Metrolink fan. I see a bit of confusion here that can be cleared up by asking two questions. I see nobody asked so I will. Are the couplers you have metal? Do you remember where they shipped from?
I do occassionally do have springs go rouge. either from a derailment, or in the case of locos just the frequency of use they break or bend. Or dam aliens steal them. (only explination for having it there when the car got to the location and gone when it was time to move it again)
If your having a lot of derailments, that will be a good cause of loss. The general concensus is you have knockoffs.
Shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
PM Railfan MetroLink Fan) Take a look at your faulty ones, find the reason. But do stick with Kadee. They really are the best out there! Good Luck! PMR
MetroLink Fan)
Take a look at your faulty ones, find the reason. But do stick with Kadee. They really are the best out there!
Good Luck!
PMR
IIRC when Kadee's patent expired, Couplers came out of the wood work. Yes, I left the Kadee camp for awhile just to test the waters you could say. It was not long after lost money and a Gondola with a "scrap load" half filled with Non Kadee plastic "feather or coil spring" head look-a-likes, that I ran back to Kadee Couplers. And never looked back, well...except maybe just a glance at those Sergent couplers.
MetroLink Fan) As youve read, most would agree you cant beat Kadee for couplers. Quite simply - they are the best. I must admit, ive heard of a few folks losing a knuckle spring, but not as many as you said.
A few things about Kadees to help:
1) Kadee produces a PDF called "Kadee Conversions". Get this. It will help you determine which Kadee is right for your models. (They also make "Kadee Coupler Primer" which is an intro to Kadee couplers - wouldnt hurt)
2) Kadee sells the knuckle springs seperately (among other parts). You can replace your lost springs without the extra expense of having to buy all new couplers. (and it does take patience to replace them if new to it. Experienced users can respring a coupler in seconds. Its that easy really).
3) Kadees are pretty stout. They can take a serious beating before something happens. But losing as many springs as you have lends creedence to the thought you either dont have Kadees to begin with, or if you do, they are bad in some form.
Kadee is a manufacturer like any other. They make something for a price. And like everyone else they are NOT immune to bad manufacturing runs of product. Kadee WILL honor its product IF you bought it from them, or a licensed dealer. Since you bought it online you will have to take this up with your seller. If bought on the "bay" you are covered by the 'bays' refund program.
4) I have had new in the pack couplers unopened that did have the knuckle spring missing. Either through jostling during shipping or maybe one of the Kadee "assembly girls" was having a bad day. This is why Kadee puts two extra springs in the pack.
PC101 riogrande5761 If they were genuine Kadee's, I'd think Kadee would stand behind them and not make excuses to avoid support. Disappointing if so. Some Companys do not honor warrentys on E-commerce purchases if not purchased directly from them.
riogrande5761 If they were genuine Kadee's, I'd think Kadee would stand behind them and not make excuses to avoid support. Disappointing if so.
If they were genuine Kadee's, I'd think Kadee would stand behind them and not make excuses to avoid support. Disappointing if so.
Some Companys do not honor warrentys on E-commerce purchases if not purchased directly from them.
I should think it wouldn't matter what vendor or store you bought them from, if they are genuine Kadee's, they should stand behind them.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Putting just a touch of glue on the long side of the spring before installation will help to keep the spring in place afterward. However, you still have to learn how to install the spring "before" you try using glue. Then you need to use "extreme caution" dipping into glue as too much might get into unwanted locations.
Eye sight, dexterity, patience, and a bit of bravado all are helpful if not required. I've had people ask me what's the best way to get the knuckle springs back on the couplers my first answer is to "get somebody else to do it for you"...☺
Imagine our assemble girls sitting most of the day installing knuckle springs, some of them are very fast at it.
Sam Clarke R&D Kadee Quality Products
wjstixI remember someone suggested touching one end into something like tacky glue and putting that end in place first and letting it set so one end is kinda locked in place before trying to bend the spring to connect up the other end.
