PM Railfan The model..... remember? C'est magnifique, oui? Kinda makes ya wanna hunt up about 150 or so loaded hoppers - doesnt it? Now who do we know has a layout big enough to handle such a calamity? Respects, PMR
The model..... remember? C'est magnifique, oui? Kinda makes ya wanna hunt up about 150 or so loaded hoppers - doesnt it? Now who do we know has a layout big enough to handle such a calamity?
Respects,
PMR
Years ago in a round robin group I was in, we pulled 110 cars with the Rivarossi model on a basement sized layout that I designed and hleped build.
My BLI/PCM N&W Class A was similar in performance.
My new layout will handle 100 car hopper trains, they would require being doubled in and out of the yard which will hold 50 34' cars on the longest tracks.
Planning to get some work done on the layout room today.
Sheldon
I just read most of the C&O Historical Society book "Chesapeake & Ohio - Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Locomotive - A Retrospective" by Karen Parker and Thomas W Dixon Jr.
Earlier in this thread there was some discussion about how fast the Allegheny could go and did go.
This book offers some reasonably well documented information on the subject, including records from the original field tests and dynamometer car readings.
During the testing, with freight trains as heavy as 14,000 tons, loco 1608 reached speeds of at least 46 mph.
In another section of the book, a number of engineer stories, many backed up by dispatcher and tower logs, clearly indicated that even with 5,000 to 6,000 tons the Allegheny's often reached speeds above 60 mph. And that the engineers all reported the engines to be smooth and steady at those speeds.
Several stories indicated that engineers often got messages from dispatchers and tower operators to "slow down".
Many of these same engineers indicated the 2-10-4 T-1's would not run above 60 mph, and that by 60 mph they would start to have noticeable agument pounding. It was also noted in the book that the T-1's were also hard on the track, especially at a number of down grade sharp curves in particular - whereas the Allegheny's were not.
Also, regarding troop trains during WWII, one engineer, Burks Ball, said that they regularly pulled troop, hospital, and prisoner trains of as many as 40 cars and a single Allegheny had no problem keeping the same schedule as the regular passenger trains....... with many of those 40 cars being heavyweight sleepers.
For those not familiar, 40 heavyweight passengers cars is something in the neighborhood of 4,000 tons.
I think it is clear that the Allegheny was a fast and powerfull locomotive, (and possibly the best balance of highest power, good speed, and high tonage abilty) just like the N&W Class A, and that the C&O often used them more for their power, and had conservative "speed rules". Rules not always followed when engineers found themselves with lighter trains and clear signals.....
Since we have learned to remake Timken lightweight rods, and since even the drawings for the forming dies for the rod eyes survive at NWHS, the next 'science project' after T1 5550 ought to be a set of the Timken rods as applied to the last 5 A locomotives -- I think with an eye to competing with the C&O Chessie mega-streamliner if the postwar market in fast trains to Cincinnati had panned out.
The great discovery, I think partly accidental, was that the 2-6-6-4 worked nicely as a "Berkshire-and-a-half" with lower augment and divided drive of very low rigid wheelbase, to go very fast. Fast Berks themselves only went back about half a decade when the N&W As were on the drawing board...
Overmod The Alleghenies were specifically designed to reach practical speeds 'in excess of N&W As' ... much of the oft-remarked excess weight "not disclosed to the unions" was in the complex and heavy steam circuit to and from both engines to facilitate that. It might also be noted that the PRR Q2 design, with one fewer driver pair and vastly easier steam mass-flow arrangements on the rigid frame, developed more peak horsepower in test than any as-built Allegheny, and had the turbine-mechanical V1 prototype actually been finished it would handily outpower anything the C&O had, including their secret Baldwin collaboration to steal a march on turbine locomotives... Just from the details given in this thread, I see articles, and perhaps a series, in MR on how human beings can achieve this level of practical detail. The digital microscope alone has me kicking myself for using the Keeler all these years...
The Alleghenies were specifically designed to reach practical speeds 'in excess of N&W As' ... much of the oft-remarked excess weight "not disclosed to the unions" was in the complex and heavy steam circuit to and from both engines to facilitate that.
