gmpullmanAfter a little surgery this morning my brake cylinders are properly parallel to the rail:
Ed: I lost track of this discusssion a while back. Is NKP 186 one of the new Rapido models?
On my monitor it looks gray and white.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI'm very happy with my whole loco roster - dollar cost average price, about $125.00
Is that the dollar cost average of purchases over 20/30 years, or what it would cost to obtain similar locos currently?
maxman ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm very happy with my whole loco roster - dollar cost average price, about $125.00 Is that the dollar cost average of purchases over 20/30 years, or what it would cost to obtain similar locos currently?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm very happy with my whole loco roster - dollar cost average price, about $125.00
Over about 30 years, a mix of steam and diesel. Most were purchased at what were very good prices at the time, while others were "typical" street prices at the time.
So there are some that I paid $200, $300 for, and others that only cost $50 when $100 would have been the typical price for that piece.
I bought three Spectrum 2-6-6-2's for $75 each, at a time when $150 was a deal.
But I also paid $250 each for two BLI/PCM Reading 4-8-4's when they offered "Stealth" versions - DC.
I have lots of early Proto diesels, Intermountain and Genesis F units, Spectrum, BLI, Rivarossi steam, just to name some.
It is 1954 here, these are the companies that made the prototypes I am interested in.
But here is the most important thing, they all look good and run fine, so I will not replace them just because someone new makes a "better" GP7.
Sheldon
SeeYou190Ed: I lost track of this discusssion a while back. Is NKP 186 one of the new Rapido models?
Yes, Kevin. I should have mentioned that.
NKP_186_after-brake-color by Edmund, on Flickr
Regards, Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut here is the most important thing, they all look good and run fine, so I will not replace them just because someone new makes a "better" GP7. Sheldon
Why not?
Maybe what I'm about to discuss belongs over in Kevin's locked thread.
My purchasing habits for just about anything involve getting new better stuff that replaces the older stuff. And the older stuff does not necessarily have to be worn out or broken. It doesn't need to be replaced.
Its best to keep what you have and run it into the ground, but things like cars, clothes, electronics, shoes, etc. People get new stiuff all of the time, and the old stuff still fits, works, isn't worn out. If a new item serves a situation better than an existing item; I think its pretty common to replace old with the new.
Now, a person might be fickle about it. Or trendy, just buying the new version because it is the new version, but most don't do that.
I guess I do churn many things I own...not frequently, and less so if the churn is costly (like someone who trades in cars every 3 to 5 years).
My wife buys purses...and seems to never be satisfied with our current vaccum cleaner, whichever one it is this year.
And I wouldn't say this happens with trinket disposable things. In your profession; you probably see people throw out cabinets, refrigerators, trim work, just because they are remodling something...and the stuff isn't broken or worn out.
We just sold our good old golf cart to buy a new one, because the new one has better seats and is faster.
For me, model trains, which are just hobby stuff, don't involve a different approach than anything else I buy.
And having said that, you have shown that you keep a lot things for a long time, not just trains, and take some pride in that. That's fine.
- Douglas
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But, in the era I model, the ALCO PA era, most of my diesel powered trains are pulled by anywhere from two to four powered units, so one might consider that a $400 to $800 locomotive as well. Sheldon
But, in the era I model, the ALCO PA era, most of my diesel powered trains are pulled by anywhere from two to four powered units, so one might consider that a $400 to $800 locomotive as well.
Kind of a stretch there. A coal hopper costs $40. I run a train of 45 of them. I don't consider a hopper to now cost $1800. Nor should anyone else.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL But, in the era I model, the ALCO PA era, most of my diesel powered trains are pulled by anywhere from two to four powered units, so one might consider that a $400 to $800 locomotive as well. Sheldon Kind of a stretch there. A coal hopper costs $40. I run a train of 45 of them. I don't consider a hopper to now cost $1800. Nor should anyone else.
Not apples to apples.
If I pull one 45 car train with one $600 steam loco, and I pull another 45 car train with three $200 diesels, then the motive power cost per train is the same.
That was my only point.
