riogrande5761OTOT, yeah, RTR stuff is getting insanely expensive. Here is an example: The old MDC 4700 Covered Hopper has been upgraded and the most recent release is listed at a whopping $49.99! Yeah, that's right: https://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=FMC+4700+Covered+Hopper+RTR&CatID=TH&NYA=True $49.99 for a model that used to be an MDC kit, but granted it comes with wire grab irons and a metal roof walk.
That wasn't the one I expected to see, but rather the even older (and smaller) one...of which I apparently have no picture.The original one had a one-piece body casting, with cast-in-place ladders and grabirons, a separate roof, with add-on round hatch covers, and some detail parts for the hopper outlets.
I changed the hatches to square ones, modified the outlet hoppers, then removed the cast-on ladders and grab irons, replacing them with metal ones...
...six done, two more to go.
They're certainly not Tangent or Genesis quality, but I think that they look quite a bit better than their original appearance, and cost only a few bucks to do the bunch of them.
Wayne
wrench567 As for the new RTR cars. I love the scale fidelity but they are cost prohibited from mixing into a fleet of older cars with cast in details. To me it wouldn't look right.
As for the new RTR cars. I love the scale fidelity but they are cost prohibited from mixing into a fleet of older cars with cast in details. To me it wouldn't look right.
Some put the higher detail near the front of the train and the lower after so it isn't noticed as much, but that's a personal thing I guess. Also, if the lower detail cars are weathered well, you don't notice the lack of detail as much. Remember Mellow Mike? He would take Accurail cars and weather them nicely and they looked quite good and the lack of stand alone grabs wasn't really noticed.
OTOT, yeah, RTR stuff is getting insanely expensive. Here is an example: The old MDC 4700 Covered Hopper has been upgraded and the most recent release is listed at a whopping $49.99! Yeah, that's right:
https://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=FMC+4700+Covered+Hopper+RTR&CatID=TH&NYA=True
$49.99 for a model that used to be an MDC kit, but granted it comes with wire grab irons and a metal roof walk.
My local shop gives me really great discounts on in stock track and turnouts. If it's not in stock then I shop around. There are bargains if you're patient and search. Before I packed up I had stocked up on rail and CVT ties and turnout kits. So when space opens up I can continue with the modular layout. Pete.
Pete.
For Peco code 83, it's getting hard to find bargains unless you buy used at trainshows. The code 83 #8 jumped 10 dollars in the past year from $29.99 to $39.99. Other track products have gone up too.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
It really is crazy how brass prices are often now cheaper than RTR plastic. Its why I no longer really buy BLI engines any more, opting for cheap brass engines for much of my PRR fleet.
When I show off my brass engines to friends Im not showing off all the money I spent, but rather the work Ive done to such engines in restoring and detailing them (as opposed to just buying more expensive RTR).
That being said Im only buying low to midrange brass (PFM United, Gem, Westside, Hallmark and Sunset), not the high end stuff (Key, GPM, TCY, Challenger, Overland, etc).
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
Ok. I see that it's working again.
As for comparing my brass to plastic steam engines. My brass runs flawless. Except for one plastic steam locomotive, they all have had issues. Both of my P2K 0-6-0 have had the draw bar wiring connectors fall apart with one killing the decoder. I've had broken gears, side rod screws strip out, chuff sensors go bad and details fall off.
My local shop gives me really great discounts on in stock track and turnouts. If it's not in stock then I shop around. There are bargains if you're patient and search. Before I packed up I had stocked up on rail and CVT ties and turnout kits. So when space opens up I can continue with the modular layout.
I have been trying to reply for the past few days but I keep getting a forbidden code 403 for some reason. I hope this goes through.
Pete:
Your observations seem quite accurate. I can't really disagree with anything. Another observation that I noticed, is that brass steam is now very difficult to find with the road name that I model. I'm not sure about some of the other roads
Steve
Modeling the B&M Railroad during the transition era in Lowell, MA
Welcome back Pete!
I would actually be interested in a side-by-side comparison of that brass model running wise with the plastic version of the same model.
I know brass can be ultra smooth, but you might be impressed with how smooth the new plastic version is, even on less than perfect track. And the detailing of plastic now rivals, or even beats, brass.
And there are kits to be found on occasion, Accurail still makes them, Bowser still has a few, ScaleTrains has a couple of "kit classics" cars, and plenty of new old stock Athearn BB, Roundhouse, Intermountain, and other kits can be found if one looks in the right places.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
wrench567A second observation is the cost of plastic steam engines rivaling and sometimes surpassing the the price of brass of the same class. I bought a brass PRR H9 factory painted and equipped it with a sound decoder and speaker for almost $100 less than the plastic alternative.