I don't know who that somone was but I will support their message there.
I also tend to buy the bulk pack of No. 5 Kadees, there are always a couple (no pun intended) that the coupler coiled spring has popped out of - no doubt jostled loose in shipping from Kadee to the hobby shop. All Kadees use springs so it's an issue with all of them.
As Mike points out, there are usually also a couple extra springs in the package.You can put them back in but it's not easy. I remember someone suggested touching one end into something like tacky glue and putting that end in place first and letting it set so one end is kinda locked in place before trying to bend the spring to connect up the other end.
I guess I need to point out a few things as this thread seems to have lost it's direction, however, we do appreciate the good comments about Kadee couplers and such.
It seems the original problem was simply that the knuckle springs came off some of the couplers in the package, which is "not a factory defect or flaw", it's a result of rough handling of the package. Replacing the knuckle springs is really a part of using knuckle couplers, users need to learn how to replace the springs. The #5 and #148 couplers have the same head and there's no top spring guard as on our other couplers so these couplers are the ones that have the springs knocked off easier during handling and shipping. The following link to our web site is our returns policy and guarantee info. https://www.kadee.com/shippinginfo.htm
I read on a forum somewhere a suggestion to put a clear plastic bag (e.g. pliable produce bag?) over the coupler and your hand holding whatever spring pic tool you use. Hold the coupler with your other hand, from outside the bag. This should contain the spring from launching across the room when being installed. Haven't tried it yet, but it seems like a good idea. Maybe use a rubber band around your wrist to close the open end.
Lastspikemike You'll never break a Kadee coupler.
I'll see if I can get a picture of my two broken Kadee couplers with an air bubble in the shaft. This would be two out of maybe a quick count of 2,200 Kadee couplers that I have installed. Yep, I'll agree with Lsm, I'd say you will never break a metal Kadee coupler under ''normal operations". Now how can I get that picture to see the air bubble?
Got the picture. One metal Kadee coupler fell off the car sitting in a siding, the head was laying on the ties. It was the last car in the string but that coupler was hooked up to another Kadee. So I figured I did something dumb and just did not remember doing anything and broke it off. So I pick up that car and just ever so lightly touch the coupler on the other end and It just fell to the ties. You can see were the bubble was in the shaft. Click on the picture to open to a larger picture then you can zoom in.
Hello All,
Kadee has been the "Gold Standard" of couplers for decades.
As soon as I get a new piece of rolling stock I replace the stock couplers with Kadee.
I prefer the tried and true #5s. I have had problems with the whiskers on the 140-series breaking off.
To date, I have had 15 whisker failures with two (2) couplers having both whiskers break off. This has happened with OEM coupler boxes and the aftermarket Kadee ones- -both the #242 & #262. All body mounted.
Yes, occasionally I will lose a knuckle spring.
This has been traced to coupler shanks being too short through my 15-inch curves, "bucking" from locomotives that weren't speed matched and, "hard" coupling- -when the cars slam into each other during coupling.
If you are using truck-mounted couplers this could also cause problems with the knuckle springs.
Also, if the coupler heights are not aligned this can cause problems with the knuckles.
Using a Kadee #206 HO Insulated Coupler Height Gauge will also help you diagnose any misaligned, drooping, and other coupler problems.
Be careful using adhesives to secure the knuckle spring(s). Because of the close tolerances of the knuckles, it is easy to get some adhesive in the mechanism and foul the operation of the coupler.
When I do need to replace the knuckle springs I prefer the MicroMark Spring Grabber over the Kadee tool.
You would be hard-pressed to find a more reliable coupler, despite your unique experiences.
I doubt it is a fault with the couplers per se.
When/how do you notice the knuckle springs are missing?
Does it happen seemingly randomly, over a specific section of track, or after a period of running time?
Answering these questions will help the knowledgeable folks on these forums with your problems.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Kadee is the best and the most robust. The other "brands" - most plastic - just don't hold up.