In actual practice on previous layouts, a 45 car train might be pulled by two Spectrum USRA Mountains given the 2% grades, locos I paid $100 each for.
And a similar train with diesel power might be powered with a 4 unit set of Proto2000 ALCO FA1/FB1 locos that I paid $89 per A/B set.
The rolling stock - many of them have more $ in trucks and couplers than the rest of the car since most of my fleet rides on Kadee sprung trucks that have been refitted with Intermountain wheelsets, even simple Athearn Blue Box cars with a little weathering. But only a small percentage of my rolling stock represents an investment of $40 each. But then again I have been developing the fleet for about 50 years now.
gmpullmanYes, Kevin. I should have mentioned that.
Thanks.
And... in the new picture you posted, it looks a proper blue.
DoughlessMy wife buys purses...and seems to never be satisfied with our current vaccum cleaner.
That is too funny. I could have posted the exact word-for-word comment about my wife.
Purses, purses, purses... none of them is ever "cute" enough.
Vacuums... Dyson, Hoover, Black & Decker, none of them ever work right. I even bought her a Milwaukee M18 "workshop vacuum", and it was no good.
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL But here is the most important thing, they all look good and run fine, so I will not replace them just because someone new makes a "better" GP7. Sheldon Why not? Maybe what I'm about to discuss belongs over in Kevin's locked thread. My purchasing habits for just about anything involve getting new better stuff that replaces the older stuff. And the older stuff does not necessarily have to be worn out or broken. It doesn't need to be replaced. Its best to keep what you have and run it into the ground, but things like cars, clothes, electronics, shoes, etc. People get new stiuff all of the time, and the old stuff still fits, works, isn't worn out. If a new item serves a situation better than an existing item; I think its pretty common to replace old with the new. Now, a person might be fickle about it. Or trendy, just buying the new version because it is the new version, but most don't do that. I guess I do churn many things I own...not frequently, and less so if the churn is costly (like someone who trades in cars every 3 to 5 years). My wife buys purses...and seems to never be satisfied with our current vaccum cleaner, whichever one it is this year. And I wouldn't say this happens with trinket disposable things. In your profession; you probably see people throw out cabinets, refrigerators, trim work, just because they are remodling something...and the stuff isn't broken or worn out. We just sold our good old golf cart to buy a new one, because the new one has better seats and is faster. For me, model trains, which are just hobby stuff, don't involve a different approach than anything else I buy. And having said that, you have shown that you keep a lot things for a long time, not just trains, and take some pride in that. That's fine.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But here is the most important thing, they all look good and run fine, so I will not replace them just because someone new makes a "better" GP7. Sheldon
Why not? Because it takes resourses away from other goals not yet reached.
I replace things when they are no longer serviceable.
I replace things when a new version REALLY does a better job and doing that task better will have impact.
When I buy a computer, I buy way more than I need, near the top of the technology so that it takes longer for it to become obsolete.
If my needs change I make adjustments. At the old house we only had about 3/4 acre of actual grass to cut but we had a pool - so I cut the grass and bagged all the clippings with this setup, it only had to be emptied twice to cut the whole lawn:
At the new house we have over two acres, no pool, less elaborate landscaping, way more trees. So I found one of these trailers for spring and fall cleanup, but I no longer bag clippings during regular mowing.
But yes, same tractor. Ther smart people who designed this machine set it up for both situations.
I understand how other people live, I don't want to afford that. I see it as wasteful.
But part of this question is what defines "better".
I don't need a "better" garden tractor, this one cost $8000 in 1996, it's really good, but more importantly it still does what I need done in an effective manner.
So what defines better with model trains?
Sound?, DCC?, more detail?, accuracy?
I have been over my thoughts on those topics.
Vacuum cleaners - in 45 years and two marrages, there have only been 5 of those things. One Kirby, one Electrolux, two Kenmores, and a Miele. But all of them were expensive.
Back to model trains - our modeling styles and interests are very different. I mean no disrepect to you or anyone, but the "less is more" approach leaves me cold.
