and what kind of brass models do you own? Is your paint scheme more complicated than basic locomotive black? Do you have any brass diesel locomotives? 

I look forward to hearing a lot more from you.

-Kevin

 

Living the dream.

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Posted by NVSRR on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 10:26 AM

To ad a little to Kevin's prep for painting,   Your method of cleaning might require a metal surface primer.       Any auto motive or metal primer works.   Then paint as the same as any method for plastic.  

I would say join NMra  lots of knowledge there.  You will find a lot of the old hats there that have been doin it for years. And special interest groups.   You will find some here too.   Don't be a stranger here. Lots of great knowledge is shared here.  
It doesn't hurt to learn about the prototypes in detail either

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
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  • From: Pasadena California
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Posted by BradenD on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 2:10 PM

I see thanks for the bowser kit idea I'm looking into that and it sounds like a fun project.

At the moment I own one brass model, a GS5 Daylight scheme. It came with a can motor so the DCC installation was fairly easy.

I would be interested in painting mostly one color schemes and not something as challenging as a Daylight scheme but who knows I maybe I can one day.

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 11:14 PM

I don't recall ever seeing a real steam locomotive that was all black...they often emitted smoke and steam, various surfaces got extremely hot, and weather and other passing trains contributed to colour changes while they were in service.

I've painted dozens of steam locos, both for myself and for several friends, too.

  Here are a few of them...

...I seldom apply heavy weathering, unless the owner requests it, like this one...

I tend to modify most of my own locomotives, but do so for friends if they request modifications or want heavy weathering.

Wayne

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, October 13, 2022 12:35 AM

doctorwayne
I don't recall ever seeing a real steam locomotive that was all black.

"Basic Locomotive Black" does not mean all black.

-Photograph by Kevin Parson

SGRR locomotives had red cab roofs and tender decks, as well as graphite/oil smokeboxes and fireboxes.

Still, basically black.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, October 13, 2022 10:02 AM

Hi there. I can suggest a few points based on my experience:

-There are excellent resources on the Web. Here is a very good one about remotoring: http://schutzer.net/Brass_Clinics/RebuildingBrass2008a.pdf

-If you like books, Kalmabach produced two about detailing steam locomotives. The latest is this one: https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/product/book/12812 . The book covers just about every aspect of these models, and most apply to brass.

-About painting, if you are aiming for realism, I would recommend that you look at some color pictures of the railroad you are interested in. Weathering is both road and geographic specific, I find. The Morning Sun books are excellent.

-Some engines are pre-coated with transparent varnish. It's usually the case if your model has very little tarnish. These engines need little preparation for painting: a good wash, a good primer, and good paint (oil or acrylic). Models with a lot of tarnish or pealed paint will require more work. My prefered method is to use a hobby sandblaster, using soda as a medium (not sand).

-Purchasing is probably the most critical step as all models are not equal in terms of running abilities and looks. I would recommend that you purchase engines sold as "running smoothly", at least until you get a bit of experience working with them. It's generally difficult to get spare parts for a specific engine.

-Do your homework about specific engines - some makers and some models are known to be worst than others. An Internet search using the model name and the term "review" in your keywords usually gets good results.

-NWSL is a key resource when it comes to getting spare parts for the mechanical components of the engine.

Enjoy!

Simon

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Posted by wrench567 on Thursday, October 13, 2022 12:53 PM

Photos of the locomotive you are modeling is the best resource. Gather as many and from all different angles. Try to get them in the same time frame. A steam locomotive will go through many shopping and class changes through it's life.

    Pete.

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Posted by thomas81z on Thursday, October 13, 2022 7:37 PM

wrench567

Photos of the locomotive you are modeling is the best resource. Gather as many and from all different angles. Try to get them in the same time frame. A steam locomotive will go through many shopping and class changes through it's life.

    Pete.

 

I totally agree with this 

i have 30 big boys & slowly weathering & painting them thru the various big boy books out there.

greys & smokey black/ smoke box silver & white calcium deposits & coal texture are all at home on a steamer

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, October 14, 2022 1:43 AM

thomas81z: Good to hear from you. I am glad you survived the storm.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by wvgca on Friday, October 14, 2022 7:42 AM

as you get into the repair end of things, you will slowly realize that 1] a resistance solder station is helpful, along with 2] various temperature ranges of solder do come in handy ...

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, October 14, 2022 8:48 AM

You Just do it.

You make mistaques

and then ewe dew it over

over and over again

until ewe git it right

the all of a sudden you aew an exsquirt!

ROAR

 

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 14, 2022 11:19 AM

BradenD
I would be interested in painting mostly one color schemes and not something as challenging as a Daylight scheme but who knows I maybe I can one day.

See if you can find one of Mel Perry's discussions on how he painted Daylight schemes.  Many if not most of his techniques would work for, or be adaptable to, painting GS locomotives.

The GS-5s were 'the best of the best' on SP, and deserve any level of superdetailing you care to give them.  Note... as demonstrated in the Ideal Plow thread... that there is no shame in taking out or replacing earlier attempts that you learn how to do better.

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Posted by dknelson on Friday, October 14, 2022 2:55 PM

My progression: first steam locomotive kit was a Mantua/Tyco 0-4-0T.  No valve gear so that complication was avoided but you did have to learn to set the bearings solidly into the frame slots, get the wheels on the correct side, fasten the main and side rods so they did not bind, fiddle around with the motor mount so that the gear mesh was optimal (smooth and reasonably quiet) and then painted (spray can) the boiler before installing.  I forgot to paint the frame first so that was brush painted.  The other thing learned: keeping track of parts and knowing what they are for and where they match up with the instructions.  Assuming nothing label everything.  There were no Post It notes back in those days.  Cool   And if you disassemble something even if the steps seem childishly obvious, make notes on everything.  

All of those skills, such as they are, carry over to more complex metal steam locomotive kits such as Mantua's own, Bowser, Model Die Casting, as well as to repairing and maintaining, and in a sense, painting brass.

Next I built a Mantua/Tyco Pacific 4-6-2 kit, and there the added complications were some detail parts to be installed including a separate cab, assembling and installing the valve gear parts so they did not bind, and not only getting the drivers on the correct side of the locomotive, but also the tender wheels that picked up current.  You make mistakes and you undo and rebuild and the process is very instructive.  This time I painted the frame at the same time as boiler/cab BUT I did have the presence of mind to mask where the frame plays a role in picking up and distributing electric current.  I also made an attempt at decals on the tender which I was not too proud of but that too is a learned skill

Again every one of those skills would translate to working with brass locomotives with a few exceptions: the Mantua/Tyco kits were pretty sturdy things and brass can be far more delicate.

An era change since then means that I am unlikely ever to have to install DCC in my steam but if I ever do, I suspect I'd start with the Mantuas as practice before openng up that can of worms known as a brass steam locomotive.

Dave Nelson

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