My own experience with the tuner tells me that if you maintain constant pressure on the sides of the truck, it will stop cutting once it reaches the ideal contour. I've never tried it but my guess is if you squeeze it tighter, it might shave more plastic but I've never had a reason to try that. I apply firm pressure on the sides but I don't white knuckle it.
To answer the question on the Truck Tuner - It stops cutting once the correct contour is present. Spin it all you want, once it's the correct contour it will no longer cut.
The only way that it continues to cut is if you forcably squeeze the truck sides in onto the tools cutting edge.
Based only on my experiences using said tool, as usual YMMV.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I have cars that go all the way back to the Sixties (mainly AHM, a few Athearn) so I just got a Truck Tuner to ream/cut/bore my trucks into proper contour before installing metal wheel sets. What gets my goat (Bahhhh!) is that I'm paying $17 or so for four sets to equip two cars that probably cost around $1.95 back in the day. 1) Yes, I know all about inflation 2) No, I want to upgrade them. They are the survivors of a culling process of what I had back then, so they mean something to me. It just struck me as something humorous and worth a wry chuckle. How our expectations have gone up. I'm sure there are other others out there in the same boat who will grin at what I am saying...(and there's the price of Kadees, too)
Lastspikemike To complete the thought does the truck tuner continue to produce plastic shavings if you continue to turn the cutter or does it seem to stop producing shavings at some point?
To complete the thought does the truck tuner continue to produce plastic shavings if you continue to turn the cutter or does it seem to stop producing shavings at some point?
LastspikemikePut another way, does the process of tuning using this cutting tool seem to face a natural completion point or do you have to be careful not to conduct the operation for too long or the tool just keeps on cutting?
LastspikemikeThe photos of the tool seem to show a fixed length shaft which replaces the axle set so logically it cannot cut deeper than that fixed length unless you deliberately press the cutter end into the bearing cone. I guess I had assumed it was somehow spring loaded but either way the tool has a designed in length limit which would ensure it only cuts to the correct finished axle length.
LastspikemikeAnd that makes me wonder if one should buy the truck pliers at the same time. Getting axles in and out of plastic trucks can be tricky at the best of times. Makes me wonder how easily the tuning tool is to insert and remove without marking up the inside of the truck.
Alton Junction
Lastspikemike As I predicted, we get a treatise on what is or is not reaming and what is or is not a reamer. Here's a reasonably priced specialty conical reamer: https://www.radiushdd.com/12-fluted-reamer-conical-2-3-8-reg-box-x-30k-swivel The micro Mark tool will only cut into the "bearing" if the cone is not 60 degrees or has some sort of burr or irregularity. When it does cut the operation is indistinguishable from reaming. To ream may include altering a conical shaped recess. The process of reaming is not limited to enlarging a bore or cylindrical hole. Any time you ream something you are using a reamer. My point was to reassure those uncertain as to how the micro mark tool works that the tool is pretty much foolproof. You'd have you really work at enlarging an already perfectly smooth 60 degree cone shaped recess in a plastic truck. If the recess isn't already smooth and at 60 degrees then that's why you're using the tool. Reamers are equally foolproof because of their design. In fact that's why they are designed to be that way and to do that job.
As I predicted, we get a treatise on what is or is not reaming and what is or is not a reamer.
Here's a reasonably priced specialty conical reamer:
https://www.radiushdd.com/12-fluted-reamer-conical-2-3-8-reg-box-x-30k-swivel
The micro Mark tool will only cut into the "bearing" if the cone is not 60 degrees or has some sort of burr or irregularity. When it does cut the operation is indistinguishable from reaming.
To ream may include altering a conical shaped recess. The process of reaming is not limited to enlarging a bore or cylindrical hole. Any time you ream something you are using a reamer.
My point was to reassure those uncertain as to how the micro mark tool works that the tool is pretty much foolproof. You'd have you really work at enlarging an already perfectly smooth 60 degree cone shaped recess in a plastic truck. If the recess isn't already smooth and at 60 degrees then that's why you're using the tool.
Reamers are equally foolproof because of their design. In fact that's why they are designed to be that way and to do that job.
Good heavens!
There was no treatise on what is or is not reaming and what is or is not a reamer.
One of us rolled their eyes, I gave my qualifications as a self-proclaimed-machinist, one of us gave the dictonary definition on what is reaming, and someone else posted an example of a reamer they were familiar with.
There was no discord.
There was no disagreement.
There were no insults.
No one said you were wrong.
The only treatise is contained in your response above.
Still, you are so determined to sow your seeds of discourse and create argument, you return with the insanity that your prediction came true. Wholly absurd.
