I've observed the general public seems to interpret the construction of a model layout as art. Maybe not so much the final product as more a representation. Reminds me when I did 3D renderings for a major architecture firm. We spend tens of thousands of dollars to make beautiful realistic represenactions. While the process seemed art-like in post production, I guess it felt more technical.
Mr Ronyou will see people walk by and not batt an eye as if it didn't exist. That disturbs me
Why would you be disturbed by someone trying to catch their connecting flight and not stopping to listen?
I worked at Vancouver airport for decades and I am sure the taxpayers that pay my wages would frown on me stopping to take in a concert.
You don't know the story of the people walking by the musician and not stopping. I am curious as to why this bothers you.
I have sung and played in front of over 300 people before and my sister keeps harping on me to get out and play for people. I have absolutely no interest in doing that at all, I only play for my own enjoyment. The only way I can shut her up is to tell her that I'll play publicly if she takes up MRRing and builds a model RR in her large rec room. When she says she has no interest in doing that, I say exactly!
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Mr Ron I tend to be over critical and I apoligize for that. I have to realize that all people have their own interests and just because their interests don't jive with mine is no reason to put anyone down. For exampe, I watch videos on you tube that show musicians making great music in an airport. Some people stop to listen and most are enjoying it, but you will see people walk by and not batt an eye as if it didn't exist. That disturbs me and I think it's just my sensitivity that makes me think the way I do. I know all people are different and won't embrace things the same way as I do, but it never-the-less disturbs me. Is there any hope for me?
I tend to be over critical and I apoligize for that. I have to realize that all people have their own interests and just because their interests don't jive with mine is no reason to put anyone down. For exampe, I watch videos on you tube that show musicians making great music in an airport. Some people stop to listen and most are enjoying it, but you will see people walk by and not batt an eye as if it didn't exist. That disturbs me and I think it's just my sensitivity that makes me think the way I do. I know all people are different and won't embrace things the same way as I do, but it never-the-less disturbs me. Is there any hope for me?
"Great music" is a pretty subjective topic. Great as in the Beatles, the Beach Boys, the Eagles, Linda Ronstadt, Billy Joel, Bob Dylan, John Prine, Jerry Jeff Walker, Hank Williams Jr, Kris Kristofferson, Adele, Carole King, James Taylor, Johnny Cash, Townes Van Zandt, Steve Earle, Alice Cooper, Queen, etc, etc?
My list is pretty long, 1700 pieces of vinyl and 700 compact discs. But there is a lot out there that does not even prompt me to listen all the way thru.....
Your mileage may vary.
Sheldon
BTW, for those of you who are interested or close by, the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento has one of the best model railroading-as-art displays I have ever seen. They have Malcolm Furlow's restored San Juan Central on display, as well as a very nice segment of Irv Schultz's St Clair Northern. They have an enormous amount of model equipment, including a whole string of Schultz's turn of the century billboard reefers and some restored engines and cars salvaged from the Gorre and Daphetid. The whole display is a sort of tribute to the modeling of the 1960-1990 period, and if you like the styles that were prevalent at the time, it's more than worth the visit.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Lastspikemike SeeYou190 Lastspikemike My rule of thumb for modelling is if it looks right it is right. Yet we have never seen a picture. -Kevin And you never will until this website is brought up to date. Which is as likely as modernization of DCC. Our host is providing a free service. I suppose you expect them to store your photo data like Facebook? I don't blame them for not spending that money on this. Contrary to popular opinion, the interweb is not free. I know, I helped build it in the early days. Whatever. Sheldon
Lastspikemike SeeYou190 Lastspikemike My rule of thumb for modelling is if it looks right it is right. Yet we have never seen a picture. -Kevin And you never will until this website is brought up to date. Which is as likely as modernization of DCC.
SeeYou190 Lastspikemike My rule of thumb for modelling is if it looks right it is right. Yet we have never seen a picture. -Kevin
Lastspikemike My rule of thumb for modelling is if it looks right it is right.
Yet we have never seen a picture.
-Kevin
And you never will until this website is brought up to date. Which is as likely as modernization of DCC.