RTR high end plastic engines have gone up a lot. If equipped with sound, diesels are typically in the $250 and 350 price range. Steam is double that.
Rolling stock in kit form is hard to come across. The RTR stuff looks good but costs an arm and most of the leg.
If you can find a good sized train show to attend, you'll probably find a lot of kits for nice prices. Alot of kits are being sold on the secondary market.
As for RTR stuff, it varies. The high end stuff like Genesis or Tangent had stayed in the $30-45 range for some years but in the past year they've jumped up in price, partly due to higher labor costs in China and also shipping costs have gone way up. Here is a comment from Athearn not long ago regarding the major increase in the price of HO Trailers:
It's the fixed costs. The trailers themselves don't cost that much more to make than they used to- think incremental wage and material price increases. But the cost to ship and transload that one model (inside a shipping container) has quadrupled in the past year, hence the price increase. The shipping cost is roughly the same no matter what the item is. It's felt a lot more on the cheaper items - a $10 increase on a $28 item seems like a lot compared to a $10 increase on a $330 item.
But the cost to ship and transload that one model (inside a shipping container) has quadrupled in the past year, hence the price increase. The shipping cost is roughly the same no matter what the item is. It's felt a lot more on the cheaper items - a $10 increase on a $28 item seems like a lot compared to a $10 increase on a $330 item.
Track prices have almost stayed the same.
Actually not. Early last year I bought a box of 25 Atlas code 100 flex track and it was $98 at MBK. Later in the year the price went up by about $50 for the same box of 25! Peco code 83 #8 turnouts used to cost $29.99 each. They went up a couple months ago by $10 to $39.99. So track prices are indeed going up and sharply!
Pete sez: '.. The more things change the more they stay the same. It's nice to be back. I just hope the local club has improved in management. One more reason I left the hobby over a decade ago.
Pete..'
The management will almost certainly have changed, but maybe not the leadership. Or the culture. As you said above, 'Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose,' except you said it in English.
The hobby is steeped in tradition. That's why steamers are still very popular. In time, they'll fade in popularity, maybe within another 30 years when the last of the boomers has gone and there are so few of their sons and daughters who want to keep fiddling with steam, or with the prices in that diminishing market.
I hope you noticed that, not only have the plastic models risen in price, but their reliability, features, and detailing, including their accuracy, have risen commensurately. That's a good thing for the heavy majority of us. I just paid for a Broadway Limited 4000 series Santa Fe Mikado that is a distinct step above what I paid for, and received, in the way of the vaunted Model of the Year Hudson, also from BLI, back in 2005. Not only that, but it seems the industry has accepted that they're going to have to entice buyers with capacitors installed. Again, that's a boon to the hobby.
It would be interesting to gently awaken John Allen and John Armstrong, let them get their legs under them, and then take them over to my layout. I'd show them how we do things now, what it costs, and how popular the hobby appears to be in general terms. I think they'd be pleased. Maybe not about the prices, because that seems to be a hard reference point for many. But the variety, the availability, and the level of function provided by advances in technology....sound on board, lighting effects....I think they'd want to come back permanently. Wouldn' you?
Hey gang.
After being a decade away from the hobby due to family and life issues, I started by digging out most of my locomotives out of storage. After going through them one at a time they all have survived and run very well. All my steamers were already equipped with sound and DCC. Only a couple of diesels had sound but all have DCC. So I started a campaign to sound chip the diesel fleet one or two at a time.
One of my first observations was how small sound decoders have become and in reality not gone up in price. Some in fact are less expensive than a decade ago. Now most have six or more functions where earlier you needed to wire in a function only decoder for more lights.
A second observation is the cost of plastic steam engines rivaling and sometimes surpassing the the price of brass of the same class. I bought a brass PRR H9 factory painted and equipped it with a sound decoder and speaker for almost $100 less than the plastic alternative.
Rolling stock in kit form is hard to come across. The RTR stuff looks good but costs an arm and most of the leg. Layout grade rolling stock with fewer fine details seem to have given way to extra fine glass case quality.
Track prices have almost stayed the same. There are bargains that can be found. This has been a surprise.
All my observations have been about HO scale only. Other scales may be wildly different. Posts on the forums seem to never change and recycle frequently. Examples are "What decoder for this?: How do I do that? Foam or plywood? And such.
The more things change the more they stay the same. It's nice to be back. I just hope the local club has improved in management. One more reason I left the hobby over a decade ago.