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Ball bearing wheels

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:34 PM

Mr Ron

I found some ball bearings that measure .0469 IDx.1562 ODx.0937 Wd. They would certainly fit in a scale 33" HO wheel. Cost is about $8 per bearing. Also found some that measure 1.5mm IDx5mm ODx2.6mm WD at a cost 0f $7.77 each. Ball bearing wheels are doable if you have a lathe to bore the wheels and turn down the axels.

 

 

Intermountain doesn't list their ball bearing wheelsets with their other ones.  Perhaps they're elsewhere.  And then there's a phone call.

 

I have heard that the Intermountain ball bearings use plastic bearing races (Passenger Car List).  This would perhaps rank them as lesser quality than the $8 bearings.

Something also to consider is that you likely DON'T want ball bearings to be conducting electricity for you lighting pickup.

 

Ed

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 9:22 PM

Mr Ron
Ball bearing wheels are doable —

Be sure to post a photo when you get them finished Yes

Regards, Ed

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Posted by Mr Ron on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 8:56 PM

I found some ball bearings that measure .0469 IDx.1562 ODx.0937 Wd. They would certainly fit in a scale 33" HO wheel. Cost is about $8 per bearing. Also found some that measure 1.5mm IDx5mm ODx2.6mm WD at a cost 0f $7.77 each. Ball bearing wheels are doable if you have a lathe to bore the wheels and turn down the axels.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, October 9, 2021 5:06 AM

gmpullman
 
richhotrain
Good enough? 

Only you can answer that.

Cheers, Ed 

Good enough!

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, October 8, 2021 6:08 PM

richhotrain
Good enough?

Only you can answer that.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, October 8, 2021 2:29 PM

So, I use the standard Intermountain wheelsets on all of my rolling stock. Good enough?

Rich

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, October 8, 2021 1:03 PM

 

richhotrain
What's the conclusion to be drawn by us non-users of ball bearing wheelsets?

I mentioned my reasoning in an earlier reply:

gmpullman
I've only used them on a few brass cabooses and passenger cars that have unique trucks that are poorly designed as far as rolling qualities. The Ball bearing wheelsets improve rolling quality immensely.

The ball bearing wheelsets are a possible solution to getting better operation from equipment that may otherwise not perform well with stock wheelsets.

Strictly optional and indeed NOT the only solution available. Choices and options.

My first choice is to find Kadee or Central Valley or another good quality replacement truck but if nothing is readily available, as is often the case for a specific prototype particularly for a road like Pennsylvania which designed many of their own trucks, then the ball bearing wheelsets can be an economical solution.

Regards, Ed

 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 8, 2021 7:05 AM

richhotrain
Should we transfer out our non-ball bearing wheelsets for ball bearing wheelsets if we can afford to on all of our rolling stock?

Not in my opinion.  A good setup with coned-end-on-proper-surface will very often "beat" a microbearing for sufficiently light equipment, and have much easier setup and alignment.  I suspect it will also be easier to maintain as the years go by.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, October 8, 2021 7:00 AM

What's the conclusion to be drawn by us non-users of ball bearing wheelsets? Should we transfer out our non-ball bearing wheelsets for ball bearing wheelsets if we can afford to on all of our rolling stock?

Rich

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Posted by garyla on Thursday, October 7, 2021 9:50 PM

They're expensive, but I bought enough for three of my tri-level auto racks.  These particular freight cars have loads of 15 or 18 of the "Fresh Cherries" (or some such) brand of HO vehicles.  Each of the vehicles weighs a lot (by HO standards) and they made these auto racks quite heavy. But with the Intermountain BB wheelsets, the cars roll beautifully.

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Friday, October 1, 2021 5:22 AM

If you look at the final post in this thread there's a bit of rolling resistance testing of these wheelsets and from what I read I could see why folk who want to run a full length passenger consist with a steam locomotive would go for them.

https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/190019.aspx

 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 1, 2021 3:59 AM

Mr Ron
Doesn't sound like its truly a ball bearing. The balls would have to be less than .031" diameter. I still can't imagine it.

There was a (relatively) enormous market in these as early as the 1950s -- the early makers of precision 'micro' bearings being largely in New England at the time.  A quick way to appreciate the history is to Google ball bearings for clock applications, or to look at one of the 'missiles and space' handbooks of the Cold War era.

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, September 30, 2021 5:34 PM

Mr Ron
I did a search on McMaster Carr and came up with a ball bearing, .040" ID, .125" OD and 3/64" wide, cost: $11.43 each. I guess it's possible to have a true ball bearing wheel in HO, but not not practical at that cost.
 