It might also be noted that the PRR Q2 design, with one fewer driver pair and vastly easier steam mass-flow arrangements on the rigid frame, developed more peak horsepower in test than any as-built Allegheny, and had the turbine-mechanical V1 prototype actually been finished it would handily outpower anything the C&O had, including their secret Baldwin collaboration to steal a march on turbine locomotives...
Just from the details given in this thread, I see articles, and perhaps a series, in MR on how human beings can achieve this level of practical detail. The digital microscope alone has me kicking myself for using the Keeler all these years...
And the N&W used the Class A the way the Alleghenies should have been used. We know without question the A's hit 70 mph pulling passenger trains on a regular basis and pulled fast freights at 50/60 mph.
C&O, even with their superb trackwork, may have had concerns about the extra weight, which may have been a factor in keeping speeds down and primarily hauling long heavy trains with the Alleghenies?
I still suspect those troop trains and mail trains moved right a long at a good clip.....
Both the Allegheny and the Class A (and I will add a few Challengers to this list) represent the ultimate in high tonnage dual service motive power capable of handling the winding trackage of the mountains and valleys in the east.
Their shorter engine set wheel base compared with locos like the BigBoy made them able to maintain higher speeds on sharper, or more continiously changing, curves and do so with less loss of traction.
The C&O learned this when much smaller 2-6-6-2's basically out performed 2-8-8-2's on secondary routes in the mountains.
We like Alleghenies and Class A's here on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL...
I remember an article about 20 years ago. The builder of the original prototype mis represented the weight by tens of thousands of pounds. The railroad was quite upset because some of the planned routes had to be either not allowed or bridges needed reinforcement and rail size increased. Some spring rigging was redesigned to take some weight off drivers. I don't remember much more. I believe the speed restrictions was because of the weight and trying to reduce dynamic augment.
Pete.
Bruce, A true pleasure to the eye seeing such all around wonderful work. Thanks for sharing. Regards, Peter
Some more info on the locomotive......
https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-resources/popular-topics/allegheny-locomotive
https://www.flickr.com/photos/piedmont_fossil/5492533671
The backdrop aside, it's a really nice job, and very realistic. The sunlight helps a lot, although it can show defects. In this case, I don't see any that stand out. I would call this a work of art.
BruceK Much of the weather details required me to use a digital microscope such as painting all the rivets...
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Regardless of the authenticity background, that's a very nicely-done job of photography.I do agree with Sheldon, though...
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnother thought, not a criticisum, while very realistic as to how that loco might have looked in 1955, I can't say that I would ever weather any of my equipment to that degree of "hard use and no care".
I prefer a somewhat used or in-use look for most of my locomotives, but I am modelling an era that predates most (but not all) diesels.
Wayne
My information comes from a friend of mine, now deceased who ran them. There max speed was 45 MPH which they rarely did. They were designed to haul coal drags and had small drivers thus more torgue. There was an incident when a stranded diesel powered passenger train was pulled by an Alleghenney with 125 loaded coal cars to the next station. No steam powered locomotive not even the Big Boys of the UP could out power the Alleghennies.
Correct background or not (which to me is irrelevent), that model is pretty amazing!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
No denying thats a model - but WOW! Did you ever do a great job of trying to fool us. Well done! We see what youve been doing during your Covid time off. Im happy to see someone do one of these. This is a remarkable job. I wish i had your patience and concentration skills! Not to mention the photography and lighting had to take some time too. Yessir - very nice job indeed.
Got a nice hack to go with it?
(HP is more like 7500, 7800 tops on a best day. Top speed 75+/- with train @ prime conditions. Service* was drag, fast freight. Weight.... yeah, better get two scales for this one - shes a millionaire. Locations - Va, West Va.)
(* I know the C&O used an Allegheny ever so rarely on passenger trains, but i cannot recollect if Virginian ever did.)
