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gallium vs. lead

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 6, 2021 11:36 AM

This reminds me of some of the 'formulas' in those old-time books of formulas, or the Boy Mechanic books that were parodied in the Iggulden 'dangerous' books.

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Wednesday, October 6, 2021 12:13 AM
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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:51 PM

It's like the old joke, which is heavier, a pound of iron or a pound of feathers? What you want is density (pounds per cubic inch) - iron wins every time

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Posted by mvlandsw on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:18 PM

One of the model magazines once published a tip for connecting lighting in model buildings while allowing them to be easily lifted off the layout. A hole was drilled part way through the layout surface and filled with mercury. A wire from the power supply was placed in the mercury and another wire from the building dipped into the mercury when the building was placed on the layout; a kind of open faced mercury switch.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 5:51 PM

PC101
Huh, what did you say? What? Say that again.

He said that the whole idea of 'realistic' dumping slag was toy-train-like, and that adding the sounds would be even more toy-train-like so it bolsters his resolve to stay DC-only.

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Posted by PC101 on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 4:07 PM

I think sound might also be a requirement for more realism.  (Another reason why I don't use, or need, DCC.)

Wayne

 

[/quote]

Huh, what did you say? What? Say that again.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 3:56 PM

doctorwayne
...such animation is still just another version of Lionel's "giraffe car".

To be honest, I'd think of it as being more like the Lionel milk-can loader, or those stock cars with the buzzing livestock.  It was the mercury pretending to be molten steel that qualifies for full giraffe-car... or maybe the nuclear-waste car with the flickering 'radioactive' light... status.

I think you're right about the sound -- would want to have a Rolling Thunder subwoofer, no?  And wouldn't there have to be some concealed smoke generators and fans or whatever down under the roadbed somewhere?

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 12:46 PM

Overmod
...(if you want the slag experience, make an appropriately viscous silicone fluid, dye it with the right combination of UV-fluorescent dyes to show color and dimming when illuminated with different combinations of intensity and wavelength, and provide hidden UV illumination for 'dumping time'.)

Good advice, Overmod, but in my opinion, such animation is still just another version of Lionel's "giraffe car".

I've seen plenty of slag-dumping (and a couple smaller spills of steel and iron) in my time in the steel industry....I think sound might also be a requirement for more realism.  (Another reason why I don't use, or need, DCC.)

Wayne

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:18 AM

Lastspikemike
Mercury is basically highly poisonous

As opposed to acidically highly poisonous? Whistling

The dangerous forms of mercury are the ones that are bioavailable -- not the metallic element in liquid phase.  Ethyl- and methylmercury are particularly ghastly in that respect: in fact more dangerous than the depleted uranium that was being bandied about a few posts ago.

But rubbing a little mercury on a coin isn't going to poison you, any more than amalgam in your teeth will.  Even, I suspect, after the lovely shiny coin turns green with age...

Having said that... using mercury in adequate quantities to simulate metal pours?  At Lionel O-27 level of fidelity since the stuff in bottle cars or slag dumps isn't silvery-colored?  That's like... well, like using unplated DU weights in locomotives because you want contest winners.  "Basically" risk out of proportion to reason, indeed.  Gallium will ruin most metallic stuff it touches, both irreversibly and with no practical way to get it out or stop it once it starts...

(if you want the slag experience, make an appropriately viscous silicone fluid, dye it with the right combination of UV-fluorescent dyes to show color and dimming when illuminated with different combinations of intensity and wavelength, and provide hidden UV illumination for 'dumping time'.)

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:06 AM

Lastspikemike

One assumes this is firmly tongue in cheek. Mercury is basically highly poisonous and deserves the highest level of respect if you have to make use of it.

I thought we were in the business of simulating reality here...

 

 

I thought by now everyone knew that you could only coat mercury on a copper penny one time, in your entire life--the second time, you die a horrible death.  And the third time is even worse.

