REMEMBER:... Just becaus the traian derails over here does not mean that the wheel did not leave the track elsewhere.
You can look at spot A until the cows come home, but if will nto help you if the wheels were running improperly since point B.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Lakeshore Sub Not to take this too far off subject. JPD, I would love to see the consist of your Chippewa. i'm running a 40's-50's version of the Chippewa on my layout and would like to see which cars you have in your consist? Can you provide a picture? Thanks, Scott Sonntag
Not to take this too far off subject. JPD, I would love to see the consist of your Chippewa. i'm running a 40's-50's version of the Chippewa on my layout and would like to see which cars you have in your consist?
All the passenger cars are Walther's heavyweight cars. I also have several Walther's sleeper cars which I can add to the train. If I did so, then I would but them between the parlor car and the observation car.
I hope this helps. If you need more information, then email me at dulongj@habitant.org and I can share particulars about the passenger cars.
I just received the pair of replacement trucks in the mail today. So as not to derail the OP's thread any further, I started a new thread.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/288049.aspx
Rich
Alton Junction
A while back I undertook a project to add missing springs to several Kadee #5 couplers. I put a card table and chair in the foyer for this purpose. The foyer floor is hardwood, increasing my chances of finding lost springs. It worked and the project was successful.
Note the implicit point in the link provided that the 637 springs aren't for the 513 and 555 roller-bearing trucks. You'd want item 638 for that.
At 18 springs for under $3 these are a reasonable value considering how likely it's becoming for the self-centering truck to 'unravel'.
Just do all the work in the equivalent of a glovebox if you can. We've had threads on the best tools and techniques to work with these tiny springs... but keeping the inevitable slip from becoming a mystery hunt with raking light and strong magnets is a great advantage.
Why am I just learning about all of this stuff so late in life?
Overmod Extended moral of this tale: even when removing and replacing certain Kadee trucks as units -- work inside something like a gallon-size Baggie to keep unexpected rapid disassembly from achieving local escape velocity.
Extended moral of this tale: even when removing and replacing certain Kadee trucks as units -- work inside something like a gallon-size Baggie to keep unexpected rapid disassembly from achieving local escape velocity.
So, I plead guilty, but in my defense I had no idea that the truck had two small springs in the sideframe. I was simply trying to remove the wheelsets from the trucks to clean the wheels.
Nuts, I couldn't find the missing spring on the basement floor, and I was wrong about extra springs being in that little clear capsule.
There are four springs in the capsule, but none that fit into that truck sideframe. The springs in the capsule are two of the bright copper color coupler springs, and the other two springs are simply darkened versions of the coupler springs. I mistakenly thought that those two darkened springs were extra sideframe springs.
So, I will just wait for the new trucks to arrive from Kadee.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Lastspikemike Your truck is not broken. It can be re-assembled. It is just fiddly to do. Based upon Sheldon's comments in an earlier reply, I am now wondering if I have to remove that remaining spring before reassembling the sideframe and then put both springs back on the sideframe with that Kadee special spring holder. I will look into that in the morning. If that works, I could have spared myself from ordering the #562 trucks, but I did so before this all came up on this thread. Rich Yes, remove the spring.
richhotrain Lastspikemike Your truck is not broken. It can be re-assembled. It is just fiddly to do. Based upon Sheldon's comments in an earlier reply, I am now wondering if I have to remove that remaining spring before reassembling the sideframe and then put both springs back on the sideframe with that Kadee special spring holder. I will look into that in the morning. If that works, I could have spared myself from ordering the #562 trucks, but I did so before this all came up on this thread. Rich
Lastspikemike Your truck is not broken. It can be re-assembled. It is just fiddly to do.
Your truck is not broken. It can be re-assembled. It is just fiddly to do.
Based upon Sheldon's comments in an earlier reply, I am now wondering if I have to remove that remaining spring before reassembling the sideframe and then put both springs back on the sideframe with that Kadee special spring holder.
I will look into that in the morning. If that works, I could have spared myself from ordering the #562 trucks, but I did so before this all came up on this thread.
Yes, remove the spring.
Lastspikemike Nope, I'm just not remembering correctly. The instructions don't explain what the clips are for. I found my caboose trucks.
Nope, I'm just not remembering correctly. The instructions don't explain what the clips are for. I found my caboose trucks.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The bolster will only slide to the top of the opening in the sideframe in one "spot" like a sliding track. Once it is in the right spot, you reinstall the springs much the same way you replace a Kadee coupler knuckle spring.
The bolster will only slide to the top of the opening in the sideframe in one "spot" like a sliding track.
Once it is in the right spot, you reinstall the springs much the same way you replace a Kadee coupler knuckle spring.
