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Approximating a Different Structure—Not About to Quit the Project Yet

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  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 92 posts
Posted by Neptune48 on Tuesday, December 28, 2021 9:58 AM

Thanks, Dave.

I started using AutoCAD professionally in 1988, and since then its 3D capabilities have expanded a lot.  The 3D solid modeling is very powerful, and will output directly to a 3D printer file format.

Some time ago I drew and had printed N scale UP CA-5 caboose shells to fit on the Atlas caboose body.  They came out very nice.

Two chimneys (one a spare) were tucked inside the shell for protection until I was ready to paint and assemble.

The UP caboose shell is on the left and the Atlas factory shell is on the right.

It's too hot in Phoenix to airbrush in the garage during 7 months out of the year, and now that it's cool enough I've been dealing with other issues.  They're still waiting for the photoetched roof walks and paint.

Regards,
Bruce

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, December 28, 2021 3:07 AM

Hi Bruce,

Your drawing is impressive! 3D printing continues to amaze me.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Neptune48 on Monday, December 27, 2021 6:03 PM

On a hunch, I reworked the fixtures 3D printing design to have the stairway fully assembled, with railings.  It increases the price considerably, but it will save me a lot of time assembling the stairs and fabricating railings from brass wire.

Fixtures rework

I'll have to wait a little while before ordering the job.

The windows will be glazed with overhead projector film.

Regards,
Bruce

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Posted by Neptune48 on Monday, December 27, 2021 1:46 PM

hon30critter

 

 
Neptune48
That's pretty much what I did, except this door worked out to be 6'–8"×3'–0", a standard residential size.

 

Hi Bruce,

I hope you don't find my suggestions to be condescending in any way. You obviously have a very good understanding of how to do what you want to do. Sometimes I tend to run off at the mouth with my explanations without giving people enough credit for knowing how to do things.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

Not at all, Dave, I appreciate any suggestions.  Like you, I'm an explainaholic, so this is perfectly acceptable.

I studied architecture briefly in college and have some rudimentary knowledge.  My brother is a real architect and a model railroader, so we often swap notes.

If you have the October 2019 issue of Model Railroader, the plans for the East Los Angeles Depot (just a few miles from Hobart) were mine.

Regards,
Bruce

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, December 27, 2021 12:23 AM

Neptune48
That's pretty much what I did, except this door worked out to be 6'–8"×3'–0", a standard residential size.

Hi Bruce,

I hope you don't find my suggestions to be condescending in any way. You obviously have a very good understanding of how to do what you want to do. Sometimes I tend to run off at the mouth with my explanations without giving people enough credit for knowing how to do things.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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  • 92 posts
Posted by Neptune48 on Sunday, December 26, 2021 10:41 PM

hon30critter

 

 
Neptune48
I still can't find a way to keep the scale correct, but that's a small matter.

 

Hi Bruce,

When I am designing a building to be scratchbuilt, I usually start by measuring a single man door. Depending on the era, a single industrial door would be about 84" tall by 32" - 36" wide, excluding any transom lights or sidelights. Older doors might be a bit smaller. If you have a picture (ideally a straight on view) of the structure you can figure out all the dimensions using a door as a reference point. In N scale, I don't think that you need to be extremely precise, i.e. to the inch. What it important is to get the proportions correct. Personally, I think the proportions in your drawings look pretty good.

I'm not sure if that helps or not.

Dave

 

That's pretty much what I did, except this door worked out to be 6'–8"×3'–0", a standard residential size.  That yielded stair risers at exactly 7" and the distance between floors at just over 10'.  I don't think that was unusual in 1926, when the last Hobart tower was built.

Like you and others have advised, exact measurements in a world of selective compression are not as important as getting the model to look right.

In the meantime I was able to figure out how to import the drawing into the Silhouette software at the right scale.  Online research indicates I can at least score .030" sheet styrene to start very precise cuts.  There are some tweaks needed in the staircase and some test fitting with paper or card stock before it's ready for 3D printing.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Bruce

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, December 26, 2021 9:50 PM

Neptune48
I still can't find a way to keep the scale correct, but that's a small matter.

Hi Bruce,

When I am designing a building to be scratchbuilt, I usually start by measuring a single man door. Depending on the era, a single industrial door would be about 84" tall by 32" - 36" wide, excluding any transom lights or sidelights. Older doors might be a bit smaller. If you have a picture (ideally a straight on view) of the structure you can figure out all the dimensions using a door as a reference point. In N scale, I don't think that you need to be extremely precise, i.e. to the inch. What it important is to get the proportions correct. Personally, I think the proportions in your drawings look pretty good.

