A funny thing happen to me today. I have used Kadee HO trucks in the past. So last night I was working on a Accurail 40' NYC jade green box car and I had no trucks that I could find and liked the looks of to install. Well I see you guys talking about Tangent, Intermountain and Kadee trucks and wheels and I am thinking I have not used any Kadee trucks in a while, so off to the LHS, I buy Kadee #550 self-centering 50-T Bettendorf 33'' smooth back wheels compleat with centering bushing and 2-56 screws. Ok, maybe I should get some other set also for another project that I did not start or even thought of yet (a body can never have too many extra parts). Look at those nice #551 self-centering Arch bar trucks 33'' ribbed back wheels compleat with centering bushing and 2-56 screws.
At the work bench that day I look at the package and see the contents before removing the ''security'' staple, I open the #550 pack and install the trucks, centering bushings and screws, wait a minute, a steel screw, o well. I at least thought the screws would have been brass. Trucks look nice and center nicely. I guess I could say I was disappointed about not having brass screws.
I now look at the #551 package to see the contents and I see no screws or centering bushings at all. What now, the "security" staple is in place. Before I open the package I really needed to looked harder, yep no centering bushings or screws. I never opened the package yet. I guess the Kadee spirits showed me. Aha PC101, you complained about the steel screws now you get no screws, or bushings.
If my LHS has no Kadee centering bushings I think I will try to contact Kadee and see if I can get some centering bushing from them. That is one item I do not have extra laying around.
I do not see the centering bushings having a Kadee part number. So I guess no packaged items at my LHS. I guess when I use those #551s I'll just use a brass screw without the centering bushings.
PC101:
I am the biggest Kadee fan alive, and I also wish they would put brass screws in the package with their self-centering trucks. I insist all my frieght cars are 100% non-magnetic except for the uncoupling pin.
About the centering bushings: I lost a pair of these a couple of years ago. I sent Sam at Kadee a note. He provided me with ordering information for obtaining the needed bushings. I purchased a few extras as "insurance", because I am sure I will lose more in the future.
Kadee has always been very helpful in these situations. Sam has helped me order a few detail parts that did not have a published part number.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Kevin, Thank you for your thought. I know if Kadee/Sam put just one extra centering bushing in each package of a set of trucks, many people would think 'what is one extra piece' but one extra piece in thousands of packages adds up to extra cost. Now I am wondering how many other packaged sets of trucks are missing the centering bushings? But I am a little wiser and will look closer at all Kadee truck packages from now on before I buy them.
Bob, PC101
For what little this is worth, I have probably bought 50 pairs of self-centering trucks, and none of them have been missing the bushings.
My bet, some other human was into that package even though the staple was in place.
OR, are you sure they are #551 self centering or the older #501 trucks? They still make both. Again maybe someone was into that package. Look carefully to se that it really is the self centering bolster with the bevels inside the screw hole.
Why would a brass screw be better? If you say rust, I'm going say build your layout, and store your trains in a better environment.
A steel screw will act more as a self tapping screw.
I have 60 year old Athearn blue box cars with no rust on the weights or the screws......
For whatever it is worth, I have Kadee trucks on about 800 freight cars and have never had a defective product. And I refit them with Intermountain wheelset to make them VERY free rolling.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhy would a brass screw be better?
Kadee #308 uncoupling magnets will attract ANYTHING that is even slightly magnetic.
I have a Lambert brass transfer caboose that has one steel part on the inside of the body. It accidentally uncouples every time it goes over a #308 uncoupler. The magnet attracts the car, puts slack into the couplers, and then they seperate over the magnet.
If you do not use #308 uncouplers, there is probably no advantage to a brass screw over the screws that come with the Kadee self centering trucks.
The screws that do come with these trucks are not very magnetic, but they will stick to a #308. I replace them with brass as a "better safe than sorry", and "easier to do it now" condition, rather than hunt them all down later if they cause problems.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Why would a brass screw be better? Kadee #308 uncoupling magnets will attract ANYTHING that is even slightly magnetic. I have a Lambert brass transfer caboose that has one steel part on the inside of the body. It accidentally uncouples every time it goes over a #308 uncoupler. The magnet attracts the car, puts slack into the couplers, and then they seperate over the magnet. If you do not use #308 uncouplers, there is probably no advantage to a brass screw over the screws that come with the Kadee self centering trucks. The screws that do come with these trucks are not very magnetic, but they will stick to a #308. I replace them with brass as a "better safe than sorry", and "easier to do it now" condition, rather than hunt them all down later if they cause problems. -Kevin
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Why would a brass screw be better?
Not a problem I have ever had, but my use of fixed magnets is limited to harder to reach industrial sidings. Never on the mainline because normal slack action in longer trains with free rolling trucks will do that no matter the kind of screw, or steel weights, or whatever.
ATLANTIC CENTRALNot a problem I have ever had, but my use of fixed magnets is limited to harder to reach industrial sidings.
My two HO layouts I have built so far were both quite small, and I used the #308 magnets for all locations.
I plan to use the Rapido Rail-Crew uncouplers (if they are available) for the next layout, so ferrous materials will not be as much of a concern in the future.
I will still avoid them as normal practice.
