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Some techniques don't work in N-scale

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:17 PM

Or, conversely, firestops

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:17 PM

Don't forget balloon framing. 

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Posted by hornblower on Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:00 PM

As the son of a retired architect and having framed several 1:1 structures myself, my biggest beef with nail holes (other than being way too large) is that they are rather frequently placed in the wrong locations along the walls.  Most people just start at one corner of the building and place a line of nail holes every 16 inches without regard to door and window locations.  Studs are required either side of all doors and windows whether they match a regular 16 inch spacing or not.  If you really need to add nail holes to your models, start by placing vertical lines of nail holes just outside every door and window first.  Then work away from the doors and windows at 16 inches on center (don't forget to fit in studs above the doors and windows and below the windows).  Will you have some lines of nail holes separated less than 16 inches apart?  Yes, but that's quite prototypical.  Just make sure that no lines of nail holes are separated more than 16 inches or you won't meet code.  Speaking of code, buildings older than about 1940 often used stud spacing of 24 inches on center.

Hornblower

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, June 24, 2021 9:55 AM

rrebell

I can see a nail hole at 20' plus, I can see the oversized HO ones at 4' about a little over 1/32" inch.

 
Yeah, if someone has created 1/32" nail holes (.0312") they'd be the equivalent of just slightly less than a 3" diameter in HO scale.
 
Wayne
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Posted by selector on Thursday, June 24, 2021 3:26 AM

HO nail holes of real world 1/32" = 2" in 1:1.  What nails leave a hole 2" in diameter?

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 6:17 PM

I can see a nail hole at 20' plus, I can see the oversized HO ones at 4' about a little over 1/32" inch.

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 4:50 PM

Resolution is a function of the aperture of the viewing/imaging device, whether eye or camera.  Definition is a function of the relative size AND distance of the object in question and relates to how small a detail one can perceive either using the Mk I eyeball or an image held at a certain distance (with varying resolution).

From about two feet away, an HO scale nail hole, they averaging something like 0.15 inch in diameter in scale, would be only in the order of 1/500th of an inch across.  Nobody will see it at one foot let alone two.  Now scale down to N, and see if it's any clearer. Mischief 

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 12:28 PM

Only way to do nailholes is one by one. Ponce wheels can never hit all the right spots and are too evenly spaced. Nailholes can really make a difference in a forground wood building HO and larger if the paint is right. When I was doing contest models I used the tip of a needle in a  pin vice and even then you had to make sure you used the right size needle. Almost went into On30 because of the detail you can get like individual leaves on the ground.

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Posted by York1 on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 12:14 PM

One thing I've tried in N Scale, but not with good results, was finishing interior details in buildings.

It was a challenge, which I actually enjoyed, but after lots of work, the details are all but invisible unless you get less than six inches from the building.

Someone on this forum suggested to me a company that makes printed windows with interior scenes on them, and that allow backlighting.  I haven't bought any yet, but the photos look interesting.

York1 John       

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 11:34 AM

Maurice

Has anyone else noticed that some techniques for weathering, modeling or whatever, are fine for other scales don't work for N-scale and many articles ingnore that fact? The most obvious example to me is nail holes. Using a pin wheel to put nail holes in an O-scale structure can be ultra realistic, but in  N-scale is ridiculous. 

In my opinion most nail hole details are pretty ridiculous in HO as well.  Nail hole detail has become seemingly a near requirement in structure model contests in the last decade or so yet when I look at my rather estensive collection of (prototype) structure photographs, seeing nail holes (or more properly, small rusty dots where the nailhead has rusted) are a great great rarity give the distance most photographs are taken from.

So you find yourself emulating an exaggeration.

Having said that, in my weathering clinics I have taken to including N scale models to pass around the room (I demonstrate "live" using Lionel junkers just so people in the back row can see what I'm talking about, but pass around HO and now N models so things can be examinded more closely) because I got tired of N scalers complaining that my clinic methods were of no value to people in their scale.  

Dave Nelson

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 11:29 AM

Overmod
Maurice The most obvious example to me is nail holes.

An even better example is rivets. Relatively easy in HO... my hat is off to anyone who can get good results in N. (In fact my hat is off to anyone who can see the detail outside of photo enlargement!)

In the '50s, Varney offered us hoppers with rivets the size of HO scale cannonballs, and we were pretty impressed by those details...(for all the cousin weak-eyes out there, click on the photos for an enlarged view)

I have two of those hoppers and keep them for their sentimental value.  If I were so inclined, I could scrape off those details and replace them using Archer's rivet decals.
Here's an Accurail hopper, for comparison....

...and sometimes, you can get away with just faking some details, like using .0125" phosphor-bronze wire to represent nbws for holding safety appliances in place...

I used the very fine tips on a set of draughting dividers to do nail hole/heads on this derelict grain elevator, but they're still too big to be in-scale for HO...

Wayne

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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 8:59 AM

I own O scale, HO scale and HOn30 scale engines, and I agree, the techniques will differ. The bigger the scale, the higher the resolution. So the level of detail changes, as well as the materials. The good news about N scale (and HOn30) is that our aging eyes can't really zoom on the details that well, so it's a bit more foregiving. I can hardly see the rivets on my HOn30 engines. Weathering is pretty much a question of washes and light drybrushing. I would not try to airbrush a weathering job on these tiny things...

Simon 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 7:54 AM

Maurice
The most obvious example to me is nail holes.

An even better example is rivets.  Relatively easy in HO... my hat is off to anyone who can get good results in N.  (In fact my hat is off to anyone who can see the detail outside of photo enlargement!)

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 3:46 AM

When I was in N scale I had a hard time weathering with chalks.

They would cover too much of the car instantly.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Some techniques don't work in N-scale
Posted by Maurice on Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:12 PM

Has anyone else noticed that some techniques for weathering, modeling or whatever, are fine for other scales don't work for N-scale and many articles ingnore that fact? The most obvious example to me is nail holes. Using a pin wheel to put nail holes in an O-scale structure can be ultra realistic, but in  N-scale is ridiculous.

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