Speaking as a very early member of these Forums (from back when we had actual "Forum Member" T shirts, and would gather at Galesburg RR Days, Trainfest in Milwaukee , and the Madison WI train show wearing our T shirts for group photos and chat) I offer some random and unconnected reactions.
It would be hard for some of you to believe the intensity of the forum posting back then; the whole idea was fresh and new and if you turned your back for a moment after posting something it might now be on page 3! A week or so I posted a modest little reply to something on the prototype information section and it stayed the second thing on the list for maybe an entire week. That would have been unimaginable just a few years ago.
Some very fine advanced modelers from those early days stopped posting not due to the trolls but because I think the caliber of conversation seemed increasingly beginner oriented. Bob Grech and Bob Boudreau come to mind. And ironically the seemingly built-in bias against reviving older threads meant that some rather tiresome beginner topics get brought up "new" repeatedly. THere seems to be no happy medium on that.
One other observation. One reason I used to visit the Forums every single day is because I was an early Model Railroader Video Plus subscriber and wanted to keep track of new videos before they got buried deeply by still newer videos. Coming to the Forums first was a convenient way to bop over to MRVP every day, maybe twice a day. Then MRVP lost its spine and became very tiresome, particularly the toy train stuff which had this seemingly deliberately infantile persona, and other videos which just did not interest me at all, although that might just be me in an increasingly "get off my lawn" geezer mentality. Plus no more Drew's Trackside Adventures, or Jim Hediger stories or projects, or MR Roundtable. I have now cut the cord and dropped MRVP, since as a MR subscriber (for the time being) I seem to have access to most of the videos I was watching anyway.
So without MRVP as an incentive I for one let many days go by in the row without visiting or, obviously, commenting, and it is surprising how little "behind" I've gotten when I do drop in!
The MR/MRVP/Forum problems (and that includes the pamphlet size of the magazines, the photo hosting issue which has made many great old postings useless, and the failure or inability to keep the "all magazine" index alive) are, in my opinion, Kalmbach corporate problems. They have some shareholders whose only interest is in dividend income for themselves, because they live on it, not the long range survival much less growth of the business. So that's where the money is going. That is their full right as shareholders, since that is the only legal reason corporations exist is to benefit them, but it does not bode well for the rest of us who are mere customers, nor for the hobby as a whole.
Dave Nelson
PS the "w**k" versus "work" element reminded me of the old Dobie Gillis TV show. Anyone else remember Maynard G Krebs, one of the all-time great character creations of television, ranking right up there with Eddie Haskell?
dknelsonThey have some shareholders whose only interest is in dividend income for themselves, because they live on it, not the long range survival much less growth of the business. So that's where the money is going. That is their full right as shareholders, since that is the only legal reason corporations exist is to benefit them, but it does not bode well for the rest of us who are mere customers, nor for the hobby as a whole.
Hi Dave,
I agree that the whole Model Railroader empire is under stress. I hope they find a solution that will allow them to survive, and just as importantly, keep the forums going. Personally, the forums have become an important part of my social life espescially during the Covid 19 crisis. If they go by the way of the Dodo bird, then I will be really disappointed.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
dknelson It would be hard for some of you to believe the intensity of the forum posting back then; the whole idea was fresh and new and if you turned your back for a moment after posting something it might now be on page 3! A week or so I posted a modest little reply to something on the prototype information section and it stayed the second thing on the list for maybe an entire week. That would have been unimaginable just a few years ago. Dave Nelson
I agree with you Dave.
It was a similar situation for myself on a Forum over here in the U.K.. Miss a day or two and I had to go back a few pages to find something a day old.
Times they are a'changing.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
As a long time member of the forum, 17 years and 21,000+ posts, I have followed this thread with interest. There seems to be a prevailing thought, at least among some, that the forum is doomed. Dunno. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But who knows? No one from Kalmbach has ever even hinted at it to my knowledge.
But I do see signs of neglect. The disintegration of the forum software is one such sign. The decreased level of moderation is another sign. The level and quality of forum participation is another sign.
Now, there is no denying that some very influential members of the forum have either passed away or moved on to other forums. Those losses hurt. The most recent loss that comes to mind is Randy Rinker, whose extensive electronics knowledge could be relied upon to solve any electronics problem. Once it becomes "the blind leading the blind", so to speak, forum problems become more of a guessing game than a solutions-based process of replies.