Our host is providing a free service. I suppose you expect them to store your photo data like Facebook? I don't blame them for not spending that money on this. Contrary to popular opinion, the interweb is not free. I know, I helped build it in the early days. Whatever.
Pauley "...art is produced to be consumed." I have to respectfully disagree with that. True, some art may wind up being "shared." But in my experience, I don't think that's the main motivation for most artists to create.
"...art is produced to be consumed."
I have to respectfully disagree with that.
True, some art may wind up being "shared." But in my experience, I don't think that's the main motivation for most artists to create.
PauleyVery nice!
Thank you.
That picture shows my favorite locomotive, my Athearn Trainmaster. It is pulling a string of custom painted Kadee PS-1 boxcars decorated for my private custom roadname.
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 Posting pictures is easy. -Kevin
Posting pictures is easy.
Very nice!
www.bostontype.com
LastspikemikeAnd you never will until this website is brought up to date.
LastspikemikeMy rule of thumb for modelling is if it looks right it is right.
MidlandPacific All kidding aside, there's an interesting and legitimate question for modelers: are you trying to build as perfect a model of reality as possible, given the unavoidable limitations of size and scale, or are you trying to create an effect? Everyone does both, but the question of which you want more - fidelity or effect - is what I think a lot of people have in mind when they talk about modeling as art. The idea of "creating an effect" often involves things like (for example) making bridge timbers at smaller than scale size to make the structure fit the viewer's idea of what a spindly mountain bridge looks like. To a lot of people, the effect is the goal, and the artistry comes in the impact on the viewer. To others, the effect comes from fidelity to the prototype. I think the hobby needs a good mix of both.
All kidding aside, there's an interesting and legitimate question for modelers: are you trying to build as perfect a model of reality as possible, given the unavoidable limitations of size and scale, or are you trying to create an effect? Everyone does both, but the question of which you want more - fidelity or effect - is what I think a lot of people have in mind when they talk about modeling as art.
The idea of "creating an effect" often involves things like (for example) making bridge timbers at smaller than scale size to make the structure fit the viewer's idea of what a spindly mountain bridge looks like. To a lot of people, the effect is the goal, and the artistry comes in the impact on the viewer. To others, the effect comes from fidelity to the prototype. I think the hobby needs a good mix of both.
Well, I agree - I'm an "effect" kind of guy, big picture modeling.
Example - passenger cars - I run mostly selectively compressed generic cars like Athearn and ConCor - with some extra details added......
But the most important detail is this:
Working, touching diaphragms and close coupling, so my little 1/87 people can get from car to car safely.
AND, so the passenger train looks, well, like a passenger train and not some LIONEL toy train going around O-42 curves with 6 scale feet between cars.
I don't care how "accruate" each car is, the gaps between them spoils the effect for me.
If that makes me an artist, ok.
I like accurate models, but the big picture effect is the most important goal.
That's why the new layout will have large curves, deep scenery, one scenic level, and be relatively simple for its large size.
Art - again is like "enlightenment". Just remember, "Classical Music" was just the pop music of its day.......
I think it's important to undersand that whether or not something is "art" has nothing to do with whether it's important. Model railroading wouldn't be more important if it was an art, or any less important if it's not. The question is, should it be considered an art? I'd say no. It's not a fine art that creates something lasting and tangible, like a painting or a sculpture, and it's not a performance art like dance or music. Museums don't have displays of mid-twentieth century model locomotives; art dealers don't sell model trains. That doesn't mean some modellers haven't done wonderful things, it just means they're not artists.
A while back, I was cleaning up the studio when I found a small piece of styrene on which I had tested some paint. It looked like a piece of modern art that would hang in an art museum.
So I made a small building out of foam core board, stuck the piece on the wall, and put a guy drinking coffee on a bench contemplating that age-old question.
I call it the "What is Art Gallery."
Hi Everyone,
To art or not to art, does it really matter? Model railroading is, as has been stated before, a hobby above all else. It can be artistic. In some cases it can be very artistic, but it's still a hobby, at least for most of us. And that's as it should be, I think. A little recognition from our peers for a well done project is nice, but does anyone really want wider recognition? I seriously doubt it.