I originally thought you received a package of the #5 couplers and they came off inside the package. If they are coming off during use then there must be something happening during coupling/uncoupling that isn't normal. I would investigate that first before switching to another brand.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
No the sprongs poped out when theywere in use on my fright cars,locomotives some wre already pioped out in the package after i opened it.I really dont want to buys these ones again.What ones shall i get are athearn ones pretty good?
The Kadee #5 is an excellent coupler. I doubt they are knock-offs if they came in the blue background package and said Kadee. My only thought would be you accidentally knocked them out. Even a light brush with a finger over the spring can cause them to come out.Maybe Sam will see this post and comment.I would just chalk it up to accidental handling and order replacement springs. I think you should contact Sam at Kadee and see if he can help you.
Edit:I can't remember a Kadee spring ever coming out without some external help. They have always had something help them. Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
My first HO scale trains, acquired in the mid-'50s, all had Kadee couplers. At that time, uncoupling was done by a diamond-shaped mechanical uncoupling ramp, which was remotely activated from the control panel. The ramp simply forced apart the straight wires which extended from the knuckles, opening them.
If the cars in those days had been more free-rolling, it might have been possible to do a flying drop if one was quick to re-align a turnout.
Here's what they looked like...
The knuckle springs were much stronger than those used nowadays, so they seldom popped-out of their own accord.
I was disappointed when Kadee phased them out, and for several years, simply snipped-off the magnetic "glad hands" from the newer style couplers, as, to me at least, they looked even less prototypical than the earlier ones.
I eventually did come around to accepting the magnetic uncouplers, and especially enjoy the delayed uncoupling feature, where a car(s) can be spotted anywhere beyond the location of the magnet.
A friend gave me one of those Kadee tools for installing knuckle springs, but I've always used a #11 blade in an X-Acto handle for installing knuckle springs: simply slip the tip of the blade into the tightly-wound coils near one end of the spring, then position the free end of the spring onto either one of the nubs meant to hold it. You can then manoeuvre the other end into place. I've lost very few springs over the years.
An often-used tip from the past for preventing knuckle springs from randomly popping out was to apply a very small dab of contact cement to one of the nubs, before installing the spring. Since the contact cement was not used in the proper manner (applied to both surfaces of the mating pieces, allowed to dry, then the pieces brought together) the cement simply acted as an interference which kept the spring in place. If the spring eventually became too weak to work properly, it was easy to remove and add a new one.
Wayne
What Kadee's do you recomend I buy not the ones I had? So this problem dose not occur again.
riogrande5761 The Kadee knuckle springs generally stay put but can pop out. I've always saved any extra's for replacements. You should be able to purchase a package of the springs separately.
The Kadee knuckle springs generally stay put but can pop out. I've always saved any extra's for replacements. You should be able to purchase a package of the springs separately.
There were always extra coil springs in the packages. The hardest thing is to seperate them when they get coiled together. I found out that two #11 blades worked the best to seperate the coils.
EDIT: yes i should have added above "Kadee Licenced Dealer or Kadee Authorized Dealer" after the words ''directly from them."
Lastspikemike I suspect these are knock offs. If so, then deep six all of them and buy proper Kadees from a reliable supplier. Whisker couplers are superior to the old #5 although the knuckles and springs are the same. One thought: Kadee supplies bright brass springs for regular couplers and blackened ones for scale head. #5 need the bright brass colour. Just btw, copper isn't springy. Kadee says their springs are phosphour bronze which makes sense as that is a springy alloy.
I suspect these are knock offs. If so, then deep six all of them and buy proper Kadees from a reliable supplier. Whisker couplers are superior to the old #5 although the knuckles and springs are the same.
One thought: Kadee supplies bright brass springs for regular couplers and blackened ones for scale head. #5 need the bright brass colour.
Just btw, copper isn't springy. Kadee says their springs are phosphour bronze which makes sense as that is a springy alloy.
