I was straightening up the layout room when I came across a box containing all my old DC steamers from a previous layout. Most of them were Rivarossi UP steamers, two Northerns, two Challengers, and a Big Boy. I was aware I still had those and have been contemplating an ebay sale. I got a couple of them running using address 0000 on my DCC layout but it required a lot of lubrication to the rods before they would budge. I found one thing I had completely forgotten I had. I think it's a Bachmann 4-4-0, the UP Jupiter which if memory serves was one of the two locos that met at the Golden Spike ceremony. I think it was an impulse buy because I don't remember ever running it. It's over 40 years old. I was unable to get it moving despite a good deal of lubrication. I did notice something curious. While the engine stalled, it felt like there was vibration in the tender, not the loco itself. I see no electrical connection between the two. Could it be that the motor is in the tender and not the loco? I remember buying some dirt cheaper Pemco Pacifics that had the motor in the tender and the loco was just an empty shell. I really have no plans for this loco but can someone shed light on just how it operated. If I could get it running I might get a few bucks for it on ebay.
The motor is in the tender. A mid-19th century 4-4-0 provides precious little space in the boiler and firebox to hide a motor. European and British makers have used the same approach to power HO and OO steam engines. Some run very well, some don't.
If you can get it running and it's in good shape in terms of finish, etc, you can get more than " a few bucks" - current production MSRP is $265 and a discount dealer is selling them for $100 bucks off. Of course, you'll be offering a used item, but don't sell yourself short Bachmann - 4-4-0 w/Wood Tender Load - Standard DC -- Central Pacific "Jupiter" (silver, black, blue, red) - HO (Part #51003) (trainsetsonly.com)
Hi John
I have a brass GN with the motor in the tender. The body style is too thin to fit the motor like the Jupiter's are.
Those Jupiter's are hot little sellers on eBay and attract some decent coin I've noticed in N scale. I think it would be the same in HO because of the historic significance to them.
I bought one for my brother when he was nine-ten and built him a mini layout for his birthday. He still has it and kinda cherishes the thing.
TF
I have a Mantua General. Smallest engine in the smallest tender. Unlike the prototype it is hard to control under 300mph.
I'm more than a little confused here. For starters, it is not the Jupiter. Mine is lettered for the UP and is number 119. I must have conflated the Jupiter name from the CP loco. There is definitely a motor in the tender and it protrudes from the bottom but the wheels on the tender are free rolling so they are not being driven by the motor. I couldn't figure out what was driving the loco because it looked like the only connection with the tender was an unpowered drawbar. The loco wheels are not free rolling. Then I notice it appears there is some type of drive shaft that is supposed to connect the tender motor to the loco. That appears to be missing. Apparently that is supposed to turn the driver wheels on the loco. That would explain why I'm feeling vibration in the tender but not getting any movement. The chances of finding that part after 40+ years are slim and none. I have other broken down locos with drive shafts but I don't know if they could be modified to fit this one. I don't know if it would be even feasible to try to fabricate a drive shaft. The best bet might be to contact Bachmann and see if I can get a replacement part. If they are still making the same loco, that might be an option. If not, I have a non-working museum piece.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
John-NYBW I'm more than a little confused here. For starters, it is not the Jupiter. Mine is lettered for the UP and is number 119. I must have conflated the Jupiter name from the CP loco. There is definitely a motor in the tender and it protrudes from the bottom but the wheels on the tender are free rolling so they are not being driven by the motor. I couldn't figure out what was driving the loco because it looked like the only connection with the tender was an unpowered drawbar. The loco wheels are not free rolling. Then I notice it appears there is some type of drive shaft that is supposed to connect the tender motor to the loco. That appears to be missing. Apparently that is supposed to turn the driver wheels on the loco. That would explain why I'm feeling vibration in the tender but not getting any movement. The chances of finding that part after 40+ years are slim and none. I have other broken down locos with drive shafts but I don't know if they could be modified to fit this one. I don't know if it would be even feasible to try to fabricate a drive shaft. The best bet might be to contact Bachmann and see if I can get a replacement part. If they are still making the same loco, that might be an option. If not, I have a non-working museum piece.