 

Here is a presentation concerning mercury:

 

https://app.croneri.co.uk/feature-articles/mercury-and-its-compounds-safe-handling-and-dealing-spillages#:~:text=Avoid%20inhaling%20mercury%20vapor%20and%20use%20suitable%20gloves,data%20sheet%20%28MSDS%29%20for%20mercury%20before%20using%20it.

 

Summing up: Do not heat up your mercury.  Do not ingest your mercury.  Do not spill/lose track of your mercury.  When you're tired of playing with it, dispose of it properly (look it up).

 

Ed

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Posted by Enzoamps on Monday, October 4, 2021 11:42 PM

Just looked, you can buy gallium on Amazon.  $575 for a kilogram

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, October 4, 2021 3:57 PM

mvlandsw

If gallium is liquid at fairly low temperatures I wonder if it could be used to represent molten steel filling a mold or slag being dumped from a slag car.

Getting the right color might be difficult.

 

 

I mentioned earlier in this topic that gallium melts around 86F.  So I guess it depends on what temperature you keep your layout at.

 

I also mentioned in an earlier post the possibility of using mercury, which melts at -40F.  So it's liquid at all normal room termperatures, and would be a better choice.  I see you can get it from Amazon.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by mvlandsw on Monday, October 4, 2021 3:42 PM

If gallium is liquid at fairly low temperatures I wonder if it could be used to represent molten steel filling a mold or slag being dumped from a slag car.

Getting the right color might be difficult.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:16 PM

PC101
No lie, right now I have close to 2000+ lbs of lead in sheets, ingots, window weights and CI pipe joints. Wayback when the scrap yard was giving .08 a lb. I figured it was not worth it to take in, so I stock piled it.

Bow

A few years ago there was internet rumors (lies) that sheet lead was going to be "outlawed", so I bought a lifetime supply.

Your stash however, puts mine to shame, and I never stamped any specialized shapes.

Great work!

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by CSX Robert on Sunday, October 3, 2021 12:10 AM

MisterBeasley

Can you go to your local bait and tackle shop and buy gallium fishing weights?

 

Well you can't go to your local bait and tackle shop and buy depleted uranium fishing weights either, so I guess by your logic lead is more dense than depleted uranium.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, October 2, 2021 11:55 PM

PC101
and Stewart slope sheets cut and punched, ready to install.

I used the supplied steel slope sheet weights on my Stewart U-channel hoppers, but used a utility knife to cut sheet lead into ones that fit atop the slope sheets and into the hopper bays. 
The regular Stewart hoppers, when empty, are rather light, so the extra weight helps to keep them tracking well.  Loaded, each car tips the scales at 9oz.

Wayne

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Posted by PC101 on Saturday, October 2, 2021 10:09 PM

I'll stick with lead, everything else here seems complicated and costly for me.

Maybe 25 years ago I made the mistake of saying at a supply house, "I'll take a piece of the sheet lead, cut me a'' (I do not remember the exact size I asked for) but let's say it was maybe 4' x 6' maybe 8'. I bearly could lift it on to the truck let alone get it up to the second floor of the shop. This is the only piece of lead I bought besides 2 or 3 pre-package what 1'' x 12'' strips which IIRC had painted ends (yellow or green) to identify the thickness. Well I did buy a gallon can of Fishing sinkers at an Auction cheap because nobody wanted them.

No lie, right now I have close to 2000+ lbs of lead in sheets, ingots, window weights and CI pipe joints. Wayback when the scrap yard was giving .08 a lb. I figured it was not worth it to take in, so I stock piled it.

The below picture shows Bowser caboose floor weights and Stewart slope sheets cut and punched, ready to install.

 

 

 

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, October 2, 2021 7:59 PM

You can get 5 pounds of lead for the price of one pound of Cerrobend.  And it's 25% heavier.

I would reserve it for special purposes, like filling an irregular void.  Speaking of which, compared to lead shot, it has no voids.  That can wipe out lead's higher density.