No one took your bait this time.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
richhotrain I have my own thoughts about whether or not the Micro Mark truck tuner is a reamer, but I am not going to take sides here to continue the debate. Suffice it to say that when I have a plastic truck that seems to "drag" its wheelset(s), I use the Micro Mark truck tuner. It does produce what I refer to as plastic "shavings" from the truck, and the result is a smoother rolling truck. Rich
I have my own thoughts about whether or not the Micro Mark truck tuner is a reamer, but I am not going to take sides here to continue the debate.
Suffice it to say that when I have a plastic truck that seems to "drag" its wheelset(s), I use the Micro Mark truck tuner. It does produce what I refer to as plastic "shavings" from the truck, and the result is a smoother rolling truck.
Rich
Ditto.
And quite smooth and very free rolling at that!
I will only use the truck tuner if I feel it could be better performing after. Not every truck needs this done.
And here goes another thread.
In 3-2-1...
The Scientific Models truck tuner isn't a 'reamer' in the usual machining sense. This is what a 0-14mm reamer looks like:
Note the angle involved, and how the blades are intended to act.
The truck tool is described as a 'cutter' and I think the point to remember is that it is used the same as a reamer, with a light touch to dress the final form and surface finish of the 60-degree recess right up close to its apex. The edge here performs the same slight removal and surface-finish improvement as a reamer when 'operated' correctly; this is also why the opposite locating rnd of the tool is machined as a point and not another cutter -- it would be difficult to control the action of two edges simultaneously, particularly in relatively soft material.
As noted by at least one excellent 'article' discussion here, the 'point' of the 50-degree axle cone does not seat in the apex of the 60-degree bearing, and indeed you will note that the very tip of the truck tuner is slightly rounded (very slightly, but visibly so) so a different tool would be needed for truly-accurate point bearing finishing... incidentally that would obviate most if not all actual need to dress the face of the 60-degree-recess. Assuming anyone in model railroading would have a need for point-bearing in practice.
Rather than argue about the defintion of the verb ream, why don't we turn to the dictionary defintion:
ream
Definition of ream (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
Strictly speaking, the Micro-Mark truck tuner is not enlarging or shaping a hole although what it is doing with the bearing is very similar so it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to call it reaming.
I guess being a factory certified Field & Alternative Repair machinist for three different engine manufacters, and then being qualified to certify new machinists by one of the largest engine manufacturers in the world makes me a "Self Proclaimed Machinist!"
Rolls his eyes.
Asolutely NOT a reamer.
Nope not a reamer. I used reamers daily for 40 years. I know reamers. It is closest to a center drill that one uses on a lathe.
DoughlessBut an overall point given the type of layout, for a switching layout that has shortish trains and slow speeds, there is no reason to put a lot of effort into making cars free rolling, or see a difference in metal vs plastic performance
I agree, Douglas. Even though my layout's more than just a switching layout, there's not much in the way of high speeds, and most trains are less than 20 cars, due to the abundance of grades. If a train needs an additional locomotive, there are lots available.
Wayne
1arfarf3 I use the truck tuner from Micro Mark to clean the pockets. But don't be to aggressive. Its very sharp and you will take plastic out also thus risk enlarging the pockets.
I use the truck tuner from Micro Mark to clean the pockets. But don't be to aggressive. Its very sharp and you will take plastic out also thus risk enlarging the pockets.
I thought taking out the plastic was the idea behind the tool. According to the listing on the Micro-Mark website, the tool is intended to reshape the bearings and clean out grime. I don't know how it could reshape the bearing without removing some plastic. Whenever I use it I always take some plastic shavings out.
HO Truck Tuner (micromark.com)
Industrial spurs that transistion from roadbed to none have grades. A three car spot sometimes has the last car on a slight slope and that's enough to push the other cars off their mark if they are too free rolling.
But an overall point given the type of layout, for a switching layout that has shortish trains and slow speeds, there is no reason to put a lot of effort into making cars free rolling, or see a difference in metal vs plastic performance, IMO.
- Douglas
I've replaced all my plastic wheelsets with metal. I find I don't need as much motive power and I can run longer trains. For some older rolling stock I needed to replace the trucks, too. I have a dozen or so Tyco operating hoppers that had metal trucks which could not be taken apart, so they went into the trash.
I am pretty fussy about keeping my track level, so I don't have much trouble with rolling stock that won't stay put.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
John-NYBW Doughless The noise I hear from metal wheels is not a clicky clack, more like a steady drone like ball bearings rolling on glass. Not realistic at all. I prefer the silence of plastic. Maybe it is due to my mild hearing loss but I have never noticed a clickety-clack or any other noise coming from the wheels of my rolling stock. Now that I have been made aware of it, it'll probably drive me crazy.
