Wow, so it turns out my notifications weren't turned on. Thank you for all the thoughtful responses. I am indeed interested in Pier No. 9 as well as the extension to the right. And to that, I found actual measurements of Pier No. 9 here: https://issuu.com/pennadmin/docs/pier_9_small
I may try to butter up my friend with a 3D printer, or I may have a go at one of the other techniques listed here.
You can measure existing buildings and lot size demensions by using the path option on a Google Earth program, it just takes a little practice. Also be sure to use scale ruler when constructing styrene or card stock walls together, start simple and dont be in a hurry. Mico Mark Tools, Wathers Kits, and Hobby Link offer most all of what you will need to get started, a few years back scratch i 100 % scratch built a Bag House for the Ashland Steel section of my HO layout, the 3rd floor roof line is 90' scale feet high, its a rectangular three sided / fasle front struture with lots of detail & LED exterior lighting, including 3 exhust stacks, corregated roof and side wall shething, two Walters side track hopper discharge funnels for loading ash into Hopper Cars, i also added window/doors /cage ladders, and a 3rd floor exterior jib crane. Most all of my layout buildings are kit bashed or scratch built, including the Walthers rolling mill & electric arc furnace buildings, in addition there are 4 kit bashed & scratch built warehouses on the 3'x14' layout located at the rail & barge intermodel container terminal, all highly detailed & lighted. Planning & building structures have become my favorite part of our hobby over the years. Respectfully what you are attemping to start with is at a 4-5 skill level. But in any case don't give up & best of luck with your comtemplated project. Bayway Terminal NJ
Blazo, wherefore art thou?
Alton Junction
Do you have a 3D printer? I've found drawing the building in a drafting program (Google Sketchup for me), is easier than cutting it out from styrene. It is still considered scratchbuilding, since you are doing the design work but in a different media.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
I agree with Bruce. Searching out information for layout ideas can be a lot of fun. So much information readily at our fingertips. When I was building my own layout, I was scratching my head about the prototype track arrangement at a certain location. I finally, decided that a "wye" had to have been in that location and continued with the track design. When I later discovered the website, "Historicaerials.com", I was able to verify from an 1898 topo map that the prototype railroad had indeed located a "wye" right where I thought it would be! Talk about great information! I am currently helping a friend build an N scale version of the Ventura County Railroad in Oxnard, California. I was able to verify the track plan by using Google Maps and Street View and was also able to learn of changes in the track plan over the decades using Historicaerials.com.
I also use Google Maps and Street View when searching for signature or other interesting structures to scratch build for my layout.
Hornblower
Thank you, sir. It's as much fun for me as any other aspect of this hobby.
Regards,Bruce
Bruce,
You did some great research!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
richhotrain Neptune48 It looks like BlazmoIntoWowee is only interested in the JARKA unit of the building next to the Pier 9 warehouse. Let's assume he's interested in only a single unit of the five, which makes the project much more simple. If I were a betting man, I would bet that he is interested in the facade of the Municipal Pier #9 structure. He may have tried to draw a distinction between the building essentially blocked by the loco and the buildings to the left of the loco. JARKA wasn't a building but, rather, a stevedore company that operated in many locations loading and unloading ships at docks. Rich
Neptune48 It looks like BlazmoIntoWowee is only interested in the JARKA unit of the building next to the Pier 9 warehouse. Let's assume he's interested in only a single unit of the five, which makes the project much more simple.
It looks like BlazmoIntoWowee is only interested in the JARKA unit of the building next to the Pier 9 warehouse. Let's assume he's interested in only a single unit of the five, which makes the project much more simple.
If I were a betting man, I would bet that he is interested in the facade of the Municipal Pier #9 structure. He may have tried to draw a distinction between the building essentially blocked by the loco and the buildings to the left of the loco.
JARKA wasn't a building but, rather, a stevedore company that operated in many locations loading and unloading ships at docks.
Rich
Hence his statement, "The Jarka building is the beauty I'm talking about."
Were I a betting man I just might take you up on that.
A little more research reveals that Pier No. 9, built in 1919, is now the Cherry Street Pier. After being vacant for years, it's been repurposed for shops, art studios and restaurants. It opened in 2018.
But I still think BlazmoIntoWowee wants just the small office building next to it. If that is the only picture he saw, it seems to me doubtful he would have enough information to be interested in the pier building.
I hope he posts soon so we can find out if any of these posts will be useful to him.
I would suggest building a few styrene kits first to get your feet wet. You will need to learn basic kit mechanics like trimming off plastic flash residue and gluing parts together. You'll also have to learn how to paint a structure and perhaps how to add mortar lines between the bricks. None of these are hard tasks, but doing them a few times will make you more comfortable with tools and techniques.