Ed, thanks for the info.
Interestingly I have never owned a KATO product. Their limited offeringsin HO have never fit my needs.
Sheldon
richhotrain I will have to take a closer look at the types of trucks on the KATO cars.
Kato designs and manufactures their own line of trucks:
Kato_Barber-RB by Edmund, on Flickr
The bolster is a separate piece from the sideframes and there is a very slight pitch to provide just enough "equalization" .
Kato_Barber by Edmund, on Flickr
These I have on hand were all the rage in the late '90s for their rotating end cap bearings, maybe the first to offer this detail but they have another ASF, A-3, plain bearing style, too, no where what you would consider a large choice.
In the days when I was "tuning up" old Roundhouse and BlueBox cars, Kato trucks were a staple along with some of the Life-Like Proto ones. The Kato trucks had exceptionally good rolling and tracking abilities.
Regards, Ed
richhotrain I do have three Kadee covered hoppers, and they are the only Kadee freight cars on my roster. Maybe I should leave well enough alone, but once I replace the current trucks with the #562s on the one covered hopper, maybe I will replace the trucks on the other two Kadee covered hoppers. I will see how the replacement trucks perform. Meanwhile, I also have those nine KATO covered hoppers. I will have to take a closer look at the types of trucks on the KATO cars. The rest of my freight car roster is all Athearn, Walthers and Atlas. I doubt if any of those cars have sprung trucks. Rich
I do have three Kadee covered hoppers, and they are the only Kadee freight cars on my roster. Maybe I should leave well enough alone, but once I replace the current trucks with the #562s on the one covered hopper, maybe I will replace the trucks on the other two Kadee covered hoppers. I will see how the replacement trucks perform.
Meanwhile, I also have those nine KATO covered hoppers. I will have to take a closer look at the types of trucks on the KATO cars.
The rest of my freight car roster is all Athearn, Walthers and Atlas. I doubt if any of those cars have sprung trucks.
Pretty sure the KATO stuff has rigid trucks just like Athearn and the rest.
I think Kadee is the only manufacturer still installing sprung trucks on rolling stock.
And only a few other brands are making sprung trucks. Walthers still lists a few, the EB product is still out there, Precision Scale Company has a nice selection of sprung trucks, including passenger trucks, many of which are kits, priced between $20 and $40 a pair......
For me it is most important on freight cars because of long trains.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL That is a sprung truck. Back when you bought those hoppers, that was all they made and that's what came on the car. They still make that truck, but now their rolling stock is coming with the new HGC trucks. The HGC truck has a split bolster to provide equalization by letting the truck flex, but it does not have active springs. The old truck let the sideframes flex on the solid bolster by letting the sideframes move separately at the springs. Same effect, different approach. One wheel can be "up" while its axle mate on the other side is "down" and the other axle can be opposite at the same time. So when sat on the track, it flexes until all the wheels are on the rail. Just like the suspension on your car conforming to uneven ground. Sheldon ahh, OK, that all makes perfect sense. I wonder if the flexing is why I cannot properly reseat the loose sideframe? Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL That is a sprung truck. Back when you bought those hoppers, that was all they made and that's what came on the car. They still make that truck, but now their rolling stock is coming with the new HGC trucks. The HGC truck has a split bolster to provide equalization by letting the truck flex, but it does not have active springs. The old truck let the sideframes flex on the solid bolster by letting the sideframes move separately at the springs. Same effect, different approach. One wheel can be "up" while its axle mate on the other side is "down" and the other axle can be opposite at the same time. So when sat on the track, it flexes until all the wheels are on the rail. Just like the suspension on your car conforming to uneven ground. Sheldon
That is a sprung truck. Back when you bought those hoppers, that was all they made and that's what came on the car.
They still make that truck, but now their rolling stock is coming with the new HGC trucks.
The HGC truck has a split bolster to provide equalization by letting the truck flex, but it does not have active springs.
The old truck let the sideframes flex on the solid bolster by letting the sideframes move separately at the springs.
Same effect, different approach.
One wheel can be "up" while its axle mate on the other side is "down" and the other axle can be opposite at the same time. So when sat on the track, it flexes until all the wheels are on the rail.
Just like the suspension on your car conforming to uneven ground.
ahh, OK, that all makes perfect sense. I wonder if the flexing is why I cannot properly reseat the loose sideframe?
