Contempt for derision's sake.

[Anonymous]

If I say "White", some one out there in Model Railroad forum land will say "Black"! This is O.K, we all have, and are entitled to our opinions. What I find troublesome is some are so positive "Black" is correct, they become incensed by the mere mention of "White"! No discourse can follow and tempers flare.

White is my opinion! For me to have an opinion on this public forum, where I expect there to be public scrutiny of my opinion, I will not have come to my conclusions based on ill conceived ideas! For you to have "Black" as your opinion, I expect you should be able to back up your opinion, also!

I find many, many times here when people disagree with an opinion posed, there is a loss of common courtesy and the discussion becomes derisive! Personally, I become defensive and then wish I could fling off a few good cuss words at the person on the other end!

This break down in respect for each other is amazing to me! We are, after all, talking about things which we have a common interest in. You would think of all people, people with a common interest would be less likely to get pissed at each other.

This ain't gonna change with my posting of this thread! However, I am interested in your opinions on this topic.

I hope you understand I have a penchant for attempting to post provocative threads. I think the USA is struggling with this very issue! The country is too polarized and we need to start seeing each others point of views and understand they are legitimate!

[gvdobler]

They're probably the same people that believe that they bought the only good car, they painted their house the only color a house should be, they go to the only true church, and of course they model the only railroad worth modeling.

Different strokes, folks.

Jon - Las Vegas

[orsonroy]

The country today isn't nearly as polarized as it was in the past. We've had the Revolution, the ACW, the 1890s and the Depression eras that were WAY more divided than today. Most of the "division" is a bored a lazy press trying to turn molehills into mountains (yet again).

That said, there IS a distinct lack of civility these days. Some things are black, some are white, and the rest are various shades of grey. That's a given. But people have forgotten how to not take things so personally.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DeSchane

If I say "White", some one out there in Model Railroad forum land will say "Black"! This is O.K, we all have, and are entitled to our opinions. What I find troublesome is some are so positive "Black" is correct, they become incensed by the mere mention of "White"! No discourse can follow and tempers flare.

White is my opinion! For me to have an opinion on this public forum, where I expect there to be public scrutiny of my opinion, I will not have come to my conclusions based on ill conceived ideas! For you to have "Black" as your opinion, I expect you should be able to back up your opinion, also!

I find many, many times here when people disagree with an opinion posed, there is a loss of common courtesy and the discussion becomes derisive! Personally, I become defensive and then wish I could fling off a few good cuss words at the person on the other end!

This break down in respect for each other is amazing to me! We are, after all, talking about things which we have a common interest in. You would think of all people, people with a common interest would be less likely to get pissed at each other.

This ain't gonna change with my posting of this thread! However, I am interested in your opinions on this topic.

I hope you understand I have a penchant for attempting to post provocative threads. I think the USA is struggling with this very issue! The country is too polarized and we need to start seeing each others point of views and understand they are legitimate!

Deschane sez: The country is too polarized and we need to start seeing each others point of views and understand they are legitimate!

Per the Monte Python "Argument Clinic" skit, the proper reply is: "No we don't and no they aren't".

Hey, I didn't come here for an argument.

Yes, you did.

No I didn't and the gainsaying of what I said doesn't constitute a proper argument.

Yes it does........[(-D]

Andre

[SpaceMouse]

Common down to South Park and meet some friends of mine.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Model railroading is mostly an art form, though once in a while there is some science involved.

There will always be people from different "schools", the black school, the white school, and all of the gray schools in between. Questions in this hobby are not usually able to be reduced to the simplicity of 2+2=4. That would constitute science.

[retsignalmtr]

this country is not as divided as some want you to believe. there are some people who consider themselves to be the elite, who want you to do what they want you to do and that everything else stinks. that theirs is the only way. they are in the minority. i have been on other boards of other hobbies of mine that were going along fine until they started in. then people who had the most to offer started leaving the boards due to the devisiveness created by the elitist contributors. i hope that doesn't happen here. we should be fair and balanced to all. there is no room for devisiveness here.. flaming and name calling don't belong here either. this is not just an adult hobby and we should be respectful of that and begin acting like adults.

[SilverSpike]

You got your black, you got your white, you have your cyan and magenta, and even some burnt umber. And how about some Southern RR Green. And there is still a lot of grey in there too.

Everyone has an opinion, and if you want someone to respect yours then you must be willing to respect theirs. You may not agree with their opinion, but give it the respect it deserves.

