I have lots of more recent Bachmann, last 20 years, but not many of their diesels, mostly Spectrum steam. Fewer problems as a percentage then I have had with Broadway, better service, and a selection of prototypes more in line with my interests.
I'm buying a Whirlpool frig, which I have always had good luck with, just bought a GE range, also always a good experiance over the years. And I have bought lots of appliances being a landlord for 26 years...
Was once a Checker and Chevy guy, but for the last 26 years the FORDS have been great as well.
Take care,
Sheldon
Mark,
About Bachmann and the Spectrum/Standard Line thing. The Consolidation did not change at all, the box just got simpler.
The 10 wheeler did loose some of the separately applied detail, but the drive is the same.
Other new additions to the regular line are actually very similar in detail level with those older Spectrum models, the 2-8-2, 2-8-4, 4-6-2, 2-6-0 are all very nice with nice drives and even some proto specific details. More than you can say about the expensive 2-8-2, 2-8-0 and 4-6-2 from Broadway which are all generic with the same details.
LastspikemikeMy Mantua 2-6-6-2 is the only locomotive I have which will stall across the Atlas curved turnout. I imagine it wouldn't make it over a #8 either. Those are large frogs. Mine has left driver pickup on one driver set and right driver pickup on the other set. Not ideal and not current practice where all drivers and all tender wheels commonly pick up power.
@Mike, that's interesting and explains a lot. I haven't wired my curved frogs yet. If you have wired yours, does your 2-6-6-2 do better on them?
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Finally getting back to building the #56 Dayton and Northern. Will be powered DCC. All switches are Atlas code 100 Customline Mark V numbers #393 and #394. There are 3 loops of 28 inches, 30 inches, and 32 inches. Each loop will be a separate power district. ( Please refer to above mentioned plan.) There are 4 places where I will have crossovers. Questions are: 1. Will all 6 rail ends on each switch need the plastic insulated rail joiners? 2. Where do I attach feeders from buss wires to switch rails?
First of all, you don't need any insulated rail joiners with Atlas turnouts unless you are going to have separate power districts.
If you do want separate power districts, make each loop a district and the only insulated joints will be in the middle of each crossover.
In either case, on a layout that small If you just run a one feeder to each loop, or maybe two or three to each loop for overkill, you will be fine.
If you layout is in a stable environment, I would solder all the rail joints except possibly those the turnouts.
Those concentric curves at those radiuses may be problematic for looger equipment passing each other. I have found you need to get up 36" radius or above before concentric curves at 2" centers work for all equipment.
There is no need to connect feeders directly to the turnouts except for the frog power connection.
Thanks, Sheldon.
I would add feeders to all three ends of every turnout.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain I would add feeders to all three ends of every turnout. Rich
Why?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain I would add feeders to all three ends of every turnout. Rich Why?
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain I would add feeders to all three ends of every turnout. Rich Why? I want every piece of track powered. Rich
I want every piece of track powered.
In 56 years at this hobby, I have never had all these issues with track/power that others either seem to have or are afraid are going to happen.
I have had friends with typical DC layouts with multiple blocks who converted to DCC. Each block might be typically 12' to 20' long. All they did to convert to DCC was tie all those feeders together and hook them to the command station. Worked fine.
Some of them left their DC control panels in place, set all the blocks to one throttle, and hooked the command station to that throttle input where a power pack had been. Worked fine.
No buss wire, no drops every 6', none of that.
In the beginning we were told "DCC only takes two wires" - When you tell an electrician something only takes two wires, he reads that as 4 connections - PERIOD.
DISCLAIMER - most of these DC old timers had all the rail joints in each block soldered.
And a few did put some of those "circuit breakers" on each old block or joined the blocks into several groups and installed separate boosters/circuit breakers.
On one layout I designed for a friend and helped build with DCC, the owner installed drops every 6', including on two large helix lifts from the staging to the visable mainline. The taller helix alone was 150' of track. He never finished hooking them all up, I never once remember having a problem on his layout.
Do whatever makes you comfortable, but it all seems like overkill to me.
I know it is DC, but my new layout has block lengths from 20' to 60' - there will only be one feeder to each block. It will work fine.
Just to be clear, feel free to over build, I do it in other areas of this hobby.
One of the things I like about Atlas turnouts is the simple built in feed thru wiring which I have never had any issues with.
I found it interesting that the new PECO was designed to provide that feature as well.
After years of building my own turnouts and dealing with the issues of power routing turnouts I was happy when the Atlas code 83 line came out and provided suitable appearance and function without the issues (extra gaps, etc) of power routing.