I'm also a fan of making cardboard mockups, or more likely cardstock mockups. These don't have to be fancy, just good enough to get the size and shape and see how parts fit together. I like to see how structures interact with trains, so I don't either make the structures too small or too large.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Unless I missed it being said already, I would try starting with the Walthers Municipal Pier kit.
Walthers - Pier Terminal - Kit - 12 x 16 x 7-1/4" 30 x 40 x 18.1cm - 933-3066
I would put two of them together and then do just a little bit of scratchbuilding to make a a new triangular cornice.
Jim
Neptune48 It look like BlazmoIntoWowee is only interested in the JARKA unit of the building next to the Pier 9 warehouse. Let's assume he's interested in only a single unit of the five, which makes the project much more simple.
It look like BlazmoIntoWowee is only interested in the JARKA unit of the building next to the Pier 9 warehouse. Let's assume he's interested in only a single unit of the five, which makes the project much more simple.
If you look closely at the fifth picture in my post above, you can see where the original double door was removed and replaced by a window. A closer look at the original photo shows all the windows have been replaced, probably at the same time as the door, with what looks like more modern aluminum mullions. The original work, probably wood, has a bit more detail to it. You can also see where they filled in the door they didn't exactly match the mixed colors of the original brick.
Since the third unit has a door, I'd use that as my model. I'd do the original double doors rather than the single modern door, the original window design, and I'd include the pilasters to define the sides of the building.
If this is to be a free-standing structure, you can freelance the sides any way you like. Google Earth's 3D Buildings option provides a hint at what the rear looks like.
If your budget and computer skills allows it, consider buying a Sillhouette cutter. Design the walls in the Sillhouette software then use it to score the plastic brick sheets (it won't cut all the way through). Use an Xacto knife to finish the cutout as needed. I have scratch built several structures this way. And like an earlier poster suggested, you can test the design by cutting cardstock before you start cutting the real materials. If you are using commerically available windows and doors (like from Tichy), you can use their dimensions to design the cutouts and they fit perfectly.
Bruce did some excellent legwork finding clear shots of that very large structure (I do have to love how some wag wrote "The Rug Beater" on that Pennsy switcher).
For something like this I'd go with kitbashing and having a "close enough" tolerance for capturing the look and feel of the building without demanding exactness, since there will have to be considerable selective compression anyway. You might be surprised by how convincing this can be provided the structure is neatly done and conveys certain central ideas.
You have the main terminal structure and then a series of five repetitive architectural elements off to the side -- with that gentle arch over the inset windows. From a kitbashing perspective that repetition can be very helpful. As a practical matter a scale model that big would dominate most layouts so I'd think in terms of the terminal structure and then 3 of the repeated arched series, with the one including a door in the middle.
So focus on the central ideas: a large imposing facade at one end, with lower and very repetitive looking windows extending from it. The specifics are less important than the central ideas.
Consider for example the Walthers municipal pier dock terminal structure conveys the same impression as the prototype without looking anything like it.
This may sound crazy but even tunnel portals or arched viaduct pieces may give a usable start combined with fairly simple brick structures on either side.
So could the lower side level of the Walthers gas plant
Even the front of the relatively inexpensive LifeLike Fire Engine House could convey the essentials of that very large prototype facade in a drastically reduced manner.
Much more pricy but cutting out the central tower even the Woodland Scenics firehouse captures something of the look of the center part of the pier terminal building.
There are sources for brick arches that could be used for the side building
The LifeLike police station kit might also suggest some usable parts for a kitbash
The key to successful kitbashing is not to be narrow minded when looking at a potential source of materials. The great kitbasher Art Curren would make Xerox copies of kit walls and then study what could be done using sissors and scotch tape rather before cutting into plastic.
Dave Nelson
BlazmoIntoWowee Hey all I'm using an inspirational photo as a basis for a small layout and I'd like to get as close as I can to a signature structure in it. Problem is I have no idea where to start. I haven't kitbashed or scratch built before, but I am keen to learn some new skills. Here's the photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/76677346@N04/22052786564 The Jarka building is the beauty I'm talking about. Any input is welcome. Thanks!
Hey all
I'm using an inspirational photo as a basis for a small layout and I'd like to get as close as I can to a signature structure in it. Problem is I have no idea where to start. I haven't kitbashed or scratch built before, but I am keen to learn some new skills. Here's the photo:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/76677346@N04/22052786564
The Jarka building is the beauty I'm talking about. Any input is welcome. Thanks!
Using Google Earth®, I searched Philadelphia for the Ben Franklin Bridge and Christopher Columbus Blvd. based on the caption from the original picture from Flickr.
