richhotrain John, as they say, been there, done that. One important thing that I did on the new layout was to drop feeders from every piece of flextrack to ensure continuous power. Equally important, this time around, no kinks, no humps, no valleys in the trackwork. Tried for laser straight trackwork with good results... Rich
John, as they say, been there, done that.
One important thing that I did on the new layout was to drop feeders from every piece of flextrack to ensure continuous power. Equally important, this time around, no kinks, no humps, no valleys in the trackwork. Tried for laser straight trackwork with good results...
Rich
This can't be over emphasized! I thought I'd done a good job on the subroadbed when building my present layout, but had to go back in and fix some humps and valleys. Very hard to do after the track is laid. Dan
York1 Even though the layout is only four years old, I learned a real lesson: I used some extra wires I had in my shed, and they were a variety of gauges and colors. I thought at the time that I would remember what was what. Yeah, sure. I now have wires that are track wire feeders, 12 volt building light wires, and 3 volt street light wires, all with different colors. That is one of the major reasons I can give for starting over.
Even though the layout is only four years old, I learned a real lesson:
I used some extra wires I had in my shed, and they were a variety of gauges and colors. I thought at the time that I would remember what was what.
Yeah, sure. I now have wires that are track wire feeders, 12 volt building light wires, and 3 volt street light wires, all with different colors.
That is one of the major reasons I can give for starting over.
One of the major reasons that I made sure to color code (mostly) the wiring on my new layout. Black and red for track with some black on some non-WS JP lighting. I only have two places where I have the common wire hooked and they are nowhere near the lights. Blue, yellow and green with the green chained for remote turnout controls. And if I ever have to dissamble the layout, to make sure the slide connectors get hooked up properly again.
MisterBeasleyOf course, older wiring was an impenetrable rats' nest.
Agreed!
York1 John
The thing that kept me going through the teardown of my previous layout was thinking about all the things I would do differently and presumably better. I didn't know where I was moving to, so I couldn't plan for the next space, but I knew the things I wanted to change. As mostly an around-the-walls layout, I had crammed things into inaccessible places, where uncoupling and fixing simple derailments was difficult. I have built a very nice carfloat terminal, but it's so awkwardly placed that I seldom used it.
I wanted to replace my old Code 100 track with Code 83. My icing platform for ice bunker reefers should be on a long passing track, not a short dead-end spur. Of course, older wiring was an impenetrable rats' nest.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thanks, everyone!
Over 40 years ago in my first home, I began a layout with a poor track plan. I realized this before starting the scenery and performed some major surgery to what I had begun. I ended up with a better track plan but looking back, I think I would have had an even better one if I had started with a blank slate. I see now I could have made much better use of the space I had.
If I were you I would do two track plans, one a modification of what you have and the other what you would do if you were to start over. Decide if the latter would be enough of an improvement to justify starting over from scratch. Had I done that with my previous layout, I think I would have started over.
It really depends on how bad you did on the first go round. If everything runs well it is easy to slice and dice in new things.
Sounds like you are ready to do some planning. I would make a list of the features I wanted to add to the layout. With perhaps a size estimate of each feature. And perhaps a second list of features you want to remove. And again a size to be saved for each feature removed. Is your existing benchwork big enough for what you want? How much bigger can you make your benchwork? Can you keep using your existing bench work with some add ons?
Then you want to get some graph paper and draw your new layout. Use an architect's scale and a compass to get the curves right. I am in HO so I don't know how much radius you need in N. In HO 18 inch is the bare minimum, lets you run 40 foot freight cars but no full length passenger cars. 30 inch lets you run about anything. Figure out what radius you want to run in N. Can any/all of your existing trackwork be used? Or do you need to make a clean sweep of it? Anyhow, keep drawing track plans til you get one you like. If you cannot draw it, you probably cannot build it.
I did not glue my track down with caulk, fearing problems later when I wanted to move it or just adjust it for better running. I made all my roadbed out of pine to take track nails. Actually I used a bandsaw to resaw 3/4 inch pine into 1/4 inch roadbed.
I would not worry about salvaging track from the existing layout. New track doesn't cost that much, and will be straighter and cleaner.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Hi John
I would suggest you might consider doing something I haven't regretted.
After a 35-year break from model railroading while life happened for a while, I decided to make my fifth and final layout.
After taking everything that I had learned from the past layouts and further research, I decided to go to the Dollar Store and buy the large railroad board (poster board), tape them together and make a full scale layout plan. I guess that would only work for you if your layout isn't huge.
I actually spent over a year planning my layout and revising it over and over. You should have seen my big erasers and how fast I would burn through them.
I had a set of stencil radius that I made from that poster board that ranged from 17 to 28" radius. I followed all the rules I learned here on the Forum.
After over a year I ended up with a layout plan that I was happy with. Four bridge levels on a 4x8 N scale layout. Nothing under a 17" radius or over a 2% grade. I was after a wilderness mountain layout that I felt I finally achieved.