Historically, trolls and flame throwers have been significant in driving well intentioned members away from the forum. I recall one recent troll who started posting replies to each and every thread with replies filled with misinformation and photos of products as if they were his own to further mislead forum members. Fortunately, he was quickly banned. I do not detect any outright trolls on the forum today, but there are a few members whose posts resemble trolling, whether intended or not.
I will speak in the plural to avoid any appearance of trying to single out any one member. There are a few who seem to want to reply to every thread whether they know what they are talking about or not. There are a few who want to reply to every thread and who seem to know what they are talking about, but I for one have no idea what they are talking about. There are a few members who seem to want to reply to every thread without having anything to say, such as, I cannot be of any help, but someone will come along that can. There are few members who seem to relish making glib remarks for no apparent reason. How does any of this help to promote the hobby of model railroading?
Someone mentioned the revival of old threads. I readily admit that I for one detest this practice. How often have I started to read a thread by clicking on the most recent reply only to realize that the thread is from 2005 or 2008 or 2011. Why not just start a new thread and link to the old thread in the initial post? A lot of these revivals are to provide an answer or comment to a thread last posted over 10 years ago. I think by now that the OP has had his answer.
So, I don't know if the forum will be shut down tomorrow, sometime in 2021, or maybe never. But the forum today is a shadow of itself from yesterday.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainThere are a few members who seem to want to reply to every thread without having anything to say, such as, I cannot be of any help, but someone will come along that can.
I do this under two circumstances.
1) If it is a new poster, I always welcome them to the forum with a friendly hello.
2) If the question is about to go "under the fold" on the page, and has received no replies. I will bump it to to the top so hopefully the poster will get the help he is looking for.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 richhotrain There are a few members who seem to want to reply to every thread without having anything to say, such as, I cannot be of any help, but someone will come along that can. I do this under two circumstances. 1) If it is a new poster, I always welcome them to the forum with a friendly hello. 2) If the question is about to go "under the fold" on the page, and has received no replies. I will bump it to to the top so hopefully the poster will get the help he is looking for. -Kevin
richhotrain There are a few members who seem to want to reply to every thread without having anything to say, such as, I cannot be of any help, but someone will come along that can.
To read: There are a few members who seem to want to reply to every thread without having anything to say.
The old thread issue is an interesting double edged sword.
I agree, a thread totally untouched for years should likely be left that way.
On the other hand, the tractor forum I participate in has threads that have actually remained current for a decade or more, never dropping more than a page or two off the front page.
Sheldon
There is a gigantic fun loving hobby still here to enjoy. Hard to find the way to keep any comradery when so many aspects of life have lost all forms of decorum and courtesy. The jackals who contribute NOTHING drive good people away.
This happens on forums all over... especially the larger ones with larger audiences... The smaller private groups get rid of the posers and cleverly snide members as it is not hard to identify who brings something (other than large posting numbers) to a site and who do not. This is a phenomenon of the times.
I am a model maker by profession and I still have a passion for it all. If you see any posts from me, please feel free to ask any question, I will try and answer as best I can. I remember having so many questions as a kid but back then there was no tool like the internet. This should be a community of modelers all sharing a similar passion and simply enjoying the excellent examples of our work. Instead the anonymity of the internet creates a place where the jealous and the narrow minded, selfish and hurtful can thrive.
For many of the best contributors it is more of a task than it is worth to stay with a group when a few of the less than generous, more or less take over.
If I can ever help someone with a modeling question...please look me up I will help the best I can. I don't have all the answers but after 50 years of model building I know a lot of shortcuts, tricks and ways around a problem. I don't know how to fix this problem, but I can tell you it is not unique to this site.
Randy
https://www.facebook.com/Great-Divide-Lines-423511918192732/?modal=admin_todo_tour
Randy,
Thanks for your [earlier unedited] post. I agree with most of what you say.
I'm always saddened that folks here don't share more personal "how tos" on the forum, as this would really be beneficial to those interested in honing their modeling skills, or learning a new or different way of doing something. Wayne (doctorwayne) and Ed (gmpullman) are probably the exceptions and always willing to share their knowlege and experiences (and failures) for those who are interested in learning from their posts.
As you alluded to, however, the reality of it all is that forum users join and use a forum for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, sometimes their "contributions" trample on the toes of those who come here to learn or use it for altruistic purposes.