Hard to answer that without being there. The bolster will only slide to the top of the opening in the sideframe in one "spot" like a sliding track.
richhotrain Lastspikemike If you could post a photo of the truck in pieces maybe someone can compare that to a not broken Kadee and at least tell you if yours is broken or not. OK, I took some photos even though I suck at photography, so let's see how this turns out. The first photo shows the disassemble truck along with the two clips and the capsule holding extra springs. I did lose the one spring during the "explosion", although with enough crawling around on the basement floor I can probably find it. By the way, the screw does have a type of fitting on it that sits perpendicular to the bolster, as someone previously mentioned. The second photo shows the truck with the missing spring and the loose sideframe. The third photo shows the reassembled sideframe although it is loosey goosey, if you will, and is not securely in place like the other sideframe. The fourth photo shows the truck turned upside down. As you can see, there is no split bolster. Does this help at all? Rich
Lastspikemike If you could post a photo of the truck in pieces maybe someone can compare that to a not broken Kadee and at least tell you if yours is broken or not.
If you could post a photo of the truck in pieces maybe someone can compare that to a not broken Kadee and at least tell you if yours is broken or not.
OK, I took some photos even though I suck at photography, so let's see how this turns out.
The first photo shows the disassemble truck along with the two clips and the capsule holding extra springs. I did lose the one spring during the "explosion", although with enough crawling around on the basement floor I can probably find it. By the way, the screw does have a type of fitting on it that sits perpendicular to the bolster, as someone previously mentioned.
The second photo shows the truck with the missing spring and the loose sideframe.
The third photo shows the reassembled sideframe although it is loosey goosey, if you will, and is not securely in place like the other sideframe.
The fourth photo shows the truck turned upside down. As you can see, there is no split bolster.
Does this help at all?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I will help you, it will be fine. Now I know what's going on. Your older hoppers have sprung trucks, newer ones from KADEE have HGC trucks, but they are interchangeable and will work fine. Got to go now, but will send you an Email later. Sheldon
I will help you, it will be fine. Now I know what's going on. Your older hoppers have sprung trucks, newer ones from KADEE have HGC trucks, but they are interchangeable and will work fine.
Got to go now, but will send you an Email later.
gmpullman richhotrain I am now dreading the arrival of the new trucks from Kadee. Assembly sounds like a nightmare. The trucks will be fully assembled and the #562 is not actually sprung, it simply has springs molded into the sideframes to look like springs. No need to dread the arrival. They will have the mounting screw held in place by a thin plastic tab that is almost like a hair pin (bobby pin?) This tab or clip simply holds the screw and the centering insert in place during shipping AND it is a handy assembly aid. When you turn the truck over for installing the screw it helps retain that centering piece and when the screw is driven far enough into the car body you simple pull off the split plastic "clip" and remove it. It takes longer to describe than to actually do it. This is a fun hobby, nothing to dread or have assembly nightmares over. https://www.kadee.com/documents/truck_and_wheel.pdf When your package arrives it should look something like this: Kadee_pkg-3 by Edmund, on Flickr And the trucks will be resting on a vacuum-formed cradle: Kadee_pkg-2 by Edmund, on Flickr The screw-retainer-clip thing will be gripping the threads of the mounting screw. Kadee_pkg-1 by Edmund, on Flickr Nothing to fear. IF you take the clip off prematurely, the screw may fall out along with the small plastic thimble with the centering bosses. Still nothing to worry about nor have nightmares. Kadee_pkg by Edmund, on Flickr However, at this point the two halves of the bolster can easily be separated if you try to hold the truck and do not carefully support the bolster with downward finger pressure. The two halves interlock and by lifting in the center causes them to "unlock" whereby the axles will fall out and the brake beam molding will become unclipped. This is why it is suggested, but not mandatory, to keep that thin clip in place until the mounting screw is almost seated. Then with a slight tug (forceps or small needle-nose pliers help here) carefully remove the clip and continue to snug the screw. Before final tightening be sure the little centering bosses are at 90° to the center sill or parallel with the body bolster. Cheers, Ed
richhotrain I am now dreading the arrival of the new trucks from Kadee. Assembly sounds like a nightmare.
The trucks will be fully assembled and the #562 is not actually sprung, it simply has springs molded into the sideframes to look like springs. No need to dread the arrival.
They will have the mounting screw held in place by a thin plastic tab that is almost like a hair pin (bobby pin?) This tab or clip simply holds the screw and the centering insert in place during shipping AND it is a handy assembly aid.
When you turn the truck over for installing the screw it helps retain that centering piece and when the screw is driven far enough into the car body you simple pull off the split plastic "clip" and remove it.
It takes longer to describe than to actually do it. This is a fun hobby, nothing to dread or have assembly nightmares over.
https://www.kadee.com/documents/truck_and_wheel.pdf
When your package arrives it should look something like this:
Kadee_pkg-3 by Edmund, on Flickr
And the trucks will be resting on a vacuum-formed cradle:
Kadee_pkg-2 by Edmund, on Flickr
The screw-retainer-clip thing will be gripping the threads of the mounting screw.