Just one more time I went to the Dollar Store and bought another set of poster board to change the layout once more. I cut out the final layout plan into a stencil and transferred it to the new poster board making it so 16" radius was hidden in the back corner tunnels and only 18" radius was viewable thus eliminating the 17" radius in front.
It was around that time my wife was beginning to think I was crazy as she had lost her kitchen table for over a year. I sure was glad I made that one last change when my brother gave me the Northern Pacific Challenger for my birthday.
Careful planning, careful planing is 95% of the game. The beautiful thing you have that I didn't is you have a layout to still have fun with while you are planning your next bulletproof masterpiece.
Another thing I found working on that plan for over a year is the anticipation and excitement just kept building and building. All the imagined pictures in my head is what kept the planning fun.
You may very well be able to revamp the layout you have. I don't know what all your situations are. Just sharing some food for thought John. Remember what others have told you in whatever you decide to do.
Just have fun is what it's all about
TF
York1 I live in a very sparsely populated area, and there are no other model railroaders I know around.
I live in a very sparsely populated area, and there are no other model railroaders I know around.
John, I see that you live in "flyover country". There is a great recent country song by Jason Aldean called Flyover States. Great lyrics that really make the case for flyover country. Good luck with your new layout planning.
Alton Junction
Good morning, everyone.
Thanks for all the input. As I sat here reading your posts this morning, I think it became clear to me to tear out almost all of the layout and start over.
The basic table will probably stay as is, since it fits the room so well. But beyond that, I think I will start over. This time, I have some graph paper that I will work out exactly what I want before I start.
This whole topic is why I love this forum. I live in a very sparsely populated area, and there are no other model railroaders I know around. The posters (you) on this forum are able to give me good advice and encouragement. Thanks!
Hi John. When I was allowed by the Household Authorities (Dawn) to use the spare bedroom as a train room, I had a Scottish based layout.
It was great fun. Even my eldest grandson joined in at times. Even though he played with the road vehicles that were on the layout.
When my other grandchildren were around three years of age they wanted to run trains. To make things easy for them I built Leeds Sovereign Street Station for them to run little 0.4.0 locomotives and four wheeled freight wagons. Easy for them to handle.
When I joined the two layouts together the grandchildren loved it because they had more running track. Trouble was I was becoming disenchanted with everything.
It was then I sat down and decided exactly what I wanted on the layout. Basically a 70% rehash of everything. All the things I am interested in had to be included. A farm. Industrial Estate for my road haulage vehicles. A scrap yard. Countryside scenery. A road to place my collection of buses.
I then searched the archives and wanted a reason as to why a railway was at Sovereign Street. Finding out that the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Company wanted their own line to York from Dewsbury via Leeds, the route was 'surveyed'.
Although the line was never finished (because of The Great War), it was on my layout.
With a large diesel locomotive fleet, a diesel depot was a must. Leeds Sovereign Street must remain. I have lovely memories of the area.
Anyway, with the must have list and a reason why the railway was there, I rebuilt the layout. The list and reason are very important.
Now when the grandchildren visit they see things on the layout they like and want to join in. The thing is now they want to run the diesels and not the little steam engines.
Liking the steam engines myself I now run them in a 1914/1919 timeframe.
The beauty of the two timeframes on the layout is the scenery remains the same.
I can run either timeframe.
Operate Leeds Sovereign Street on its own.
Operate the diesel depot on its own.
Clarence Dock can be operated separately.
In essence five layouts in one operated as my mood takes me.
Then the grandchildren take charge.
John. Make a list on exactly what must be on the layout. Have a reason why the railroad is there in the first place. Build it accordingly. You are a very good modeler. Have fun with the layout. If you make a mistake, so what. Don't beat yourself up. (If I beat myself for every mistake I made I would be in hospital permanently)
Looking forward to seeing your layout.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
York1I have decided to make major changes to what I have...I can change just parts of the layout, or change the entire thing. It seems that it may be harder to change just parts rather than just take it all apart and start over.
FWIW, I've tried a couple times to salvage parts of a layout after a move. (I've moved far more times in my modeling life than should be allowed-most not by choice) I've made it work once, and it wasn't as good as if I had just started fresh and built it to fit the overall plan instead of forcing the plan to fit the section I wanted to re-use.
Hope this helps.
Mike
When it isn't fun any more, what would a grownup do about it? He/she'd figure out what needs modification or 'deletion', and then begin the process. When it no longer works, no longer meets your minimum requirement, it's time for change. It might be wholesale, as in a complete tear down and redo, or it might be a significant renovation of what exists.
I have built four different layouts, each an improvement over the previous one in terms of what needed fixing. But on my second layout, my first strong effort, I had one bad section of tracks almost four feet long that wouldn't work with one or two locomotives. I decided to soften the ballast and rip out what I had there. It took about half a day, but within a couple of hours I was grooming ballast with the newly laid tracks in place, wetting it, and then applying glue. I never had problems there again.
Sometimes the solution is a draconian measure. Dynamite if you must, but when a sledge or a recip will do, and the item has to go....