John-NYBW I'm more than a little confused here... If not, I have a non-working museum piece.
I'm more than a little confused here... If not, I have a non-working museum piece.
You might anyway. They are not known for their great running quality. Darth Santa Fe and others have whipped them into shape, but it takes some doing. If you're not worried about nice slow speed or smooth operation, they'll get down the track. It doesn't help that about half of their current pick-up capabilities is devoted to the headlight. Dan
Southgate 2 You might anyway. They are not known for their great running quality. Darth Santa Fe and others have whipped them into shape, but it takes some doing. If you're not worried about nice slow speed or smooth operation, they'll get down the track. It doesn't help that about half of their current pick-up capabilities is devoted to the headlight. Dan
The headlight was the first thing I noticed when I put it on the track. It was really bright. It gave me hope that the loco might still work. If I had to guess, it's been at least 35 years since this loco ran under power. At one time I had a set of three bright yellow open platform coaches that went with it but I have no idea what became of them. I'm not looking to get any use out of it myself but maybe it might fetch a decent price on ebay if I could get it working.
Hi!
My first major train sale on Ebay was for a number of Rivarossi steamers. I was very impressed with the results, as in all cases I got what I paid for them or more. But the remarkable thing was most all were sold overseas (Italy, Germany, France).
Back then it was difficult (red tape) to send Ebay stuff out of the country, but now Ebay has a central forwarding section in Tennessee that handles all that.
I'd suggest you give them all a little "lube and tune" and hopefully you have the original boxes - and with that you have the makings of some worthwhile Ebay listings.........
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44 Hi! My first major train sale on Ebay was for a number of Rivarossi steamers. I was very impressed with the results, as in all cases I got what I paid for them or more. But the remarkable thing was most all were sold overseas (Italy, Germany, France). Back then it was difficult (red tape) to send Ebay stuff out of the country, but now Ebay has a central forwarding section in Tennessee that handles all that. I'd suggest you give them all a little "lube and tune" and hopefully you have the original boxes - and with that you have the makings of some worthwhile Ebay listings.........
The original boxes are long gone. I never expected I'd ever be selling any of these when I bought them, so I never made a habit of saving them. More recently I have saved the boxes from my high end locos but that's mainly out of concern for their estate value. I don't expect to sell them in my lifetime.
In addition to the UP steamers, I have a Blue Goose. Most of these are 1980s era Rivarossi steamers with the pizza cutter flanges. I can run them on my current code 83 track just to get them running but it's a rough ride. These were fetching in the $150-200 range last time I looked. I also have The Cardinals Train set and that is in it's original box. There is a current listing for that on ebay with an asking price north of $900. Based on what I've seen those go for in past sales, $300-400 seems more realistic.
Good morning John
I have three 1970's Bachmann Spirit of 76 U36B's.
One is new old stock and the other two are supposably lightly used. The new one ran okay considering how old it is. One of the used ones ran glitchy. The other used one sounded like something was rattling while spinning faster than it was going, and you had to push it every inch or two.
I took that one completely apart and found a stripped worm drive on that side. I took the worm gear part out of the old one my grandfather gave me when I was 11 and replaced it. I cleaned all the parts while I had it apart and lubed them up before I put it back together.
Now that worst running one runs better than the new old stock one and much to my surprise it was easier to fix than I thought it would be. I plan to do the other two when I feel like doing something tedious again.
I think you said something about a missing drive shaft. I found this site that sells hard to find old locomotive parts. A model railroad junkyard so to speak. I can't find it again right now but I will look later on when I take a break.
Shafts for these engines pop up on Ebay from time to time. I changed the motor on mine and it runs well.
Simon
John-NYBWThere is definitely a motor in the tender and it protrudes from the bottom but the wheels on the tender are free rolling so they are not being driven by the motor.