Kadee_pkg-1 by Edmund, on Flickr
Nothing to fear. IF you take the clip off prematurely, the screw may fall out along with the small plastic thimble with the centering bosses. Still nothing to worry about nor have nightmares.
Kadee_pkg by Edmund, on Flickr
However, at this point the two halves of the bolster can easily be separated if you try to hold the truck and do not carefully support the bolster with downward finger pressure. The two halves interlock and by lifting in the center causes them to "unlock" whereby the axles will fall out and the brake beam molding will become unclipped.
This is why it is suggested, but not mandatory, to keep that thin clip in place until the mounting screw is almost seated. Then with a slight tug (forceps or small needle-nose pliers help here) carefully remove the clip and continue to snug the screw. Before final tightening be sure the little centering bosses are at 90° to the center sill or parallel with the body bolster.
Cheers, Ed
Geez, I just got to thinking that I have totally derailed the OP's thread with my question midway down page 2 about the difference between equalized trucks and sprung trucks.
So sorry!
Water Level Route I must be missing something. I don't see reference anywhere to the clips in the instructions. Personally, I could see where someone could make the assumption they are there simply to hold the screws in place and show the fact that screws are included. I hope seeing things from a different perspective doesn't make me a .
I must be missing something. I don't see reference anywhere to the clips in the instructions. Personally, I could see where someone could make the assumption they are there simply to hold the screws in place and show the fact that screws are included. I hope seeing things from a different perspective doesn't make me a .
gmpullman Lastspikemike I'm pretty sure the packaging from Kadee tells you how to use the clips although it is fairly obvious. https://www.kadee.com/documents/562.pdf Ed
Lastspikemike I'm pretty sure the packaging from Kadee tells you how to use the clips although it is fairly obvious.
https://www.kadee.com/documents/562.pdf
Ed
Mike
LastspikemikeI'm pretty sure the packaging from Kadee tells you how to use the clips although it is fairly obvious.
richhotrain I am beginning to wonder what I got myself into with these trucks. When I bought my string of covered hoppers back in 2005 or 2006, I started out with three 3-car sets from KATO. Each 3-car set was a different road name and each hopper had a different number. I wanted 12 covered hoppers in total, but that was all that KATO offered, so I picked up three covered hoppers in a different road name from Kadee. Back then, I could care less whether trucks were sprung and/or self-centering. So when one of the Kadee covered hoppers started derailing recently, I removed it from the layout to check out the problem. In hindhight, when I realized that the wheelsets had a build-up of crud on the wheels, I should have left the truck on the car and cleaned the wheels that way instead of removing the trucks to get at the wheels. When the truck assembly broke apart and I couldn't get it securely back together, I called Kadee and spoke to Sam The Answer Man who said that the replacement truck was #562, a self-centering sprung truck. But, now that I look at photos of the #562, that is not the same truck that is on the three Kadee covered hoppers, probably because those covered hoppers are now 15 or 16 years old. The current trucks are sprung, but they are definitely one piece, not two piece, bolsters. I appreciate all of the advice, but I still do not fully understand the use of the "clip". I also cannot figure out why I cannot re-assemble the current truck, but it simply won't stay together, so something must be broke. I am now dreading the arrival of the new trucks from Kadee. Assembly sounds like a nightmare. Rich
I am beginning to wonder what I got myself into with these trucks.
When I bought my string of covered hoppers back in 2005 or 2006, I started out with three 3-car sets from KATO. Each 3-car set was a different road name and each hopper had a different number. I wanted 12 covered hoppers in total, but that was all that KATO offered, so I picked up three covered hoppers in a different road name from Kadee.
Back then, I could care less whether trucks were sprung and/or self-centering. So when one of the Kadee covered hoppers started derailing recently, I removed it from the layout to check out the problem. In hindhight, when I realized that the wheelsets had a build-up of crud on the wheels, I should have left the truck on the car and cleaned the wheels that way instead of removing the trucks to get at the wheels.
When the truck assembly broke apart and I couldn't get it securely back together, I called Kadee and spoke to Sam The Answer Man who said that the replacement truck was #562, a self-centering sprung truck. But, now that I look at photos of the #562, that is not the same truck that is on the three Kadee covered hoppers, probably because those covered hoppers are now 15 or 16 years old. The current trucks are sprung, but they are definitely one piece, not two piece, bolsters.
I appreciate all of the advice, but I still do not fully understand the use of the "clip". I also cannot figure out why I cannot re-assemble the current truck, but it simply won't stay together, so something must be broke. I am now dreading the arrival of the new trucks from Kadee. Assembly sounds like a nightmare.