I have not, but I would advise caution. Real steam locomotives could run on flooded track, as long as the water level was below the ash pan, but models can't. Real water would short the track, and artificial water (unless it is below the level of the ties) will be hard to make work. If it's up to the level of the rails, you would need to somehow route out flangeways so the equipment can clear.
It might make a nice non operating scenic feature, though.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
One of the things that I'd like to model on the logging railroad is having the rails in a streambed, so the train "fords the stream." There's a nice picture of such on the cover of West Virginia Logging Railroads, for example.
Has anyone modelled a train crossing a stream? I have some basic ideas of how to do it, but am interested in any thoughts, tips. Or if you have actually done it, I'd love to see the result.
Andy
I posted this logging link a while ago. Packed with subtle details and logger or not, just some great historic enjoyment. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WJRPzZTUUBg#fauxfullscreen
Hello All,
When I was considering the various industries to model logging was an option for me too.
In the end, I finally decided on a freelance coal mining branch, roughly based on the Western Slope of Colorado from the 1970s to the 1980s.
An "Olde Tyme" excursion train runs over the historic spiral trestle that serves the mine with steep grades and tight curves.
The excursion train is pulled by USRA 0-6-0 with a Vanderbilt tender (converted to oil).
A 0-6-0 Side Tank Porter (also converted to burn oil) acts as a helper up the 3% grade.
Side Tank engines do not have a tender. The fuel and water are carried on board, thus needing more frequent fuel and water stops over locos with tenders (another modeling opportunity for fueling facilities along the line).
In logging operations; with steep grades, tight curves, and relatively short distances, Side Tank and/or "Camel Back" steam engines along with other 0-4-0, 0-6-0, and 0-8-0 engines could be used.
As has been posted, many logging operations used a mish-mash of older locos- -either steam or diesel- -depending on the era.
Yes, geared steam locomotives were popular options for the more affluent logging operations, but don't discount the viability of smaller, self-contained, steamers on your logging pike.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
snjroyI did not know that PFM did HOn3.
They did some. Some had convertor trucks applied that PFM supplied, with varying results. This one, assuming the box is original and I'm not absolutely sure on that, came HOn3, the Cowichan 25-ton Shay.
When you get the MDC HOn3 done after dealing with a Keystone, too, then you'll well deserve the Trifecta of Shay builds.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Nice PFM... I did not know that PFM did HOn3.
My MDC definitely benefitted from the NWSL gears and universals. But the ultimate project for me was the Keystone Shay with NWSL powering kit. Got that one done too, and the thing actually runs! What's left on the shelf is an MDC HOn3. I'll get to it some day.
Simon
snjroyMike, I have a Roundhouse Shay that runs "OK". I learned a lot about how Shays work while building the kit. One of my favorites is my little 18 ton Shay (Katsumi) that runs like a champ.
Simon,
You are a stubbornly more industrious modeler than I. I acquired one of the MDC Shay kits when they first came out (like 1984-ish?) started it then quit. I acquired a MDC Shay Handbook at a Narrow Gauge Convention (Colo Spgs 1998?). Took another crack at it and quit. Started on my diss and needed projects to distract from that, so took another crack at it and quit. Decided to sell the Handbook at a nice profit, then sold the box of parts partially assembled to avoid wasting more time on this frustrating endeavour.
I hear they run pretty good if you get all the tweaks done per the Handbook. Not something for the faint-of-hearted.
I have one little PFM Shay purchased from the estate of our division's only narrowgauger besides me. I added DCC, lights and a keepalive to what was already a great-running mechanism.
One thing to keep in mind- logging bunks are slightly different from flat cars, but good models have been made by Kadee, Keystone Locomotive Works, Red Ball, and NWSL, in addition to MDC. If you want to build a couple of MDC Shays, you might be interested in "The MDC Shay Handbook," which has a lot of advice on tweaking and improving them.
You might also check out the just-published "Timber Titans: Baldwin's Articulated Logging Locomotives." There were a lot of logging Mallets, and models of them are still available in brass.
DanRaitz snjroy Yes, my understanding is that many logging operations acquired older 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s that were retired from mainline RRs. I'm betting that was the case of the loco shown in that link. Simon B&NM #1 was acquired new from Baldwin, CN#12890 in 1892. Became Minnsota & International #1 in 1901. Disposition: unknown. Dan
snjroy Yes, my understanding is that many logging operations acquired older 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s that were retired from mainline RRs. I'm betting that was the case of the loco shown in that link. Simon
Yes, my understanding is that many logging operations acquired older 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s that were retired from mainline RRs. I'm betting that was the case of the loco shown in that link.
B&NM #1 was acquired new from Baldwin, CN#12890 in 1892. Became Minnsota & International #1 in 1901. Disposition: unknown.
Dan
As mentioned, many logging companies acquired used steam locos from larger railroads, my system never had a shay or a specific logging loco, all older castoffs from big railroads.
snjroyOne last thing: we often forget that there were a lot of regular steam engines doing logging work as well.
In Minnesota, the majority of logging locomtives were standard rod engines, a lot of 2-6-0's or smaller.
B---NM-Engine--1.jpg (400×182) (crowwinghistory.org)
Brainerd & Northern Minnesota #1 (Cicra:1892)
Keystone Locomotive Works made a lot of interesting logging stuff and can be found on Ebay.
MDC/ROUNDHOUSE 26' log cars do have the same under carrage/frame as the Old Time 26' tank cars. Just in case you see a very low cost/busted up tank car for cheap.
I see above that IHC was mentioned, there is a really neat Barnhart loader.
