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Steam engines derailing

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  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Franconia, NH
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Posted by dstarr on Sunday, October 31, 2021 2:49 PM

Add as much lead weight as will fit to the pilot truck.  More is better.  Solder is nearly as dense as lead and can be wrapped around the pilot truck axle. 

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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 12:52 PM

Overmod

 

 
I found exactly the opposite: they were never on the track... Laugh

 

 

... Which probably explains why there are so many Ebay items with missing front trucks Embarrassed

Simon

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 12:03 PM

SeeYou190
and the pilot and trailing trucks would NEVER derail.

I found exactly the opposite: they were never on the track... Laugh

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 10:26 AM

SeeYou190
 
richhotrain
Count your blessings! 

My first HO steam locomotive was a Tenshodo 0-8-0. The person that gave it to me said that the 0-8-0 wheel arrangement was the best because it had enough drivers for reliable electrical pick-up, and the pilot and trailing trucks would NEVER derail. 

LOL.  Good one, Kevin. I was tempted, before seeing your reply, to suggest an 0-x-0 switcher of some sort, but you beat me to it.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 10:23 AM

richhotrain
Count your blessings!

My first HO steam locomotive was a Tenshodo 0-8-0. The person that gave it to me said that the 0-8-0 wheel arrangement was the best because it had enough drivers for reliable electrical pick-up, and the pilot and trailing trucks would NEVER derail.

He was right!

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 10:18 AM

SeeYou190
 
richhotrain
The problem is lack of weight to force the trucks down onto the rails. The solution is added weight or strong(er) springs. Those trucks, especially the pilot truck, hate curves and detest turnouts. 

My brass locomotives have zero problems with pilot or trailing trucks derailing. The pilot truck on my Spectrum 2-8-0 never came off of the rails, nor do the "2" or "4" of my Spectrum EM-1 2-8-8-4 locomotive.

I have not run my Mantua 2-6-6-2 or IHC 2-10-2 enough to know about these yet.

This is not a problem I have had to deal with. 

Count your blessings!

Rich

Alton Junction

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 10:12 AM

richhotrain
The problem is lack of weight to force the trucks down onto the rails. The solution is added weight or strong(er) springs. Those trucks, especially the pilot truck, hate curves and detest turnouts.

My brass locomotives have zero problems with pilot or trailing trucks derailing. The pilot truck on my Spectrum 2-8-0 never came off of the rails, nor do the "2" or "4" of my Spectrum EM-1 2-8-8-4 locomotive.

I have not run my Mantua 2-6-6-2 or IHC 2-10-2 enough to know about these yet.

This is not a problem I have had to deal with.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    November 2013
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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 9:17 AM

I think that many of us run our trains on very tight radius, which causes all sorts of problems. I run my steam on 22" radius curves and I've done a lot of tweaking to get my steamers to run on them.

Simon

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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 6:04 AM

Those pilot trucks and trailing trucks on HO scale steam engines are terrible. Shame on the manufacturers who fail to design trucks that will hold to the rails. The pilot truck is typically bad, and the trailing truck is typically awful. That trailing truck typically rides the rails like a handful of Mexican jumping beans.

The problem is lack of weight to force the trucks down onto the rails. The solution is added weight or strong(er) springs. Those trucks, especially the pilot truck, hate curves and detest turnouts.

I have actually sold more than one steam engine because I could not keep the trucks on the rails without derailing here and there.

Rich

Alton Junction

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  • From: Southeast Texas
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Posted by mobilman44 on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 5:28 AM

Lots of good info and fixes !

Years ago I had a Spectrum 2-8-0 that was pretty sensitive.  I got a piece of solder and wound it around the lead truck axle.  It definitely helped, but of course if my track had been perfect, etc., etc., the problem would never have happened.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, October 26, 2021 10:41 PM

If you have pretty much bulletproof trackwork, get yourself a steamer and discover how much you're wrong.  I've done this several times.  Yes, steam engines ARE more fussy and will find slight imperfections.

When you fix your trackwork to accommodate all your steam engines, then you will have accomplished something.