Here is the Pier 9 building, to compare to the original and verify it's the right place:
Turns out, it's a pretty long building:
...but not very deep:
Anyway, here's as straight a shot as I could get out of Google Earth:
To reconstruct the size, you need to start with a known dimension. Typically, commercial building doors are 7 feet high, which is the best starting point in these pictures
And while I'm at it, here is a straight-on shot of the Pier 9 Façade:
Hope this helps.
Hi BlazmoIntoWowee,
Welcome to the forums!
Do you know where the building is located, or do you have any other pictures of it? I did a search but I couldn't find any references to it.
I have to agree with Mark. The Jarka building would be a challenge for an experienced scratchbuilder let alone a beginner. However, if you are mechanically and artisticly inclined you might be able to do what you want. As Mark suggested, it would be a good idea to practice on some simpler structures. No doubt your layout will have other buildings, and even simple things like trackside sheds will give you a feel for scratchbuilding.
I have scratchbuilt a number of structures but nothing as fancy as the Jarko Building. In any case, here is how I would approach the task:
- Try to find more photos.
- Decide how big a building you can fit on your layout. Based on the size of the tractor trailer parked behind the locomotive, I'm guessing that a full scale HO replica of the building would be between 45" and 50" long. It could be much longer if the building extends to the right, out of the photo. That sized structure would dominate a big layout let alone a small one.
- Make a drawing(s) of a selectively compressed version of the building that will fit in your space. Focus on the architectural highlights that make the building attractive to you. Also, depending on where the building will be located, you might want to make the building narrower from front to back if it is going up against a backdrop. Don't model anything that can't be seen!
I use 3rdPlanIt to do my building sketches. It works great and it allows you to make multiple changes easily. (I also strongly recommend it for layout design, although it might be a bit much if you are only doing a small layout).
https://www.eldoradosoft.com/
- Make a card stock or cardboard 'rough' copy. Seeing the building in 3D will give you a better idea of how the proportions work. You don't need to worry about cutting out doors and windows. Just draw them on the walls.
- Once you have finalized your design, make a list of materials. Styrene is perhaps the easiest material to work with and it would allow you to make the architectural details like the corbels on the main roof soffit without too much difficulty. I suggest making jigs up so you can cut details like the corbels all the same size, or get a NWSL Chopper. Evergreen Scale Models makes a huge variety of styrene strips and sheets. Walthers has excellent HO scale brick sheets. Tichy makes windows and doors. I would suggest spending some time in the Walthers online catalogue to see what else is out there in the way of architectural details.
https://www.walthers.com/
https://evergreenscalemodels.com/
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/
https://nwsl.com/collections/the-chopper-iii/products/the-chopper-iii
Some of these might be useful too:
https://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/HOScaleModular
There is another alternative but it won't be cheap. That would be to have the key elements of the design 3D printed. You would have to find someone to create the programs if you can't do that yourself, and you could either do just some of the components, or do the whole building. $$$!!
Please don't hesitate to ask any questions. There are tons of aspects that I haven't touched on like what kind of glue to use and how to add lighting....
Cheers!!
BlazmoIntoWowee,
I just started my first layout several years ago, with no skills whatsoever.
I put together several building kits, but I was not happy with the results.
I decided to try scratchbuilding, and it has become my favorite part of model railroading.
I agree with the other posters. There is a skill level that is learned, so I would suggest to just jump in and try it.
Remember that nothing is permanent. If you don't like the first results, try it again.
We always love to see other modelers' projects, so please take some pictures of your building progress and post them. I'm sure others here will give encouragement and suggestions.
York1 John
That building looks a bit complicated for a first effort. My suggestion would be to start by scratchbuilding a simpler brick structure first, to get some idea of what works for you and what doesn't.
You can get sheets of "brick" in different scales. I'd start with that. You can also get window and door castings from several different vendors. Build a simple rectangular brick structure with a door and a few windows, and progress to more complicated structures. If you have no use for your first efforts, you can always sell them at a train show later.
But even if you jump right into the deep end by starting with this complex building, don't be discouraged if it doesn't come out like you hope it will. You can always try again, and you'll be surprised how quickly your skills will develop.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
You might try a kitbash. There are lots of brick building kits available and one just might have enough of the desired design characteristics to serve as a foundation for a kitbash of the Jarka building. Take a look at the Smalltown USA kits as these are inexpensive and already provide mix and match options. You'll likely have to scratch build the arched entry but that's a lot less work than the entire structure. Add the Jarka sign and any other details that will suggest your signature structure and most layout visitors will be convinced that you've accurately copied the Jarka structure.