I am on my 5th DCC-powered layout. The current one is a 42' x 25' double mainline layout with two yards and two large passenger stations. Lots of turnouts. I learned the hard way on my early layouts with loose rail joiners, insufficient feeders, etc. On my current layout, there are no stalls due to power loss because every piece of track, including turnouts, have feeders soldered to the outside of every rail.
richhotrain I am on my 5th DCC-powered layout. The current one is a 42' x 25' double mainline layout with two yards and two large passenger stations. Lots of turnouts. I learned the hard way on my early layouts with loose rail joiners, insufficient feeders, etc. On my current layout, there are no stalls due to power loss because every piece of track, including turnouts, have feeders soldered to the outside of every rail. Rich
OK, I get that. But that is a lot of work, much easier, and just as reliable, to solder the rail joints.
And for those worried about expansion and contraction, ok, every so often solder a jumper around the rail joint.
For me, all that wiring would be problematic. The feed to each mailine block must run thru the coil of an inductive detector. So multiple drops within a given block would have to be wired after the detector. This becomes a logistical nightmare under the layout.
I look at all this buss wiring people do and think "that is just as much wire as my DC control system - just hooked up differently".
When I was a child, and my father set up the 5' x 18' Christmas layout every year, he actually soldered all the rail joints and all the wiring, just for that two month display.
Then he unsoldered the track for disassembly - it was TruScale wood roadbed track.
Each loop of track, roughly 40', simply had one feeder. Except for some sidings that were wired to be shut off to store/stage trains.
Yes, we had a 90 sq ft model train layout in the living room about 15% of the year, until I was 10. Then it got put up in the basement and stayed up year round. In a few years I was given full creative control/ownership.
So I would much rather solder rail joiners than have all that wire to deal with.
Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering.
richhotrain Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering. Rich
How do you join all those wires together?
DCC requires constant 14V power (minimum). I've read that this is better achieved with a bus and multiple feeders because track does not carry power as well as wires. I also solder most of my track, with some space for expansion.
Simon
snjroy DCC requires constant 14V power (minimum). I've read that this is better achieved with a bus and multiple feeders because track does not carry power as well as wires. I also solder most of my track, with some space for expansion. Simon
I have read all that too. But as described above, my real world experiance with 4-5 layouts belonging to friends says otherwise.
My DC layouts have used full voltage pulse width modulated speed control at 13.8 volts for years with single feeders to blocks as long as 60' with no issues.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering. Rich How do you join all those wires together? Sheldon
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering. Rich How do you join all those wires together? Sheldon I don't. I connect each feeder to the bus which essentially follows the track underneath the layout. Rich
I don't. I connect each feeder to the bus which essentially follows the track underneath the layout.
Ok, but how do you attach your drops to the buss?
I don't have any use for a buss, I have blocks. Remember, signals require blocks, DC or DCC.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering. Rich How do you join all those wires together? Sheldon I don't. I connect each feeder to the bus which essentially follows the track underneath the layout. Rich Ok, but how do you attach your drops to the buss? I don't have any use for a buss, I have blocks. Remember, signals require blocks, DC or DCC. Sheldon
I use 14 gauge solid copper wire for the bus and 20 gauge stranded copper wire for the feeders. Soldering feeders to solid wire is not as easy as soldering feeders to stranded bus wire. So, I have a tool that separates the plastic insulated jacket from the solid wire by about 3/4", enough space to wrap the stranded feeder wire tightly around the solid bus wire. No soldering required. Believe it or not, I have not ever had a single connection fail.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering. Rich How do you join all those wires together? Sheldon I don't. I connect each feeder to the bus which essentially follows the track underneath the layout. Rich Ok, but how do you attach your drops to the buss? I don't have any use for a buss, I have blocks. Remember, signals require blocks, DC or DCC. Sheldon Reactions may vary, but here goes. I use 14 gauge solid copper wire for the bus and 20 gauge stranded copper wire for the feeders. Soldering feeders to solid wire is not as easy as soldering feeders to stranded bus wire. So, I have a tool that separates the plastic insulated jacket from the solid wire by about 3/4", enough space to wrap the stranded feeder wire tightly around the solid bus wire. No soldering required. Believe it or not, I have not ever had a single connection fail. Rich
Reactions may vary, but here goes.
OK, that is better than using a Scotchloc like some guys do. All the wires in your house are just twisted together (if it was done right). Contrary to novice practice, wire nuts do not make the connection, they are just a fast way to insulate the connection and offer some additional mechanical security.