One thing you can do for those pilot trucks and sometimes trailing trucks is add a bit of extra weight to the trucks themselves.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by selector on Tuesday, October 26, 2021 7:20 PM

Ted Zieger

I have two ho scale steam engines where the front truck floats but is so light it derails easy. Any ideas on a fix?

 

Likely sources of trouble, and if it happens at certain spots, it'll happen to more than just this one steamer if it's that particular spot...probably...:

a. rail heights too far apart across from each other.  Often it's the outer rail on a curve that is a bit too low.  The longer steamer frame with drivers under a good chunk of it, means the two trucks literally dangle at time if the entire frame is forced high on the outside just as the lead axle on the lead truck encounters a low spot two or three inches ahead of the drivers;

b. the axle on the truck, or both of them if there are two, could be just that much out of gauge to cause trouble;

c. whether spring exists or doesn't, the part of the tongue that the screw goes through to secure the truck to the frame is bent, deformed, torsioned/twisted, has flashing that causes binding in azimuth....not sure.  Even the spring, itself, might be digging in or binding and preventing the truck tongue from swinging enough, or smoothly;

d. the screw is too tight, or it could even be the wrong screw....!  Happens;

e. there is meant to be a spring, but there ain't one. Tongue Tied

f. the lead axle of the drivers isn't seated in the bearing boxes quite correctly. It might mean that one driver lifts and tilts the frame just enough that, with the screw and spring in place and in good order, the truck frame gets horsed at an angle just enough to make a flange lift and clear the rail head (not likely, but it's worth determining if all else fails).

I do feel that some weight might help, but it is worth taking a cold and sober look at the loco seated on a mirror with good light all around.  Does it look like all axles are in their proper places, no wheels lifted?  With the loco on the mirror, can you slide a kabob skewer under either axle on the truck and lift some to see what happens? Can you lift only the front axle and find the rear staying pretty much put?  Does the whole want to lift?  How much play do you think is reasonable to allow for some rail height problems inherent in all human hobby track laying?

With the loco set on some blocks but only supported by all drivers, do both trucks hang a bit from their pivot points?  If not, there's your problem.  Both trucks should be able to dip and elevate by about 6 degrees, maybe a little bit less.

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Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:38 PM

Make sure the wheels are in gauge.  Being light, they dont track well so gauge is important there. Same goes for the track at the points it is derailing. the rail could be out of gauge.

 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:12 PM

This is an annoying problem that I've faced many times... Here are a few options:

1) Many locos will have a spring that forces the front truck downward. Make sure the tension is there and that nothing prevents it from functionning properly. The configuration will change from loco to loco. As mentioned above, in some cases it is held by a screw that can adjust the spring pressure (I believe this is only for four wheel configurations).

2) If the truck is held by an extended arm (vs. a screw), and that there is no spring involved, you can carve a piece of weight and glue it on the truck. I've done this several times with success. You need a good fit that won't create a short with the frame.

3) Make sure the wheels are turning freely.

4) You can also look at the track to see if the culprit is from that source. Uneven track (laterally) can "rock" the truck in curves and create a derailment. Adding shims under the track can bring it back to level. If a turnout is involved, you might have to file something off to prevent the truck from jumping.

Simon

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, October 26, 2021 2:48 PM

Ted,

Two things to try...

  1. Loosen/tighten the front truck spring screw so that there is more downward force onto the rails
  2. Replace the front spring with a slightly stronger one

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Tuesday, October 26, 2021 2:39 PM

Welcome

You probably noticed that your first few posts are moderated, delaying the post times a bit.

On your question, can you be a bit more specific as to what the two models are? Brand? Wheel configuration (such as 2-8-2, etc...) of each? 

Does it always occur on cuves? Turnouts? A certain particular spot on the layout? Sporadically?

It's a bit hard to answer the question as posted, as it could be any one of a number of issues causing it, and not all have the same fix.

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
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Steam engines derailing
Posted by Ted Zieger on Saturday, October 23, 2021 9:28 AM

I have two ho scale steam engines where the front truck floats but is so light it derails easy. Any ideas on a fix?

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