So the realization that building a large layout is an extended commitment requires that some part of it will be a delayed gratifcation exercise, and replacing stuff before you even get things to a reasonable point of completeness just makes no sense.
This hobby is FULL of compromises - I choose the big layout, large curves, vast scenery, with the long trains, and the working signal system and the 30 trains hidden in staging tracks OVER squalky sound and perfect detail on every piece of equipment, DCC, etc.
So for MY GOALS, an Athearn blue box box car is in many cases "just as good".
And a Proto2000 GP7 will always be detailed enough, and in proper running order, run well enough.
I just have to ask, why do you own a golf cart?
SeeYou190 gmpullman Yes, Kevin. I should have mentioned that. Thanks. And... in the new picture you posted, it looks a proper blue. Doughless My wife buys purses...and seems to never be satisfied with our current vaccum cleaner. That is too funny. I could have posted the exact word-for-word comment about my wife. Purses, purses, purses... none of them is ever "cute" enough. Vacuums... Dyson, Hoover, Black & Decker, none of them ever work right. I even bought her a Milwaukee M18 "workshop vacuum", and it was no good. -Kevin
gmpullman Yes, Kevin. I should have mentioned that.
Doughless My wife buys purses...and seems to never be satisfied with our current vaccum cleaner.
Inside the house, the Miele is the best so far, small, light, basic, powerful, easy to keep clean and working.
In the shop, on the jobs, I have had the best luck with "shopvac" brand. We usually bust them up before they stop vacuuming.
Well, since we are talking freight car prices now....
I have learned my lesson about opening new threads from thoughts posted in this thread.
The Fleet Of Nonsense is a well varied set of freight cars because this is my passion. I love the freight car fleet of mid-century. There is so much variety.
Scratchbuilt boxcar built from my scrap box, basically free:
Basic boxcar built from an Intermountain kit, $20.00:
Pullman PS-1 built from a Kadee kit, $30.00:
Unique boxcar built from a Funaro & Camerlengo kit, $45.00:
Unique boxcar built from a Yarmouth kit, $65.00:
Ribbed boxcar built from a Sunshine Kit, $100.00:
Pullman pre-war welded boxcar in brass from W&R, $125.00:
-All Photographs by Kevin Parson
Look at the pictures and you can see that basically all of these freight cars have the same level of detail. Freestanding ladders and grab irons. Brake rod detail when visible. Nice looking sill steps.
Yet, they range in price from "FREE" to $125.00 not including trucks and couplers (except on the Kadee PS-1).
Why would I spend $125.00 on a boxcar that is no better than a $30.00 boxcar?
Because, they all fit my desires. I desire a highly varied fleet of freight cars. It does not matter what they cost. I love the free one just as much as the brass oddity. It is my decision to buy what I want.
I consider all of these simply "freight cars", not "$30.00 freight cars" or "$100.00 freight cars", they are all the same once painted and decorated. All are equal. All bring me joy.
I need all of them for total satisfaction.
I feel the same way about my locomotives and cabooses. Price does not really matter.
Passenger cars... well those I can take or leave... I haven't seen one yet worth dropping a Jackson on.
BTW: Please don't post any comments about how the scratchbuilt boxcar isn't really scratchbuilt because I didn't forge my own hobby knife from a cannister damascus billet made of old fish hooks.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And Ed, your Proto unit is missing the coupler lift bar it came with, note my picture from the bottom. Sheldon
And Ed, your Proto unit is missing the coupler lift bar it came with, note my picture from the bottom.
OFF TOPIC:
Sheldon, I located the two RDCs you were interested in. I think you asked me to contact you by message or Facebook. The message feature doesn't seem to be working and I'm not sure how to find you on Facebook. I have a Facebook account but the only thing I've ever used it for is to sign into websites that ask you to sign on through Facebook.
You can contact me via email at jecorbett19580@yahoo.com. This is my junk email address so I'm not concerned about making it public. I only check it when I am expecting somebody to send me something.