Jim (with a nod to Mies Van Der Rohe)
SpaceMouse SeeYou190 I still think Malcom Furlow was the best photographer for layout features. He was hated by some, yes.
SeeYou190 I still think Malcom Furlow was the best photographer for layout features.
He was hated by some, yes.
Sam Posey's book on model trains captured the essence of the problem: some people are interested in one aspect of the hobby, while others prefer another. I tend to agree with Chip on this- the book that Furlow did with John Olson, Dave Frary, and Paul Scoles on model railroad photography was illustrative of what the "artistic" school was trying to accomplish in those days. It was devoted to film photography, so it's of limited technical interest these days, but the pictures and the modeling were very much to my taste.
Overmod I don't see that anyone has advised you how to fix typos or edit your posts, and I still can't PM you from a phone. You have to 'clear' initial mandatory moderation by making a certain number of positive posts... this may already have happened. A moderator will go into the forum computer program and change your 'posting status' -- the signs this has happened are that your posts will start appearing nearly immediately rather than being delayed, and a little 'edit' button will appear in each post you've authored. When you see the latter appear... go back to the deflicted post and you'll be able to change it. The right URL is in your sig anyway, so I doubt anyone here will get confused or delayed by that typo...
I don't see that anyone has advised you how to fix typos or edit your posts, and I still can't PM you from a phone.
You have to 'clear' initial mandatory moderation by making a certain number of positive posts... this may already have happened. A moderator will go into the forum computer program and change your 'posting status' -- the signs this has happened are that your posts will start appearing nearly immediately rather than being delayed, and a little 'edit' button will appear in each post you've authored. When you see the latter appear... go back to the deflicted post and you'll be able to change it.
The right URL is in your sig anyway, so I doubt anyone here will get confused or delayed by that typo...
Overmod - thanks for all the info.
I added the URL to the sig after being unable to edit. (Knowing how I type, I'm looking forward to that ability. ...;))
EDIT: And just like that, I have it. :)
SeeYou190I still think Malcom Furlow was the best photographer for layout features.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
rrebellWhy would it have been locked, we are on topic for the most part.
People didn't filter their egos much back then. "Model Railroading as Art" topics were closed as quickly as they were opened so they wouldn't devolve.
My wife is a working artist by the way.
Overmod, she is an abstract artist.
PauleyMore about my work here: www.botontype.com
In the old days, it would have drifted off topic and turned into a rant-fest.
When I first joined this forum I made a comment about how I thought some of the best layout tours featured in Model Railroader were the ones where Malcom Furlow did the photography.
What a bunch of hate-filled responses that generated. None of them were about his talents as a photographer.
I still think Malcom Furlow was the best photographer for layout features.
PM me or email me. I will fill you in.
Let's keep this one on topic.
Why would it have been locked, we are on topic for the most part. I was in the arts, taught by practicing artists (meaning this is how they make their living) and some were friends of mine. I have even looked at some of the balance sheets, finantialy speaking.
SpaceMouse This topic, in the good old days, would have been locked.
This topic, in the good old days, would have been locked.
Oh, boy, would it ever have been! I can still remember some of those threads - all you had to do was say something nice about Malcolm Furlow or John Allen, wait until it was 3am in Australia, and the forum would really start to crackle.
Glad you're still here, Chip.
rrebell Like I said before, art is the art of promotion, by someone and not neccisarily the artist.
Like I said before, art is the art of promotion, by someone and not neccisarily the artist.
That's it - art is produced to be consumed. Most of us MRRs (even a John Allen or George Selios) do it mostly for ourselves, or perhaps for comraderie, and "consumption" during open houses, or even via pictures in the pages of the model railroad press or on this site, is incidental. I suppose some of the museum model railroad displays qualify as "art" under this definition. Of course many artists are driven to produce art for art's sake, but on the other hand most of them have to be dead before they gain any noteriety or the art is worth anything.
SpaceMouse
THAT'S where I got it wrong. I splattered oil OVER the bird poop.
No wonder no one wants to buy it and hang it on the wall.
Ed
Overmod SpaceMouse But no one would call that art.
SpaceMouse But no one would call that art.