 

Ed

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 2, 2021 7:41 PM

doctorwayne
Given the weight of lead compare to most other metals, the ease with which it can be re-shaped, and its relatively low cost, why would you bother using anything else for weight in your locomotives or rolling stock?

Actually there is one contender: lead-bismuth eutectic (which is slightly heavier than lead and melts at a reasonably low temperature for 'home' casting but above attic or 'in the sun' storage...

This is one of the sensible nuclear coolants, like NaK without the reactivity... if you overlook that l'il business about polonium-210.

I still dimly remember books from the '50s that advocated Cerro-Bend (melts in boiling water!) and Woods metal from sprinkler activation for homemade weights...

For the sake of one more whack at the equine: the use of gallium anywhere in weights would be solely as an alloying agent with lead to decrease melting point.  Let me stick all the nerd stuff in a reference link that only the interested would need to peruse.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02663678

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, October 2, 2021 11:41 AM

Paper cutter is an excellent choice.  Scissors work well, too.

Tinsnips are NOT necessary.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, October 2, 2021 11:23 AM

7j43k
I bought sheet lead off of Amazon in 3 thicknesses: 1/64, 1/32, 1/16.  Quite a bit of it, actually. I recommend that approach.

I used to pound fishing weights flat, then I bought the sheet lead like you described. An old paper cutter from a thrift store cut it into sections that fit in HO cars easily.

I also recommend this approach.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, October 2, 2021 11:14 AM

Darth Santa Fe

...unless you're modeling a hot metal facility that needs liquid metal to look good.

 

Hmm...

I've saved out a whole pile of mercury light switches, from Olden Tymes.  Since I already made a "silver" penny, maybe I've got a use for it/them.

 

 

Ed

 

PS:  Gallium melts at 85.57F.  So, not only might a motor in a locomotive cause it to melt, so might Florida or Texas.

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Saturday, October 2, 2021 11:01 AM

I use lead shot from a diving bag to make weights (for whatever reason, it was cheaper to get a 5lb diving bag than 5lbs of lead shot).  The lead shot is easy to melt and form without taking up much space compared to other metals, so as long as it's handled carefully, it's a very useful metal.

As others have said, gallium has too low of a melting temperature and density to be useful on railroads, unless you're modeling a hot metal facility that needs liquid metal to look good.

_________________________________________________________________

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, October 2, 2021 8:45 AM

I bought sheet lead off of Amazon in 3 thicknesses: 1/64, 1/32, 1/16.  Quite a bit of it, actually.

I recommend that approach.  I just cut out my pieces and stack them up.

Tungsten is available (so is fake tungsten, so be careful) in shapes and powder.  You, practically speaking, CAN'T shape it, so you glue it in.  

 

Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, October 1, 2021 11:53 PM

Given the weight of lead compare to most other metals, the ease with which it can be re-shaped, and its relatively low cost, why would you bother using anything else for weight in your locomotives or rolling stock?

I asked at a local tire outlet if they had any used wheel balancing weights that I could buy, and got 10 or 12lbs of them for free.

It turned out that they weren't all lead (some appeared to be zinc and others were steel, but there were lots of lead ones. 

There's a thread HERE showing how to cast your own lead weights.

Wayne

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Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Friday, October 1, 2021 10:41 PM

DSchmitt

Jim Fitzgerald's N Scale Cotton Brute set drawbar pull records - weight was depleted uranium.

 

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Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, October 1, 2021 5:25 PM

Jim Fitzgerald's N Scale Cotton Brute set drawbar pull records - weight was depleted uranium.

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, October 1, 2021 4:25 PM

banjobenne1
Does gallium weigh as much as lead?

No.

A cubic inch of gallium has less weight than a cubic inch of lead. The very first response in this thread was the correct answer.

-Kevin

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Posted by selector on Friday, October 1, 2021 2:31 PM

Gallium in europa est.

Germanium in europa est.

Gallium et germanium in europa sunt.

Desculpa me por favor. No me podia ayudar. 

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