John-NYBW ATLANTIC CENTRAL And Ed, your Proto unit is missing the coupler lift bar it came with, note my picture from the bottom. Sheldon OFF TOPIC: Sheldon, I located the two RDCs you were interested in. I think you asked me to contact you by message or Facebook. The message feature doesn't seem to be working and I'm not sure how to find you on Facebook. I have a Facebook account but the only thing I've ever used it for is to sign into websites that ask you to sign on through Facebook. You can contact me via email at jecorbett19580@yahoo.com. This is my junk email address so I'm not concerned about making it public. I only check it when I am expecting somebody to send me something.
Email sent.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI replace things when a new version REALLY does a better job and doing that task better will have impact
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut part of this question is what defines "better"
ATLANTIC CENTRALSo what defines better with model trains? Sound?, DCC?, more detail?, accuracy?
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd a Proto2000 GP7 will always be detailed enough, and in proper running order, run well enough.
These are the answers I expected. Your goals or interests do not include a lot of the areas where the "advancements" have come over the decades; digital control, onboard sound, even LED lighting.
The products have evolved in areas that don't interest you, so the models you already have stay that much more relevant. I'm the same way with self-driving cars and parking assist features.
So to you, the advancement in these models comes from the details and possibly the quality of the paint. That's pretty much it.
The new models simply don't offer you enough to replace the old ones.
For a lot of us though, they do. A modern Genesis GP7 offers us much more than the Life Like Proto GP7 from 1998. Eventhough the detail quality is not that much better. A knew Loksound V5 locomotive is a lot better than a 15 year old QSI.
As far as keeping things and making them last...buying well and holding....that's more about money management over the long term than it is about trains. Just a way of life. That's how you buy things, and trains are no different.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI just have to ask, why do you own a golf cart?
For transportation, believe it or not. Where we live, we have 100 miles of cart paths, no sidewalks. The kids can drive themselves when they turn 15 and get a learners permit, and to school and to work since business have designated parking. The parental taxi service stops then, and its a relief. Kids can legally drive golf carts at age 12, as long as an adult is beside them in the front seat. Not to mention beating the traffic when leaving concerts, or picking up a couple of bags of groceries at Kroger.
Student parking lot at the local high school.
DoughlessStudent parking lot at the local high school.
It looks like The Villages. Prepping the kids for old age in Florida I see.
Douglas, interesting about the golf carts and paths. We don't have cart paths or sidewalks out here with the cows and corn fields....
In the town they have sidewalks, and taxi trams - you know, over sized public golf cart taxis.
We park our car near what we need to do in town and walk - it's a small town and not that busy/crowded.
I almost want to ask you more about where you live...... almost. Somehow I just get a feeling it would not be the right setting for me. My youngest kid is 38......
You are correct about many of the advancements in the hobby not being in areas of importance to me.
The advancements that matter most to me happened in the 80's and early 90's.
A lot of my locos do have LED lighting, but just headlights, no ditch lights, etc. They did not exist yet.
So it clear that a lot of this comes down to DCC and sound. I have operated many hours on other peoples DCC layouts, with and without sound. It did not win me over.
The same way my brain hurts when people around me listen to music on their cell phones.
Thanks for sharing,
SeeYou190 Doughless Student parking lot at the local high school. It looks like The Villages. Prepping the kids for old age in Florida I see. -Kevin
Doughless Student parking lot at the local high school.
I was not going to go there.....
Major topic drift as usual. What about the PA's?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761Major topic drift as usual. What about the PA's?
I tried to take some of the topic drift to a new thread and got yelled at for it.
riogrande5761 Major topic drift as usual. What about the PA's?
Ed posted some nice pictures, he seems happy with his. I do agree they look nice.
John is trying to get one but has heard some others are not as happy.
Other hearsay reports are mixed.
And again, I tried to buy some, but they decided not to make my roadname.
So I bought a few more NOS Proto2000 versions off Ebay....
So now I have three A/B sets, more than I really need but the prices were right and they run great, and I already had some spare parts on hand.
I had the day off today, and felt like taking it easy. But don't worry, tomorrow I will be back at work and not have time for this.
We should probably get back on topic.