SeeYou190 PC101: I am the biggest Kadee fan alive, and I also wish they would put brass screws in the package with their self-centering trucks. I insist all my frieght cars are 100% non-magnetic except for the uncoupling pin. -Kevin
I know I am not the biggest Kadee fan but I do have a good stash of Kadee couplers and such, including freight car parts.
SeeYou190 For what little this is worth, I have probably bought 50 pairs of self-centering trucks, and none of them have been missing the bushings. -Kevin
I am going back to my LHS and with a bright little flashlight and a magnifing glass and check out the #551 self-centering trucks. I'll report back later.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL My bet, some other human was into that package even though the staple was in place. OR, are you sure they are #551 self centering or the older #501 trucks? They still make both. Again maybe someone was into that package. Look carefully to se that it really is the self centering bolster with the bevels inside the screw hole. Why would a brass screw be better? If you say rust, I'm going say build your layout, and store your trains in a better environment. A steel screw will act more as a self tapping screw. I have 60 year old Athearn blue box cars with no rust on the weights or the screws...... For whatever it is worth, I have Kadee trucks on about 800 freight cars and have never had a defective product. And I refit them with Intermountain wheelset to make them VERY free rolling. Sheldon
Your bet...maybe. That will be one hard bet to cash in.
OR, am I sure they are a #551 Self-Centering...yes, the package says so. And I can see the bevels.
Why would a brass screw be better? Nothing to do with rust. Just non magnetic and I like brass screws.
A steel screw will act more as a self tapping screw. The jury is still out on that one.
Your 60 year old Athearn BB cars have no rust on the weights or screws. Same here, no rust.
For whatever it is worth. The #551 truck was not defective, it just had missing parts. Intermountain wheel set in Kadee trucks, I just may try that. Thanks Sheldon.
Lastspikemike Your LHS will replace the package and get the missing parts from Kadee. It is actually quite easy to reinsert the security staple back into the exact same holes, if you have the same stapler and you're sufficiently dishonest, so post Kadee tampering cannot be ruled out. Most honest people can't imagine what some will do for a few bucks. It can even be done right in the store if you really aren't risk averse. If it is really a QA issue with Kadee I'll say what amazes me is how infrequently this occurs, as in never to me. Made in the USA with the expensive labour that implies and I've never received a Kadee product with anything missing. It will happen as in any such manufacturing system, but not often. Pretty impressive by any measure. The steel screws I've received with Kadee products are plated so will not rust unless fitted to a U boat...
Your LHS will replace the package and get the missing parts from Kadee.
It is actually quite easy to reinsert the security staple back into the exact same holes, if you have the same stapler and you're sufficiently dishonest, so post Kadee tampering cannot be ruled out. Most honest people can't imagine what some will do for a few bucks. It can even be done right in the store if you really aren't risk averse.
If it is really a QA issue with Kadee I'll say what amazes me is how infrequently this occurs, as in never to me. Made in the USA with the expensive labour that implies and I've never received a Kadee product with anything missing. It will happen as in any such manufacturing system, but not often. Pretty impressive by any measure.
The steel screws I've received with Kadee products are plated so will not rust unless fitted to a U boat...
I will get back to my LHS and look at other Kadee Truck packages. This may well be a once in my life time mistake.
As with removing and reinserting that staple, I looked at tool marks on that staple and the packaging. It looks consistent with other staples and truck packages.
This would be my first missing parts with Kadee in 51 years. That is one excellent track record.
I stopped in at my LHS today to check out the rest of the Kadee trucks. Here is what I found.
These trucks listed below are in the blue packaging, not the light blue packaging.
All of the packaging says ''Self-Centering'' on the front and ''with supplied 2-56 screws'' on the back.
All of these numbers, every pack on the rack have the screws and bushings, #550, #552, #553, #555, #556, #557 and #558.
All of these numbers, every pack on the rack are missing the screws and bushings, #551 and #554.
Looking at the "security" stapels was a interesting time. Kadee's staples have a interesting pattern.
Now back to the light blue packaging #560 and #568 Self-Centering. The trucks have the screw and centering bushing in place in the bolster and a gray "clip" holding them in place so the screw and centering bushing can not get ''lost'' or never placed in the package, and that gray "clip" is visible from the outside of the packaging. That is a excellent move on Kadee's part.
Yep, I had nothing better to do this afternoon.
PC101All of these numbers, every pack on the rack are missing the screws and bushings, #551 and #554.
This is interesting...
I looked at several of the #551 up for sale on eBay, and the pictures clearly show the packages DO NOT contain the gray plastic bushing retainers.
The exploded drawing of the #551 on the Kadee page shows a bushing.
I think the light blue packs are equalized HGC trucks, and they need the plastic clip to hold the trucks together. Maybe the fully sprung self centering trucks in the dark blue have the bushings and screws loose in the package.
Now that I think about it, it is entirely possible that all the Kadee self-centering trucks I have purchased were the HGC style.
I hope Sam stops by and clears this up for us.
Sam: We need your input, please.
So far that I see, it is narrowed down to a select few numbers and runs. How many in each run and how long it has been going on (this may well be old news to Kadee), only one person may know that answer. One way to "fix" this would be for Kadee to send packets of screws and bushings (bushings at the least) to OFFICAL KADEE DEALERS. I show my receipt or proof of purchase to my OFFICAL KADEE DEALER and my DEALER hands me a plastic bag with the missing parts. Seems like the easy fix, but then again I may be missing something business wise.