 

I believe the Intermountain items ARE true ball bearings.  But I don't think they are as "wonderful" as the $11.43 ones.

 

Ed

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Posted by Mr Ron on Thursday, September 30, 2021 4:16 PM
I did a search on McMaster Carr and came up with a ball bearing, .040" ID, .125" OD and 3/64" wide, cost: $11.43 each. I guess it's possible to have a true ball bearing wheel in HO, but not not practical at that cost.
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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:53 PM

Mr Ron

Doesn't sound like its truly a ball bearing. The balls would have to be less than .031" diameter. I still can't imagine it. I may have to contact the manufacturer and ask them.

 

 

Here you can find balls at .026" dia:

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/steel-balls/hard-wear-resistant-52100-alloy-steel-balls-7/

 

To further astound and amaze you, Rivarossi used to use motors in their HO models with ball bearings on the shaft.

 

Ed

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:44 PM

Mr Ron
Doesn't sound like its truly a ball bearing.

I would get in touch with the good folks at Intermountain and ask for their explanation, then.

intermountain@intermountain-railway.com

 

When I spin the wheels in my fingers while holding the axle points it sure spins nicely. Maybe that's where the idea of those spinners the kids are into these days came from.

They are NOT a "precision" bearing by any means. I doubt they would hold up too well in a 420,000 rpm dental drill but for an HO railroad car, IF you need them for a car that is otherwise a "lead sled" they CAN be an option.

I don't think anyone out there has outfitted their five-hundred car roster with them.

Regards, Ed

 

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Posted by Mr Ron on Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:38 PM

gmpullman

  

Mr Ron
Is that a ball bearing with inner and outer race?

I've never pried one open but there certainly is a low-friction bearing in there. The "inner race" may be the axle shaft itself and the "outer race" might be the hub machined into the back of the wheel.

There is a little bit of play (slop in technical terms) between the axle shaft and the wheel/tube assembly. In operation this slop has no bearing in their operation.

YMMV

Cheers, Ed

 

 Doesn't sound like its truly a ball bearing. The balls would have to be less than .031" diameter. I still can't imagine it. I may have to contact the manufacturer and ask them.

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:24 PM

doctorwayne
So the wheels on each axle rotate independently?

No, they are more akin to the "quill drive" of a GG1 locomotive. The pointed axle shaft passes through a tube in one piece. The wheels are pressed on to the tube with one end being insulated so if you have a power pickup wiper it can rub on the tube and pick up power from one wheel. There is no continuity from either wheel to the axle.

I've only used them on a few brass cabooses and passenger cars that have unique trucks that are poorly designed as far as rolling qualities. The Ball bearing wheelsets improve rolling quality immensely.

doctorwayne
but also sounds like it might be a little rough on the wallet.

$20 worth of wheelsets on a $800 passenger car, in order to make it road-worthy, seemed like an OK investment for me. I recall I bought some from a train show dealer at one time and the cost was something closer to $2.25 (US) per wheelset.

Mr Ron
Is that a ball bearing with inner and outer race?

I've never pried one open but there certainly is a pair of low-friction bearings in there. The "inner race" may be the axle shaft itself and the "outer race" might be the hub machined into the back of the wheel.

There is a little bit of play (slop in technical terms) between the axle shaft and the wheel/tube assembly. In operation this slop has no bearing in their operation.

YMMV

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Mr Ron on Thursday, September 30, 2021 2:59 PM

Is that a ball bearing with inner and outer race?

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, September 30, 2021 2:03 PM

gmpullman

Trucks_Brass-Intermountain by Edmund, on Flickr

 Trucks_Brass-Intermountain1 by Edmund, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

 

So the wheels on each axle rotate independently? 

Sounds like it might be a good thing on curves, but also sounds like it might be a little rough on the wallet.

Wayne

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, September 30, 2021 1:10 PM

See the source image

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, September 30, 2021 12:38 PM

 Trucks_Brass-Intermountain by Edmund, on Flickr

 Trucks_Brass-Intermountain1 by Edmund, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

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Ball bearing wheels
Posted by Mr Ron on Thursday, September 30, 2021 12:31 PM

I've heard of ball bearing wheels in HO, but I just can't imagine ball bearings small enough to be a reality. Can someone clear this up for me? I've seen ball bearings as small as 1/4" outside diameter, but can't imagine anything smaller than that. To me it's like puting a ball bearing inside a watch mechanism instead of a jewel bearing.

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