Doughless The noise I hear from metal wheels is not a clicky clack, more like a steady drone like ball bearings rolling on glass. Not realistic at all. I prefer the silence of plastic.
The noise I hear from metal wheels is not a clicky clack, more like a steady drone like ball bearings rolling on glass. Not realistic at all. I prefer the silence of plastic.
Yeah, its not a big deal. When I turn up the speed I can hear the metal wheels hit against the rail joints, but outside of that noise, I hear the wheels glide on the steel rails like ball bearings rolling on glass. Pleasant, but not very realistic, IMO.
I keep the speed low so noise isn't really an issue for me either.
I have both good and bad wheel sets be they metal or plastic. Not to throw anyone under the bus... Bachmann... but when I first had Annie and Clarabel running, I had to play with the wheels on both of them to get them free spinning. Likewise, some Athern plastic wheels needed some help.
As for crud, I am with Wayne. I think the dust, hair extra bit of ballast or foam can be attributed to Maintenance-Of-Way cleaning.
And who DOESN'T like clickity-clack? I think that is one of the top 5 reasons I want a layout again... the "local" club only meets on Wednesdays and, like coffee, my addiction needs feeding.
There's one other factor that has nothing to do with the wheels. I said earlier I put KD 148 couplers and metal wheels on all my rolling stock. If the trucks are plastic, I also use a reaming tool I bought from Micro-Mark that fits in the truck and ream out the pockets that the axle tips set in. This also helps improve the free rolling of the wheelsets. My layout has a 1.5% grade about 20 ft. long between two of my towns. To test the cars out, I give a gentle nudge from the top of the grade and the car should reach the depot in the next town which is on the flat. If the cars are really free rolling, they will go a yard or two past the depot but they need to at least reach the depot for me to be satisfied.
As another poster just pointed out, free rolling isn't for everybody but I prefer it for my rolling stock.
As someone who is an outlier in this forum, I run 8 car trains slowly and switch the cars, free rolling cars hinder performance.
Also, locomotive pulling power is nearly irrelevant.
As long as the cars roll, the layout works. It works best when the cars do not roll well.
I'm concerned about free stopping, not free rolling.
As far as metal or plastic, it really doesn't matter.
Most of my rolling stock is newer product that come with metal wheels. I'll probably take the trucks off and treat the axle cone tips with somehting to make the cars more free stopping and enhance their sit-tightedness when being coupled.
doctorwayne If you want the clickety-clack of wheels going over the rail joints (not all that common on the real ones nowadays), use a razor saw to make a slight cut every 39' (HO), staggered, in the top of the rails.
If you want the clickety-clack of wheels going over the rail joints (not all that common on the real ones nowadays), use a razor saw to make a slight cut every 39' (HO), staggered, in the top of the rails.
PM Railfan...What got me about this thread was Tom mentioning the 'clickety-clack'. Now that i do remember and did like. Hadnt really thought about it when thinking of changing out to metal wheels, but now im looking forward to a louder than before rolling sound...
The din of HO scale metal wheels is nowhere near similar to that of the wheels on a real train, and I'm not speaking of volume, but rather of the type of sounds generated. If you don't believe that, it's time you got out for a little railfanning.
I havent had a layout since before this era of metal wheels came about in the hobby. Most of my rolling stock is all original. I do recognize the superior performance of the metal wheel sets over plastic and am still interested in reading the posts relaying experience with said wheelsets vs plastic.
What got me about this thread was Tom mentioning the 'clickety-clack'. Now that i do remember and did like. Hadnt really thought about it when thinking of changing out to metal wheels, but now im looking forward to a louder than before rolling sound.
Put me down as a wheel changer - I will be going from plastic to metal. More for performance and look than sound. Thats the icing.
PMR
tstage JDawg Metal wheels oftentimes do perform better, but they make a lot of noise. So do the 1:1 wheels. I actually like the sound - especially the clickity-clack, as the metal wheel sets ride over the track joints. Makes it more real for me. So, yea - I switch out all my plastic wheel sets for metal ones. Tom
JDawg Metal wheels oftentimes do perform better, but they make a lot of noise.
So do the 1:1 wheels. I actually like the sound - especially the clickity-clack, as the metal wheel sets ride over the track joints. Makes it more real for me.
So, yea - I switch out all my plastic wheel sets for metal ones.
Tom
I agree that the metal wheels make a pleasing noise at low to mid speeds, but once you crank it up a bit the racket becomes unbearable for me, personally. I guess that point is when I can't hear the loco sounds anymore.
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
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Tomorrow is a Mystery.
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JDawgMetal wheels oftentimes do perform better, but they make a lot of noise.
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