Tender-drives are common on British models, because UK steam engines normally didn't use trucks on the tender, they used three axles spread out under the tender. That made it easy for manufacturers to power the tender wheels directly and just let the engine roll freely. If a US model engine needed a tender motor, they had to connect the motor to the engine itself. In the US, there weren't that many engines that were so tiny they needed that; and now there are good can motors small enough to fit into small steam engines.
I don't know for sure, but I'd guess since these engines like yours were around for so long that at some point someone made a re-motoring kit that might include a new driveshaft.
Some of the 'Civil War' and 19th-Century modeling communities discuss using thin wire or stiff monofilament to make 'invisible' driveshafts for these engines; if you 'populate' the cab the shafts are particularly unobtrusive.
This should fit:
https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_87&products_id=195
What I still can't figure out is the driver wheels. They aren't free rolling. There is a small slot underneath the cab and I can see a gear. Apparently the missing driver shaft turns some sort of gear assembly inside the cab which powers the driver wheels. I am unable to turn the drivers at all with my thumb which leads me to believe there might be another motor inside the loco or some sort of electronic breaking mechanism that gets released when power is supplied to allow those drivers to turn. Just guessing. I don't want to start taking the loco apart until I find out if I can find or make a replacement for the drive shaft.
It looks like Simon found one for you John
Track fiddler It looks like Simon found one for you John TF
I checked it out and it looks like the part I need but something just rubs me the wrong way about paying $7.61 shipping for a $1.19 part. I have a Bachmann 4-8-2 that needs the rods replaced and I'm going to look to see if they have that available. If I can bundle several items together, the shipping cost might not be so outrageous. The only reason I'm bothering with this old loco is I might be able to sell if on ebay at a price that makes it a worthwhile effort. Right now on ebay a poor running Jupiter has been bid to $15.50 with 1 day remaining while a NIB Jupiter has been bid to $48.00. If I could get mine running well, it would probably fetch somewhere between that but probably closer to the lower price. After paying the ebay commission plus the cost of getting the replacement part, I'm not sure the profit would be worth the time and effort.
Another thought I just had would be to buy that cheap Jupiter and build a shadow box diorama of the Golden Spike ceremony. I've got so many things on my to-do list I don't know when I would ever get around to that.
Suspect it is a worm gearbox with gears to carry the tender-to-engine shaft axis up to 'worm level'
From the HOSeeker.net website:
That's a helpful diagram. It lets me see inside the loco without having to actually open it up. The chassis assembly is still a bit of a mystery. It seems odd to me that the little motor in the tender is strong enough to turn the driver wheels when I can't do it with my thumb. It feels like the drivers are locked up when I push on them.
There is currently a video on the trains.com website where Eric White troubleshoots a small brass loco with a similar malady, motor won't turn drivers.
Turns out that the valve gear had a frozen connection. He applied some light oil and presto/changeo problem solved. He did have to do some disassembly to get to the problem spot.
I guess the moral to that story is that one can't get there from here just by looking at it.
John-NYBW It feels like the drivers are locked up when I push on them.
If there's a worm gear engaged with the driver gear it would stand to reason you wouldn't be able to turn the drivers — unless I'm mistaken.
Can you find a wood skewer or piece of plastic sprue and file a profile on it that matches the "socket" on the end of the worm gear shaft? Then you could at least spin the worm gear and check for any binding in the drive train/side rods.
If you found a piece of fairly "true" styrene (evergreen, maybe) you could probably fabricate a drive shaft (dog-bone) that would get you by for a while.
A-line makes a "universal" drive package as does NWSL where you can make your own length of "horned balls" which is what they call the ball-end with the two protrusions.
Gool Luck, Ed
In Ed's reply above, first sentance, he's not mistaken.
The end of the shaft that goes in the worm gear is shaped like a plus sign: + , not a ball with a couple nubs on it, nor a hex.
One thing inherant to the design of this model is that the thrust forward on the worm when in reverse is on a very small surface, at the center of the worm. Thats good. But when going forward, the thrust is spread out around the outer perimiter of the back of the worm, (see the diagram) and a much larger surface. So, it will always run more freely, thus better in reverse than forward. Dan