I have my own personal views of this forum and I find it less and less interesting to browse and the topics more and more complaint-oriented as the years go by. Perhaps that's just the sign of the times but it still doesn't make for interesting reading. And that's not to say that I am not personally at fault for my own less-than-stellar contributions on the forum from time-to-time.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageI find it less and less interesting to browse and the topics more and more complaint-oriented as the years go by. Perhaps that's just the sign of the times
Here Here !! We need a Grumpy Old Man Person Sub Forum. People can complain about costs, shipping, Ebay, lack of variety and stuff that breaks. Then I can easily miss all those threads.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
richhotrainThere are few members who seem to relish making glib remarks for no apparent reason.
Sorry. I guess I resemble that remark
1. However it could be done, I wish there was a way to answer the question of where a forum member has gone. As I said, my first thought is that something bad happened to their health. Second, I worry that someone (maybe me) said something that drove them away. I don't know what the answer to this is.
2. Quite a few comments say that the forum has changed, and that it was better years ago. Since I've only been on here for several years, I can't comment on that. But I can say that I consider this forum to be one of my favorite internet sites. I've gotten a lot of helpful layout information, and I have made internet friends that I wouldn't know without the forum.
I hope it continues.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
York1 ... 2. Quite a few comments say that the forum has changed, and that it was better years ago. Since I've only been on here for several years, I can't comment on that. But I can say that I consider this forum to be one of my favorite internet sites. I've gotten a lot of helpful layout information, and I have made internet friends that I wouldn't know without the forum. I hope it continues.
...
York1, when I joined 16 years ago+, the forum was in a sad state. It had a staffer doing all the monitoring/moderation, and it began to go downhill. Tom and some others volunteered to act as member/moderators, and with the powers granted to us at the time, we managed to change the culture more to what the majority of members AND OUR HOSTS wanted. Tom returned to volunteer a few years back, a task he shares mostly with Steve Otte who is on staff.
What I mostly wanted you to know is that a forum will ebb and flow in various ways over time. Members come and go, themes come and go, software for the forum changes, hobby currency comes and goes...nothing is static for very long. It flows.
I'm sure Tom and our hosts are grateful that they manage to keep a number of people happy with this place, and that you are among them.
selectorWhat I mostly wanted you to know is that a forum will ebb and flow in various ways over time.
Very true. Very rare are discussion forums that stick to core rules as well as this one does.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
So, I do respect ffolkes who do value their privacy, but of late, I’ve been perturbed by Forum members whose valued contributions, be they helpful/ interesting/ controversial/ other or a combination of categories, have, for the want of a better word, stopped!
Lastspikemike ATLANTIC CENTRAL The old thread issue is an interesting double edged sword. I agree, a thread totally untouched for years should likely be left that way. On the other hand, the tractor forum I participate in has threads that have actually remained current for a decade or more, never dropping more than a page or two off the front page. Sheldon I found old posts useful as I re-entered this hobby. If you google a model railroading topic that's what pops up most often: old cstrains threads. The double edged aspect of posting new items to old threads is the benefit of adding to an already discussed topic but at the risk of distracting regular posters. Much of this thread describes the latter phenomenon. My use of the forum supports the former.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The old thread issue is an interesting double edged sword. I agree, a thread totally untouched for years should likely be left that way. On the other hand, the tractor forum I participate in has threads that have actually remained current for a decade or more, never dropping more than a page or two off the front page. Sheldon
I found old posts useful as I re-entered this hobby.
If you google a model railroading topic that's what pops up most often: old cstrains threads.
The double edged aspect of posting new items to old threads is the benefit of adding to an already discussed topic but at the risk of distracting regular posters.
Much of this thread describes the latter phenomenon. My use of the forum supports the former.
Here is my beef about reviving old threads. Revival most often occurs by newbies, typically their first post. Speakin for myself, I often don't realize at first that the reply is to a 5 or 10 or even 15 year old dormant thread.
What I always advocate is to start a new thread and link the old thread in your initial reply. That way, none of the older, perhaps useful, information gets lost.
But, what most often happens is that the newbie reviving the old thread offers a comment that relates to a 5 or 10 or 15 year old thread. And that comment is quite often not substantive.
Great Divide For many of the best contributors it is more of a task than it is worth to stay with a group when a few of the less than generous, more or less take over.