I'm not sure if that helps or not.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 92 posts
Posted by Neptune48 on Sunday, December 26, 2021 9:17 PM

hon30critter

Hi Bruce,

I'm glad to see that you are back on track! I apologize for missing the fact that you are working in N scale. The only N scale work that I have done was building a double head track signal in brass for a friend. I had built several in HO scale so making the smaller model wasn't all that difficult, but it certainly was fussy work.

You have solved the issue with getting the doors and windows made so now you are 3/4s of the way there. I will be interested to see the results of your efforts.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

Thanks, Dave.

I have this Silhouette Portrait cutter that I bought a few years ago and have yet to take out of the box.  I think it's time.  I just need to get a handle on the software, and fortunately it imports AutoCAD dxf files, since I've been using it since 1988.  I still can't find a way to keep the scale correct, but that's a small matter.

Regards,
Bruce

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, December 26, 2021 8:12 PM

Hi Bruce,

I'm glad to see that you are back on track! I apologize for missing the fact that you are working in N scale. The only N scale work that I have done was building a double head track signal in brass for a friend. I had built several in HO scale so making the smaller model wasn't all that difficult, but it certainly was fussy work.

You have solved the issue with getting the doors and windows made so now you are 3/4s of the way there. I will be interested to see the results of your efforts.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, December 26, 2021 2:18 PM
Gidday Bruce, I was about to give you a stern talking to, but I’m pleased that you’ve found a fix.
 
To be fair, 99% of my scratch building has been in HO but, while it may be difficult and or frustrating, nothing is impossible!
 
That said, the 3D printing cost appears to be very reasonable vs the time required to individually “cut out” each part from styrene.
 
My 2 Cents BTW, 0.020” wire would make a completely suitable door knob.
 
Have Fun,
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by Neptune48 on Sunday, December 26, 2021 1:31 PM

First of all, thank you hon30critter, NorthBrit, richhotrain & rrebell for your responses.  I'll try to consolidate my reply to all four at once.

Issue No. 1: It's N scale.  That nice Walthers model is HO.

Issue No. 2: It's N scale.  Although my original plan was to do at least the walls, including the relief detail, in styrene, the windows and doors are a different matter althgether.  For instance, the doors are approximately 1/4" wide x 1/2" high and .030" thick.  The doorknob is 18 thousands in diameter.  This is a bit small to try and scratch build.

Issue No. 3: It's N scale.  Tichy has a fine selection of doors and windows, but none were quite the fit for this structure.

Issue No. 4 (actually the original source of my problem): I couldn't find a way to get Shapeways to print just doors and windows, or even the whole 2½"x1½"x1¾" building, or to tell me why it wouldn't

Now that I have recovered from my 2:00am frustration, I did some more trial-and-error, and I might have stumbled onto a solution.

When I submitted the fixtures as a group of separate items, Shapeways's software choked.

Separate Fixtures

But when I attached them all to a single base, the software got happy.

Fixtrues Joined

Now I can print the fixtues and the roof...

rOOF

Total cost of printing both is $44.83 — not too bad for custom.

So now it seems Hobart and I are back on track.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Bruce

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, December 26, 2021 8:21 AM

Neptune48

Shapeways says they can't print it, BUT THEY WON'T TELL ME WHY!  I've wasted several hours on this stupid project and I'm ready to chuck it.

Do any of you know of a better alternative?  I've had it with this outfit.

 

Shapways only dose certain types of printing, what you need is a lazer emultion type printer  (they keep changing the name of this type so you have to look it up).

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, December 26, 2021 7:00 AM

Neptune48

I've wasted several hours on this stupid project and I'm ready to chuck it.

Neptune, shame, shame. Grumpy

As others have said, you are halfway there. Yes, styrene sheet is the starting point. This can be done, and it can be a lot of fun. All of the materials are available including windows and doors and handrails.

Walthers makes an interlocking tower that closely simulates your model. It is Walthers Item No. 933-3071. Check it out as well.

https://www.walthers.com/interlocking-tower-kit-5-x-1-7-8-x-4-quot-12-7-x-4-8-x-10-2cm

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, December 26, 2021 5:34 AM

As Dave mentions,  use styrene  sheets.    A very popular method of building structures this side of the pond.

Another form of modeling structures is the use of card. 

It is my preference, but both are good.  A case of what you like working with.