I just love this forum!

- Ryan [^][:D][^][:D]

[dehusman]

One of the problems in all areas is that people think that since they have an opinion that it is appropriate to share, that it is equally valid as any other opinion and that others want to hear it.

Quite often none of the above are true. The possession of an opinion does not carry a requirement to share it.

Dave H.

[SilverSpike]

Yep, Dave you are right!

There have been a few topics in the forum that I have stayed clear of because I felt that my opinion was not necessary and would not contribute in any way. Sometimes too, I have nothing to say on a matter.

Thanks,

Ryan

[leighant]

Houston TV commentator Marvin Zindler (whose reports were the real life basis of "The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas") said if you are get a Cadillac, it should be either black or white. If you are going to buy a colored car, it should be a Chevrolet.

On the other hand, when someone criticized the Mary Kay organization for having its top salesladies drive pink Cadillacs which became somewhat of a recognized company "trademark", the retort was, "What color Cadillac did your company give YOU to drive?"

So in the world of black and white and colors,
it's different views for different hues.

(For once, this is a controversy I can think of a way to model.....)

I think I have a picture of a Chevrolet that is both white and colored-- a two-tone.
http://www.railimages.com/albums/kennethanthony/acl.jpg

Happy railroading.

[Anonymous]

At 64, everything is gray. Everyone should use Code 83 and only be in HO. I also feel neutral about UP.

Like has been said before "opinions are like Bu** holes everyone has one."

I think that most of the flamming is done by the younger set.

I remember someone complaining about the color of the axels on the BLI 4-8-4 and how no one should buy one. I sent him an e-mail; and ask "how many do you own?"
The answer was "none".
If you don't own or want one KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF. I own three of them and it doesn't bother me.

Let me get off this soap box and go home.

Ya'll have a blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY
Bob

[Bob Hayes]

Andy, we need an off topic forum, which is where this thread should be. I don't see its' connection to model railroading. Just my opinion.
Bob Hayes

[grayfox1119]

Anyone who has been taught well by their parents, knows how to treat others, and that includes this forum. When I read some threads, it is obvious that some people have had a real bad hair day. And that is OK...we are all members of the human race, we are not perfect , we will get angry at times no matter how hard we try to act civil towards others. The key to de-fusing any angry comment, or real negative reply, is to just avoid firing back with something more harsh. If you must reply to an angry person, stay calm, give a civil answer or point of view, and move ON.
Control the power guys and gals... don't get short circuited.

[TurboOne]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

One of the problems in all areas is that people think that since they have an opinion that it is appropriate to share, that it is equally valid as any other opinion and that others want to hear it.

Quite often none of the above are true. The possession of an opinion does not carry a requirement to share it.

Dave H.

Dave, good words for all of us. 'Nuff said.

Tim

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

One of the problems in all areas is that people think that since they have an opinion that it is appropriate to share, that it is equally valid as any other opinion and that others want to hear it.

Quite often none of the above are true. The possession of an opinion does not carry a requirement to share it.

Dave H.

There may be no requirement to share it, but one of the fun things about the forum is sharing opinions.[:D][:D]

We just need to remember to not get personal or mean. Also, a little forbearance can be helpful too - when you use just the written word people some times sound harsher than they may have intended. I try never to take anything personally.

One of the truly fascinating things about people is how they disagree even when they have the same goals. When I was on the vestry of my church a few years ago, it amazed me how there could be so much disagreement when we all presumbably had the same goals.

In model railroading, on some level we all have a fascination with minature trains. Yet we have many many ways to express and enjoy that fascination. Toy trains, hirail, scale, operations, sound, model building, collecting, just running 'em 'round and 'round, large scales, little scales, in between scales, diesels, steam, electric, modern era, transition era, wooden era, 4 track mainline, pokey narrow gauge shortline, the list just goes on and on. It's a cliche, but also a truism - it's your railroad and the right way to model railroad is what gives you enjoyment.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Hey Mark, I guess I missed something, what brought all this on??[:)]

[Anonymous]

Colors are made for taste and there is no accounting for taste, nor should there need be. It would be a pretty dull world if it were otherwise, wouldn't it?

[fec153]

I might not agree with what you are saying, but I will fight till my death to defend your right to say it. It's as close to the original as I can remember.
Flip

[fec153]

Mark- Did you start this to get some HEAT up your way?
Flip

[PennsyHoosier]

de gustibus non est disputandum. That should clear things up. [:D]

[Fergmiester]

Hopefully everyone can agree that the wheels on our trains are round! and notta Flat.