About 2018, I ended up having to build a new layout due to medical reasons (not mine). My late father had to go into the hospital and then ended up having to move into a senior living facility in town. My old layout was at the ranch I grew up on. I knew that I wouldn't get out to work on t any longer. With some help from friends and family, I ended up moving pieces that I had started on that were going to be a yard expansion to my apartment. Had to rearrange my bedroom a little to get it to fit. I later moved an existing section from the old layout to "complete" the benchwork. I ended up shortening that section and narrowing one of the new pieces to fit the room. The yard trackplan ended up getting changed only a bit to fit the new plan. (I did almost completely redo the track on the existing section, however.) It was sad to abandon the old layout which I had been working on for many years but it was needed. (I did save all the buildings, cars and all the turnouts as I didn't do any ballasting.)
About 2 and a half years ago after my father passed, I ended up buying a house with a good sized garage that holds my layout. I then build a new corner section and reused yet another section by turning it 180 and designed from there.
A new layout gives you the opportunity to do things over again and/or keep things that you like but put them in a new space. (A team track area and woodchip loading facllity was rebuilt on one end. I also found a spot for a printing plant that I had built as well.)
York1Have you done something like this, and how did you proceed?
John, I have started over a few times.
Some of these have been major improvements to the existing layout, like when I rebuilt SGRR #1.
Other times, I have torn down everything and started over.
I only save my buildings, switch machines, and some electrical components. I have never saved track.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Looking at rebuilding my layout, I find that more daunting than starting from scratch. At 74 years, do I have time to do a full rebuild? I don't know. I don't think it would be much different in time.
Hello All,
York1I'm completely afraid!
In my profession, I coach adults through their fears more than the attainment of practical skills.
Skills, and confidence, develop with the recognition and conquering of fear(s).
With my hobby- -model railroading- -you'd think with a 4'x8' pike it would be "Set & Done".
I have "improved" the track plan and broadened my knowledge at the expense of ego.
Don't be afraid of improvement.
Most adults perceive "change" tied to complacency and the fear of failure.
"Why do I need to change if I haven't 'failed'?"
The toughest aspect of teaching adults is the realization of "how" to learn is a challenge in itself.
York1I've learned a lot of things building this, and I think I want to build new using the things I've learned.
Embrace the change and challenges!
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Well, it depends upon how much you want to change. Assuming you are not changing the benchwork but just the track plan and structure placement? Its not that big of a deal once you get started, but I'm experienced at it, more than I want.
Its a very timely question. I have rebuilt my new layout three times now in the past year, just never got satisfied with the track positions and industry spacing until this week, in fact.
The building process over the past year involved unsoldering track feeders, track joints, and taking up caulked track and roadbed. Made it a point to blitz the layout with effort over the holidays and finally finished two days ago.
Caulked track can be salvaged. Any bits of caulk taken up can be removed with 90% drug store alcohol wash and a stiff bristle brush. I think cork roadbed is sturdy enough to hold together if you're careful. I used foam roadbed and that takes up fine. (homasote roadbed will fall apart in chunks if you try to take it up after being caulked down).
I use N scale code 80 joiners for my Code 83 Ho scale track. Most can be reused, but some are too full of solder and must be discarded.
What I do know is that the changes you want to make will likely knaw at you constantly if you don't make them.
My advice is to take the plunge. It will be satifying to have made the changes, IMO.
Others have taken up parts of the layout even after scenery has been installed for years and have blended it in just fine.
- Douglas
For years, I kept making modifications to my existing layout. Some worked well, some didn't. So, in early 2018, I demolished the old layout and built a new one in its place. And, like you, I had learned a lot from my old layout that I could use in building the new layout.
One important thing that I did on the new layout was to drop feeders from every piece of flextrack to ensure continuous power. Equally important, this time around, no kinks, no humps, no valleys in the trackwork. Tried for laser straight trackwork with good results. Changed the ballast from walnut shells to real rock.
It is a big layout, just like the last one at 45' x 25', so lots of time and effort involved in completing it. My encouragement to you, John, is to go for it. Build a new layout with all of the satisfaction that comes from it.
Four little words.
"Model Railroading is Fun".
If it's not FUN to you... figure out what is fun to you. And prioritize that. The good news is that you'll get a lot of specific advice, options, and experience to figure both those things out!
Frank said it best: "Truth suffers from too much analysis."
I retired five years ago and began my first layout four years ago.
I have decided to make major changes to what I have. The changes wouldn't include locomotives or rolling stock, but the layout itself.
I'm completely afraid!
I can change just parts of the layout, or change the entire thing. It seems that it may be harder to change just parts rather than just take it all apart and start over.
For information: N Scale. DCC. All flex track. Soldered connections. Caulk attaching track to cork roadbed. Feeder wires every four feet or so.
I guess my question is ... have you done something like this, and how did you proceed? Take out everything? Try to cut into certain parts of the railroad to add other parts?
I've learned a lot of things building this, and I think I want to build new using the things I've learned.