It does make you wonder if they are 'knock offs''. I'd like to see the package they came in.
I did not say the spring was copper, I said copper color.
When installing springs, you can use a piece of thread looped through o loop of the spring to keep track of it should it fly away. You can waste a lot of time looking for lost springs. They're like single socks that get lost in the dryer. Keep some spares around.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
We're talking HO, right?
When you buy replacement knuckle springs, be sure to get the right ones. Springs for the 'standard' size #5 knuckles are different from spings for 'scale' head couplers in the #58 family. Tweezers or the Kadee coupler spring pick are the right tools for placing them.
Some days I have to work with them inside a giant freezer bag to corral the springs. Putting a tiny dot of clear parts cement on the end with the long nub helps to keep them in place. If you are losing a lot of them, you need to review your coupling and uncoupling techniques.
Lastspikemike tstage Lastspikemike I am puzzled by your description that the #5 springs "popped out". The OP is talking about the knuckle spring; not the copper center spring. "They all do that" but I'm surprised that "all" of them fell out. Kadee are the best at holding onto those springs. Certainly no other brand does any better.
tstage Lastspikemike I am puzzled by your description that the #5 springs "popped out". The OP is talking about the knuckle spring; not the copper center spring.
Lastspikemike I am puzzled by your description that the #5 springs "popped out".
The OP is talking about the knuckle spring; not the copper center spring.
"They all do that" but I'm surprised that "all" of them fell out. Kadee are the best at holding onto those springs. Certainly no other brand does any better.
The only way I can see that "they all fall out" would be...
1)wrong springs (too short).
2)soft spring.
3)wrong tension (heated the spring and lost tension).
4)no nubs on the coupler to hold the springs.
When you get the spring back in place, the spring should close the knuckle fully. hold the knuckle closed with your fingers and recheck that the coil spring has no free play forward or backward on the nubs. You can not go wrong with Kadee couplers.
There should be nothing wrong with the Kadee couplers. First look just to make sure there is a pointy nub on the ''head'' of the coupler and a non-pointy nub on the ''knuckle" where the spring will sit on. The ''Kadee spring pick #235'' is a good tool to have around if you have not found anything else to do the job by this time. (and extra knuckle springs, copper in color). Put the spring on the ''knuckle non-pointy nub first then on the ''Head'' pointy nub second. Some people have put a VERY LITTLE DAB of GOO glue at the spring and non-pointy nub at the "knuckle" end. I have never needed the GOO glue band-aid fix.
When I started this reply, nobody replied yet, guess I was a little slow with one eye at this time. Maybe I just took more time to read the OP's question and understood what he was asking. I am slow.
LastspikemikeI am puzzled by your description that the #5 springs "popped out".
The OP is talking about the knuckle spring; not the copper[-color] center spring.
Metrolink,
No matter where you buy them from or how you store them, the tiny springs on Kadee couplers will occassionally pop out. It happens. When it does it's very fixable though. What you need is a pair of good-quality, fine-tip tweezers - e.g. #3C or #5.
Using your tweezers:
It may take a little practice at first but you can re-install a spring in 15-30 seconds. What is also helpful in accomplishing this is 1) a good task lamp, and 2) a magnifier - e.g. Opti-visor - to aid in seeing what you are doing.
Some folks have had success in using a #11 X-acto blade to accomplish the same task but I find tweezers easier to use. The jaws of quality tweezers are ground flat so that align properly. A pair can cost $20-$30 (or more) but they are worth their weight in gold in my book and I use them all the time for various tasks.
So, the springs on those Kadees are going to come off from time-to-time. However, all hope is not lost if you have the right tool.
HTH,
Hi I had ordered on ebay last month,the Kadee 11 bulk 20 pair #5 couplers.since I have been using them most all of the springs have popped out.I emailed kadee about this issue.They said the cannot help me out since it,was from ebay.Has anyone here had the same issue with,these couplers? And what are the best couplers to buy in Ho? So I dont have the same problems.