Frequent posters should keep this in mind. It's not the number of posts but the quality of the posts that matters.
mlehman I've certainly reduced my contributions in recent years, but that's largely due to a fairly fully realized layout where there isn't that much to document from week to week. I've been trying to do a bit more recntly and as the winds cool towards the last part of the year I'm hoping to be more productive. I'm a member of a couple of other forums, but haven't posted to them in years. While there are some "personalities" here, they are mostly bearable and not nearly so thick as in other places. I don't see any net in worrying over the future of the forum, it's more important to do what I can to help ensure it's future, even if it's an admittedly weak effort at times. Anyone who'd like more of what I do can PM me for Zoom details of a every Wednesday night at 6-8pm (Central time) Train Talk. It's a great little group that welcomes all, even those who hate the word w**k. We talk about models, the prototype, and just a little about why we may be looking particualrly old this week. Otherwise, you can find me hanging around here and, with a little better effort, contributing more.
I've certainly reduced my contributions in recent years, but that's largely due to a fairly fully realized layout where there isn't that much to document from week to week. I've been trying to do a bit more recntly and as the winds cool towards the last part of the year I'm hoping to be more productive.
I'm a member of a couple of other forums, but haven't posted to them in years. While there are some "personalities" here, they are mostly bearable and not nearly so thick as in other places.
I don't see any net in worrying over the future of the forum, it's more important to do what I can to help ensure it's future, even if it's an admittedly weak effort at times.
Anyone who'd like more of what I do can PM me for Zoom details of a every Wednesday night at 6-8pm (Central time) Train Talk. It's a great little group that welcomes all, even those who hate the word w**k. We talk about models, the prototype, and just a little about why we may be looking particualrly old this week.
Otherwise, you can find me hanging around here and, with a little better effort, contributing more.
Simon
snjroy there is nothing wrong with repetition.
There is when it becomes preaching.
richhotrainHere is my beef about reviving old threads. Revival most often occurs by newbies, typically their first post.
It seems that whenever a newbie revives an old thread as their first post, they are never heard from again.
richhotrainBut, this one surprised me because I didn't think that this thread had gone off topic. So, I went back to see what the OP originally asked, and to my surprise the OP was you. in your initial post, you asked:
Well, it certainly didn’t take long for this to go off topic!!! And as a result, I’ve struggled how to reply, so after several rewrites, here goes… richhotrain But, this one surprised me because I didn't think that this thread had gone off topic. So, I went back to see what the OP originally asked, and to my surprise the OP was you. in your initial post, you asked: Rich, though I’m cut to the quick over your surprise that I was the Actual OP , I’ll take some responsibility for the apparent confusion my original post has engendered though the actual question was right at the bottom!! “So, I guess the question I’m asking is, do you have (even if it is for the far distant future) a notification system in place? That is if you even care.” Yes, Sheldon, “The old thread issue is an interesting double edged sword.”. To quote Dave Nelson “…the photo hosting issue which has made many great old postings useless…”, though to be fair the other forum who tolerates my presence had a software(?) hiccup several years ago, which corrupted all the photo files. I don’t object to a thread to be revived, (a tip to Rich, take a look at the start date before diving in with a reply!! ), as long as the thread wasn’t of the whining variety. There is a heck of a lot great information in the archives, though, and it’s my pet peeve, the Forums “search function” isn’t worth a cup of cold sick!!
richhotrain But, this one surprised me because I didn't think that this thread had gone off topic. So, I went back to see what the OP originally asked, and to my surprise the OP was you. in your initial post, you asked:
To those missing who have dropped in, thanks for allaying others concerns. xboxtravis7, yes, I would not be asking questions pertaining to OO9 here, even though it’s a scale/gauge that I’ve been collecting bits for, however as evidenced by the number of views of NorthBritDavid’s Leeds Sovereign Street & Clarence Dock - a UK based layout, there appears to be an appetite for something different. Geared Steam, it’s good to see that the rebuild of J. Neils Shay is still progressing, even though at a slow pace. Cheers, the Bear.
Somehow I get a mention on the 'Missing Forum Members' thread even though I haven't left. Only Bear could do that.
So, I guess the question I’m asking is, do you have (even if it is for the far distant future) a notification system in place? That is if you even care.
are you suggesting this forum software ping (email) members who haven't responded in a while (e.g. 6 months) and if there's no response, indicate on their profile that the member is no longer responsive?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregcare you suggesting this forum software ping (email) members who haven't responded in a while (e.g. 6 months) and if there's no response, indicate on their profile that the member is no longer responsive?
Well, to answer your question, I don't know anybody in my circle of MR friends who is a member of this forum. And I don't have any emails from forum members. However, if something predictable was to happen, I would probably send a PM to a few folks here who would recognize my name.