Evening
The 2-6-6-6 Virginian has always been a favorite of mine since I was a little Kid paging through the train magazines only looking at the pictures. Always wanted one of those bad boys but haven't found one yet. Some don't appreciate the front end of that thing but I think it looks rather sinister
I suppose after hitting the rails as a workhorse for years out in the elements, steam, soot, cinders, storms and the scorching sun on a black slate. Those things don't exactly look like a shiny new Cadillac off the showroom floor anymore.
I think your weather job looks excellent Bruce, quite realistic indeed
I think you should bounce over to WPF and show us guys some other photos of yours. If not while I'm tending shop with my peculiar smell and all, maybe some other weekend then...
TF
mobilman44 Wow.......this is just too real! Assuming this really is a model, the photo is amazing.
Wow.......this is just too real!
Assuming this really is a model, the photo is amazing.
There can be little doubt it is a model. As someone else has already pointed out, the background is the dead giveaway. It's from the western US, not Virginian territory which would have lots of trees.
Bruce,
Very nice work. The scenery however does give it away a bit - those locos never ran anywhere that looks like that.
Another thought, not a criticisum, while very realistic as to how that loco might have looked in 1955, I can't say that I would ever weather any of my equipment to that degree of "hard use and no care".
caldreamer,
By what information are you basing your statement about the top speed of 45 mph?
Neither the C&O or the Virginian used these locos to the capacity of the design. The loco was designed for 5,000 ton trains at 45 mph, that does not mean that 45 mph was its top speed, that means 45 mph was its peak efficiency in terms of tonnage.
The C&O did occasionally use them for passenger trains and 23 of theirs had steam heat and signal lines for that purpose. How fast they ever went, no clear records.
As freight locomotive both railroads used a superior fast freight loco as a drag freight loco, in an age when diesels were already knocking at the door.
All the conventional engineering math about steam locos suggests that these locos would have been capable of speeds into the 60 mph range at least, and may have done that pulling troop trains during the war.
BruceYour work is outstanding!!! Please share some photos of your model railroad.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 last July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
A beautiful model and an excellent pic. However, there is a disconnect between the loco and the background. The background looks clearly like something you find in the Southwest US, like NM, AZ, CO, or UT, but not in Virginia. In contrast, the Virginian Railway was limited to the Eastern US and never even reached the Mississippi.
Fantastic job, well done. BTW: The Alleghenneies were the most powerful steam locomotives ever built. 8000 HP at the drawbar. Top speed was only 45 MPH. Probably never ran that fast. One pulled 100+ loaded coal cars from the West Virginia coal mines. My favorite steam engine. If I was into steam this would the engine I would purchase. The best one in terms of running was the Akane brass model. Smoothest running steam engine I ever saw. It had that gigantic Pittman motor and could pull like no other engine I ever saw. Not as detailed as the moden ones, but with a little detailing it would outclass any of the newer models.
Assuming this really is a model, the photo is amazing. The weathering is extremely realistic, and the piping, etc. detail is absolutely outstanding!
When I examined the pic closely (magnifier), I found only two clues that this is in fact a model. The first is the front coupler (gotta have that long shank), and the second is small beige trackside weeds (there may be real ones like that however).
This is a terrific piece of work, and I thank you for sharing!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Very nice. Someone once said of them, " They have a face only a mother could love." Because of the air pumps mounted on the firebox. You did an outstanding job. Thank you for sharing.
A heavily detailed and weathered HO Scale Allegheny steam locomotive. Made from a Rivarossi model. Fully functional and equipped with a LokSound 5 DCC decoder.
Edit:
For all that comment on the background and not being appropriate for the Allegheny. I use this photograph I took of an abandoned lumber mill in Naches Washington (close to my home in Yakima) for all my stack focus locomotive pictures. I specifically created the foreground board with track, hand picked rocks for the ballast and the dirt and weeds to match my background photo and resolution. This photo is a whopping 5300x2500 where you can zoom into a single bolt. Much of the weather details required me to use a digital microscope such as painting all the rivets and peeling paint on the front handrails. The front boiler pipe insulation wrap was done using .0005” thick foil leaf as any kind of tape would be three times too thick.
Though it can’t be seen in this photo, all the running gear has pitted steel, grease and oil. The plastic drive pistons were replaced with thin-wall stainless steel tubing.