However you decide to build the building  don't give up.   As Dave  says   you have done half the work already  (and that is the hardest half).

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, December 26, 2021 2:35 AM

Hi Neptune48,

First, it is not a stupid project! It is a great project!!

Neptune48
Do any of you know of a better alternative?

Yes. It's called styrene and it works really well! Yes, you will have to do some physical work with your hands and a few tools, but I promise that the rewards will far outweigh the learning curve.

Here is a scratchbuilt styrene signal house. I fully admit that I borrowed the concept from a kit available through Walthers:

I used Tichy windows and doors. The rest is Evergreen styrene siding and angle strips. The stairs are scratchbuilt too. It has internal and external lighting. It was an easy build.

You already have all the details drawn out. That's half the work! In other words, you are half way there already! Go for it!!

If you have questions, please ask!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 92 posts
Posted by Neptune48 on Sunday, December 26, 2021 1:55 AM

Shapeways says they can't print it, BUT THEY WON'T TELL ME WHY!  I've wasted several hours on this stupid project and I'm ready to chuck it.

Do any of you know of a better alternative?  I've had it with this outfit.

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Posted by Neptune48 on Friday, December 24, 2021 10:20 AM

In his excellent book Union Pacific in the Los Angeles Basin, Jeff S. Asay devoted 4½ pages to the Hobart tower.  It was the last operating interlocking tower in the state of California, its last day of service being April 13, 2002.  The historical significance of this structure is all the more reason to preserve its legacy, and makes its loss all the more sad.

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Posted by Neptune48 on Thursday, December 23, 2021 8:27 PM

That ought to look really good.  I presume your Walthers kit is HO scale, as I have found slim pickings in N.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, December 23, 2021 5:13 PM

I have a tower kit I'm going to put in the throat of my staging tracks.  I think it's a Walthers model.  It has a lot in common with your drawings.  I have an old Faller piece of interlocking equipment that I think will look good through the windows.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Approximating a Different Structure—Not About to Quit the Project Yet
Posted by Neptune48 on Thursday, December 23, 2021 4:32 PM

 

Rather than hijacking BlazmoIntoWowee’s post “Trying to Approximate a Structure,” here is a new thread on something I’ve been working on lately.

 

In 1967 I had a summer job as a switchman on the Union Pacific, out of the East Yard in Los Angeles.  Many of the extra board shifts I drew involved switching the South Industries.  We would pull our strings of cars down the “Pedro Main” — the San Pedro Branch — to service various industries along the line.

 

The Pedro Main started at the Horbart Wye at the west end of the yard, and went south past the Hobart tower, which protected the interlocking between the Pedro Main and the AT&SF double-track main line.  Union Pacific built and staffed the tower, with AT&SF splitting the costs.

 

The tower closed in 2002, when control of the crossover moved to the AT&SF/BNSF dispatcher.
 
Eventually transients moved in and trashed the place, starting several fires.  The railroad(s) demolished the building a few years ago.

 

Hobart tower would make a nice medium-sized interlocking facility for my layout, with the added nostalgia value.

 

There aren’t many pictures online, and no drawings that I could find.  I was able to find photos of all four sides, so that was a good start. 
 
 
Using AT&SF drawings for some basic dimensions, I imported the downloaded JPEG files into AutoCAD and began to draw.  Some of the elements were traced from the photos, while others were approximated to compensate for perspective.  I came up with something that looks pretty close, especially for N-Scale.
 
The building is mostly stucco over wood frame, with concrete external stairs, metal pipe railings, and wood doors and window frames.  The hip roof appears to be flat clay tiles, with round tiles on the ridges.

 

 After drawing all four simple elevations...
 
Elevations
 
... I began to extrude the design into a 3D model.
 
Northwest View
 
Southeast View

The whole structure (2-5/8”x1-5/8”x2” in N Scale) would cost over $60 at a 3D printing service.  So far, I haven’t made a printable 3D model of the roof, which will take a bit of tweaking before it passes their design checks.

 
Roof Detail
 
I’m also looking at 3D printing just the details: the staircase, windows, doors, HOBART sign, etc. and to make the walls out of styrene, laminated to produce the relief detail.  Here the parts have been collected, and, except for the HOBART sign, the supports for printing have not yet been added.
 
Hobart Architectural Details
 
I'll be the first to admit that I'm a lot stronger on research and design than in the actual building, but this seems to be a simple enough project to get me off my behind and do something.
 
Regards,
Bruce

 

Tags: Hobart , Structure

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