I might start posting pics of my EZGO as much as Sheldon posts pics of his GRAVELY.
DoughlessI might start posting pics of my EZGO as much as Sheldon posts pics of his GRAVELY.
Wilson and Cicero are Club Car kind of guys.
IMG_6608 by Edmund, on Flickr
Sorry, just had to do it
Ed posted a picture of his Club Car, your turn!
Bonus points for including cats.
My dogs cut the grass.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Here are my two, they look good to me and I will be running them at the club on Saturday.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Kevin, your "nonsense" boxcars are terrific.
You could go into business selling these paint/decal schemes. Nothing fancy, just custom-finished basic Athearn boxcar shells. It's the paint/roadnames that make the difference.
I'd buy some...!
OldEnginemanKevin, your "nonsense" boxcars are terrific.
Thank you for your kind comment. At last count I had over 100 different ficticious roadnames in the fleet. I have no idea how many are there now.
Back in the 1980s and 1990s I made dozens of trades with others for sets of custom decals. This was all pre-internet. It was a lot of fun.
The quality of these custom made decals is very good. All of these 30-40 year old decal sets still work just fine.
I think 20 or so of the freight cars were lettered with individual letters, like the SOUTH RICKMORT car. I don't so this very often.
The make believe freight cars are really a hobby within the hobby for me. I really get a kick out of making these.
When I get my workshop up and running again (don't hold your breath), drop me an email and I will send you an SGRR freight car.
I often choose to upgrade to the latest or perceived by me to be nicest new model. I only have a modest railroad. If/when I get to 10 diesels, I start to think I might have too many, and everything gets run and earns its keep.
The professional engineer in me very much appreciates all the advancements that some manufacturers have made that now enable them to offer correct tooling for every possible roadname variation of some models. I find that to be way cool. Others would not care. I see what I see and like what I like.
Since I don't need 1000 freight cars or 100 locos to operate my layout, and I wouldn't feel comfortable tying up that kind of money even if accumulated over many years, I don't have qualms about having a few nice freight cars and state-of-the-art locos.
So, yeah, I often choose to upgrade or trade-in to the latest/greatest new model. Sometimes they turn out to be not what I expected (RS-11, also Genesis GP-7's in totally wrong paint color ie Maine Central, or B36-7 in horribly mismatched paint colors ie SPSF red and yellow both incorrect, far away from both prototype and Genesis colors). Sometimes they far exceed my expectations. I like ScaleTrains lighting features, but they do not happen to offer a diesel that I currently need.
Then my freight car roster adjusts to whatever era it needs to in order to fit with the locos. Right now I'm getting ready to sell a bunch of Tangent/Exactrail/Genesis/Intermountain/ScaleTrains freight cars. Some won't sell till a train show in February where I will share a table once again.
They are being replaced with mostly Kadee and a few Moloco freight cars appropriate for 1966 and prior. Many NKP locos were stll wearing full NKP paint in 1966, 2 years after the N&W merger, and I'm going to have plenty of NKP locos now that they are actually available (besides merely 1 PA-1) with more coming in spring.
John
The thread was asking about happiness, a judgment thingy, and that can vary amongst buyers for various reasons. Its relevant to explore motivations and goals when the topic is about happiness with a product.
Innocent friendly banter keeps threads from becoming an impersonal cold hearted listing of facts, IMO, and can be categorized as humorous intermission.
You know the undertones in model railroading threads across the internet. Many people take sides when it comes to producers because of their particular perspective on the hobby.
Are you interested in the Rio Grande PAs, or just new products from Rapido in general?
Semi interested. The PA's really fall outside of my primary interest time period but as often happens, it can be interesting to run a few trains from an earlier time period. Years ago I bought the Proto2000 D&RGW yellow 4 stripe PA, which wasn't a bad looking engine at the time. It looks like Rapido may be trying to make this D&RGW PA fit 50's and 60's with the late style grab iron details and toe creep way etc. but tossing in the side number boards as an option. But even though my disposable income is more than it used to be, the costs of engines and models in general are forcing many of us to make choices.