So I hope you can see that since I have no need for a whole layout buss, soldering the rail joints makes more sense.
85% of my wiring is built on the work bench and installed as modules spread around the layout, generally near each tower panel.
All the various control inputs, switch machine wiring, etc, is done with cat5 cable so the cables are easily tagged with their purpose.
The actual track power from the wireless receivers to the cab selector relay boards are #12. The short run from there to the track is #18 solid.
ATLANTIC CENTRALOK, that is better than using a Scotchloc like some guys do. All the wires in your house are just twisted together (if it was done right). Contrary to novice practice, wire nuts do not make the connection, they are just a fast way to insulate the connection and offer some additional mechanical security. So I hope you can see that since I have no need for a whole layout buss, soldering the rail joints makes more sense. 85% of my wiring is built on the work bench and installed as modules spread around the layout, generally near each tower panel. All the various control inputs, switch machine wiring, etc, is done with cat5 cable so the cables are easily tagged with their purpose. The actual track power from the wireless receivers to the cab selector relay boards are #12. The short run from there to the track is #18 solid. Sheldon
Rich.
I get it. If that works stay with it.
On a layout the size of mine that would be around 1000 feeder drops........ or more......
But I would bet if the OP does anything close to what said, his layout will run just fine.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL snjroy DCC requires constant 14V power (minimum). I've read that this is better achieved with a bus and multiple feeders because track does not carry power as well as wires. I also solder most of my track, with some space for expansion. Simon I have read all that too. But as described above, my real world experiance with 4-5 layouts belonging to friends says otherwise. My DC layouts have used full voltage pulse width modulated speed control at 13.8 volts for years with single feeders to blocks as long as 60' with no issues. Sheldon
No disagreement there.
In the examples I gave earlier in this thread, existing DC layouts were successfully converted to DCC without dismantling the original block wiring. But rather by simply replacing the DC throttle/power pack with the DCC command station.
So each section of track that was previously a DC block, now had a feed pretty much directly from the command station. Typical block lengths from 15' to as much as 40'.
But wire sizes were not increased, block controls were left in place and all set to the same throttle. No issues were observed over multiple years of DCC operation.
This suggests that soldered sections of track in this length range will work reliably with a single feeder as opposed to the every 6' mentality.
I have built DC layouts that filled 1000 sq ft rooms and wired them with a decentralized "hub and spoke" scheme that does NOT use toggle switches as the cab selector and my voltage readings are consistent everywhere on the layout.
And my throttles use full voltage pulse with speed control, so in some form there is 13.8 volts on the track any time a train is moving.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Rich. I get it. If that works stay with it. On a layout the size of mine that would be around 1000 feeder drops........ or more...... But I would bet if the OP does anything close to what said, his layout will run just fine. Sheldon
I will agree that if you use a hub and spoke wiring method and limit the runs to 40' that you may get away with fewer feeders assuming that you solder all of the track sections together, but that is a lot of soldering.
I've seen layouts where the block feeders went to terminal strips, which then connected to the DCC buss through the detector. Simple, neat, and the terminal strips were labelled to match the blocks.
Multi-cab DC layouts have multiple power busses instead of the one in DCC; one from each throttle to each control panel*, and one from each control panel to each block controlled by the panel.
* The words "control panel" can be replaced by "relay logic" or anything similar, the concept is the same.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL just bought a GE range, also always a good experiance over the years
Unfortunately not really GE anymore.
maxman ATLANTIC CENTRAL just bought a GE range, also always a good experiance over the years Unfortunately not really GE anymore.
True, not owned by GE but actually an independent subsidiary Haier who also makes Cafe', Monogram and HotPoint.
That's how manufacturing works. Brand names are bought and sold, work is subed out to factories that have the right equipment.
Ariens, the snow blower people, who also own GRAVELY, make snowblowers for John Deere right next to the red and orange ones for their own brands.
GRAVELY sold riding tractors for 35 years that all used the same design snowplow - the GRAVELY factory never made a snow plow, they were built to GRAVELY specs by Agri-Fab.
Sears NEVER owned a factory to make anything in their whole existance - look at all the stuff that says SEARS, or CRAFTSMAN, or KENMORE. It all came from factories that also made other brands of the same types of items
Several of the "major" tool brands have always been involved in making CRAFTSMAN TOOLS.
MATCO TOOLS is the ONLY nationally recognized brand that actually owns a factory to make large tool boxes. Even Snap-On subs that out.
A very signifcant percentage of the screwdrivers you buy from any USA brand come from Vermont American.
Shall I go on?