Sad thing is people were burned at the stake for echoing such sentiment in the past.

We're seeing one our trends again of "uncivilized unrest" as someone let the Xpsurts out of the bag, again.

For shame.

Fergie

[twhite]

Actually, since I've been on this forum, I've seen very little outright flaming. Oh, a few little sparks here and there, but nothing that I would constitute heat enough to try and send a bomb over the Net to the instigator. I think we're all pretty civilised here--you want to see FLAMING, go to a Classic Film or Classical Music chat-room. And duck! Next to what goes on there, we're a bunch of Gentlefolk with a common interest. Even if I'm NOT a UP fan, BWAA-HAAH!
Tom [}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

[Anonymous]

Polarization is a tradition in this country extending before the revolution. An example are the writings of Jefferson and Madison. What's happened is civil discussion has lost out to ad hominem attacks. This forum has a good moderator that helps those few to remember to be civil or be removed. We do our part by not rising to the bait.
I do like well thought out and vigorous civil debate.

[brazos87]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mstein

Polarization is a tradition in this country extending before the revolution. An example are the writings of Jefferson and Madison. What's happened is civil discussion has lost out to ad hominem attacks. This forum has a good moderator that helps those few to remember to be civil or be removed. We do our part by not rising to the bait.
I do like well thought out and vigorous civil debate.

Very well put--a great problem with the written word is that tone and inflection are lost--what one may say verbally, comes across totally different as text alone.

I do agree with both sides on this issue (I should be a politician![;)] While young Robert may have made an innocent post, others do not want solicitations for "giveaways".

Follow me if you will.

Many people hunt out celebrities for autographs. Unfortunately, there are professional autograph hunters who will do no more than sell the signed merchandise online or in memorablia shops. This discourages many from signing autographs. I believe Robert was genuine, but what is to stop someone from putting a youngster up to this or faking being a youngster altogether to try to garner free equipment?

Words were exchanged by both camps which should have "previewed" their posts before being sent. It is easy to personally attack, more difficult to attack an opinion or stance. Hopefully, this incident will pass soon, and the forum will be better for it. Just my thoughts.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bob Hayes

Andy, we need an off topic forum, which is where this thread should be. I don't see its' connection to model railroading. Just my opinion.
Bob Hayes

Bob, My I thoughts are this thread is very on topic. I was just trying to get people to be nicer to each other. Despite what a lot of the posters here are saying, I see a fair amount of flaming and a lack of courtesy being displayed on this forum. It generally doesn't get to name calling or cussing out the opposing side, but it does exist and I feel is doing actually quite well.

My guess is some people are so callous, they don't even know they have done it!

[davekelly]

There is a fine line between passion about one believes in (I have a Digitrax system and I am totally in love with it - you can take it away from me only by prying it from my dead hands) and deriding someone else's beliefs (Lenz is junk). Of course sometimes one reads a comment "I tried Lenz and Digitrax and decided that Digitrax was superior" and sees "Lenz is junk" and then the reader's passion (I love my Lenz system) kicks in. Neither person meant to offend the other - yet each took offense. I'm sure I've posted things that ticked people off and for that I apologize. Often times all it takes is a few seconds to reread your post and some simple work smithing will smooth over possible ill feelings.

[Anonymous]

Dave, This is exactly what I am getting at. I see people constantly belittle other peoples suggestions or ideas on here. They come across as "The One True Expert"! Another thing that sets me off, is flinging simplistic/moronic/generalities at me or other people. Doing these things shows contempt for other people! I really try to keep from doing these things. It hurts my feelings when it's done to me and I have empathy for others, when it happens to them.

[Anonymous]

I don't recall where I saw this, but someone once said:

"When someone says or does does something that offends us, 4 out of 5 times there was no intention of giving offense. If we go through life constantly taking offense at other people, it says more about us than it says about other people."

I'm not taking sides, merely pointing out that most people are decent and rarely go out of thier way to be offensive. (yes, I've seen some other sites that seem to make it appear that I'm just wearing rose colored glasses - I just consider those to be the exceptions)

[davekelly]

Mark and captncliff,

I agree totally. There is no need to be a jerk on sites like this. Of course I agree with captncliff, most of the time folks are not intending to be mean or belittle others. I think the majority of the time it is caused by not rereading the post before hitting "submit." But then, there are those that really are jerks. Oh well. I think folks like that are missing out big time.