I'm so glad I found this forum; lots of info from experienced modellers!
I love reading, so just ordered the book you recommended. I did see some Shays on eBay but they all had problems with the gears, so I'd rather steer clear of that. I'm going to search around for a Rivarossi engine, etc. I'm modelling in the 1950's since it's closest to my childhood and steam was still around, but a diesel would not be out of place. Lots of options so need some time for research.
I'm not into kitbashing at this time, but I think that's something I would like to learn more about.
Thanks,Andy
I'm definitely going to have to make a trip to Cass Scenic for research -- but also for fun and the beauty of the place.
I did a few searches online and came across the Bachmann Shay in HO (discontinued). I suspect they had problems with the gears since all of them on eBay have stripped gears. I never heard of Rivarossi, so thank you for that tip.
mlehman Good brass Shays can seem pricey, but are affordable if you want steam. They should be test run if possible, but the old school PFM mechabism is simpler than it may at first seem. Also consider diesels as motive power. Not much prototype for that in WV, but a little imgination will solve that.
Good brass Shays can seem pricey, but are affordable if you want steam. They should be test run if possible, but the old school PFM mechabism is simpler than it may at first seem.
Also consider diesels as motive power. Not much prototype for that in WV, but a little imgination will solve that.
20200806_121804 on Flickr
Mike, I have a Roundhouse Shay that runs "OK". I learned a lot about how Shays work while building the kit. One of my favorites is my little 18 ton Shay (Katsumi) that runs like a champ. Here is a photo taken at the club:
DSC_0111b on Flickr
I forgot to mention that IHC produced some short skeleton cars (35 feet?) that are nice, if you can find them.
One last thing: we often forget that there were a lot of regular steam engines doing logging work as well. This Mantua is pretty close to what Baldwin produced for logging and mining operations. With a bit of tweaking, it can become a pretty smooth runner. I added DCC and sound...
20200927_135312b on Flickr
I have lots of logging on my railroad
Locomotives: Rivarossi or Bachmann - there are shays, a climax and a Heisler. Brass does offer more alternatives but do try to see it run and buy it painted if you can to save some labor and possible headaches. Mantua offers a 2-6-6-2 that looks and runs decentlty (get the new run - not old pizza cutter wheel version)
Log cars: check out Kadee for skeletons, shorty cabooses and truss cars, Rivarossi for log skeleton cars, Keystone for buggies and climax log cars, Rio Grande models for YV log Bunks, small logging cabooses and shorty flat cars - they also make lots of other logging equipment, MDC for short logging skeleton cars. There are also brass skeleton cars that can be had for a decent price from time to time (NWSL and others). Bachmann has some cool OOP steam donkeys that are excellent and worth looking for...I have also scratch built short flat cars and skeleton cars both are a fairly easy build.
Logs: I go with real sticks - bottle brush has the right texture. Kadee cars come with their own plastic logs which can look great with some work - Rivarrossi cars also come with loads that look OK - I gave mine away rather than fuss with them to make em' look better...
Have fun,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I operate my layout as a turn of the century (1900) logging operation (standard rail not narrow gauge) as well as regular 1950s transition era. I have several Shay locomotives as well as a bunch of regular steam and diesels from the 1950 era. I model the southern New Mexico (Alamogordo, Cloudcroft) area which was standard gauge logging in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
http://npshistory.com/publications/usfs/region/3/lincoln/cultres4/sec1.htmThe Southern Pacific logged the Sacramento Mountains in southern New Mexico for ties in the late 1890s early 1900s.
Early on I went with an MDC Roundhouse Shay kit, not an easy build. After a lengthy process I was able to make it run very good. I added three more to my fleet over the years. I purchased a Bachmann Shay about 10 years ago and it wasn’t without problems either. I finally worked out the problems with it and I now have five very nice running logging locomotives.I added a 2-6-6-2 articulated logging locomotive about 12 years ago.For rolling stock I went with MDC Roundhouse log cars early on and added a couple dozen Walther’s log cars in 2000.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place as many forum members have in-depth knowledge about the prototype and the modeling of logging operations. Here are a few thoughts:
1) First, documentation: If you like paper, I would recommend the book "Model railroader's guide to logging railroads". It's full of info on both the prototype and the modeling aspects. Otherwise, the Web is full of good info.
2) While there is a variety of equipment in HO available new and used out there, you should do some homework before purchasing, especially the locos. I agree that the Rivarossi's are solid performers (now only available on the used market or old new-in-box). Beware of some of the HO Bachmann logging locomotives, some suffered from the plastic gear design that are prone to failure (although a fix is available from NWSL - but the installation is not for the novice). On the other hand, most of the Blackstone (owned by Bachmann) narrow gauge models (Hon3) are solid performers.
3) Brass is the only option in many cases, and the good news is that the prices of used brass are quite reasonable. PFM models are pretty much bullet-proof, but a test run is advisable. The vast majority will be in DC in the used market. On30 models are certainly appealing, but they are practically offered by only one manufacturer. Some geared locos are also fragile in that line. There is also HOn30, which is HO scale in 2 foot rail. A niche market. Models are available from Europe and Japan.
4) Flatcars: Kadee, Rivarossi and Roundhouse, in no particular order, are first grade for skeleton-type cars. Bachmann also has nice flatcars.
5) If you like kitbashing, there is a whole new world to discover with 3D prints. Check the Shapeways Website.
Class scenic is a good place to look. It is a once logging now working museum operation. And is in west virginia. Rivarossi makes geared engines in HO. And the cars too. I can't think of the other places that do
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space