What follows is nothing more than a rant about the brake cylinders on the Proto PA trucks.
I have four Proto 2000 locomotives, two PA and two PB. Each loco has two trucks, and each truck has two sideframes, left and right, with two brake cylinders on each sidefram. So, there is a total of 8 dynamic brake parts on each locomotive.
I have attached a couple of photos. The first photo shows the truck with both brake cylinders in place. The second photo shows the truck with one brake cylinder missing.
Those brake cylinders are very large and pronounced, sticking out from the sideframes. From the factory, the brake cylinders are press fit into the sideframes, not glued. If you are not extremely careful when positioning the trucks on the rails, it is easy to knock off those cylinders, and there are very tiny pegs on the brake cylinders on which glue can be applied.
So, you have to grab the trucks with your fingers in the center of the trucks between the brake cylinders. I have lost count of how many brake cylinders have fallen off those trucks, mostly on the PA units.
Unfortunately, I have lost a couple which are capable of bouncing off the basement concrete floor 4 to 6 feet or more. I have even gone so far as to buy a pair of trucks on eBay to scavenge a total of 8 brake cylinders. I couldn't find any PA trucks, but the Proto 2000 Erie-Built trucks have the same brake cylinders.
ahh, I feel much better now. Rant over.
Rich
Alton Junction
A guy can't catch a brake, huh?
Couldn't resist, Rich, but I sure do identify. I've lost many a teeny part to the mysterious ether of the workshop floor, never to be seen again even after searching on hands and knees with a magnifier and flashlight. -Rob
richhotrain...So, there is a total of 8 dynamic brake parts on each locomotive....
Sorry Rich, but those are simply castings representing air-operated brake cylinders. If the PAs had dynamic brakes, they would be basically resistor banks inside the locomotive, with fans, likely on the roof, to dissipate the heat.
If the cylinders are so fragile, simply remove them from the locomotive, cut off the mounting pins, and drill the spot from where the pins were removed to accept piano wire of a diameter similar to (or slightly larger) than the plastic ones. Use ca to secure the wire in the cylinders, and into the loco's sideframes, too.
There's a chance that the sideframes may be cast in engineering plastic - if so, use a ca designed for use with such plastic... LePage offers a"super glue for all plastics". It consists of a tube of ca, and a marker-like applicator to "prep" the plastic. The "prep" will outlast the ca that's included, but will work with any ordinary ca that you might have on-hand.
Wayne
doctorwayne richhotrain ...So, there is a total of 8 dynamic brake parts on each locomotive.... Sorry Rich, but those are simply castings representing air-operated brake cylinders. If the PAs had dynamic brakes, they would be basically resistor banks inside the locomotive, with fans, likely on the roof, to dissipate the heat.
richhotrain ...So, there is a total of 8 dynamic brake parts on each locomotive....
I like your suggestion about using piano wire in place of the plastic pins. I need to take a closer look at that.
Mister Mikado A guy can't catch a brake, huh? Couldn't resist, Rich, but I sure do identify. I've lost many a teeny part to the mysterious ether of the workshop floor, never to be seen again even after searching on hands and knees with a magnifier and flashlight. -Rob
A trick that seems to help is to lay the flashlight on the floor - even a small part lit side on like that will cast a fairly large shadow. But so will crumbs...
Stewart F units have the same problem. The cylinders and the trucks are all slippery engineering plastic, so it's not even easy to glue the parts in place.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker Stewart F units have the same problem. The cylinders and the trucks are all slippery engineering plastic, so it's not even easy to glue the parts in place.
Randy, that Lepage ca for engineering plastic does work as advertised, and there are similar products from others, including Loctite, who , I think, first developed it.
I'll have to find some of that. Regular CA doesn't work very well. I was using white glue - it doesn't actually adhere but it more or less jams the mounting stem in the hole so it won't fall out and if you care careful not to dislodge it, the cylinders stay put. Plus it dries clear so you don't know it's there.
Rich, Pretty sure I have a spare, let me know if you need it.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Rich, Pretty sure I have a spare, let me know if you need it. Sheldon
Rich you made me check all my erie built cylinders. They were all there and solidly attached, I couldnt pull them off. Maybe the PAs were made different, or you got a bad run. Good luck with the repair.
Mister Mikado Rich you made me check all my erie built cylinders. They were all there and solidly attached, I couldnt pull them off. Maybe the PAs were made different, or you got a bad run. Good luck with the repair.
doctorwayne There's a chance that the sideframes may be cast in engineering plastic - if so, use a ca designed for use with such plastic... LePage offers a"super glue for all plastics". It consists of a tube of ca, and a marker-like applicator to "prep" the plastic. The "prep" will outlast the ca that's included, but will work with any ordinary ca that you might have on-hand.
Stay tuned.
I haven't needed it all that much, but I did find that it worked as advertised.
I was working on an Athearn Genesis GP9 last week. Had two detail parts fall off, and for the life of me the locomotive doesn't look any different than when I started. :)
richhotrainThanks for the correction, Wayne. I do appreciate it. I wasn't at all sure what that part was called so I just threw the term "dynamic brake cylinder" out there to see if it would stick. So, is the correct term simply "brake cylinders"?
Correct, those are brake cylinders.
Aaron
Autonerd I was working on an Athearn Genesis GP9 last week. Had two detail parts fall off, and for the life of me the locomotive doesn't look any different than when I started. :)
Take a look at the first photo with a missing brake cylinder. Then, look at the second photo where both brake cylinders are in place.
richhotrain doctorwayne There's a chance that the sideframes may be cast in engineering plastic - if so, use a ca designed for use with such plastic... LePage offers a"super glue for all plastics". It consists of a tube of ca, and a marker-like applicator to "prep" the plastic. The "prep" will outlast the ca that's included, but will work with any ordinary ca that you might have on-hand. Wayne, I bought LePage Super Glue along with the marker. I just glued on the first two of four brake cylinders. I will let them cure 12 hours, per instructions. If it holds, I will do the other two brake cylinders. Stay tuned. Rich
Wayne, I bought LePage Super Glue along with the marker. I just glued on the first two of four brake cylinders. I will let them cure 12 hours, per instructions. If it holds, I will do the other two brake cylinders.
Time will tell how well the bond holds. Meanwhile, I need to be extremely careful how I grip the trucks if they need to be rerailed for any reason.
Thanks for that recommendation, Wayne.
Autonerd richhotrain Thanks for the correction, Wayne. I do appreciate it. I wasn't at all sure what that part was called so I just threw the term "dynamic brake cylinder" out there to see if it would stick. So, is the correct term simply "brake cylinders Correct, those are brake cylinders...
richhotrain Thanks for the correction, Wayne. I do appreciate it. I wasn't at all sure what that part was called so I just threw the term "dynamic brake cylinder" out there to see if it would stick. So, is the correct term simply "brake cylinders
Correct, those are brake cylinders...
Dynamic braking doesn't use cylinders, or a linkage. It uses the electrical traction motors, reconnected and excited to serve as generators, to brake the motored wheels. On a PA that's only the two 'end' axles per truck.
Mister Mikado I've lost many a teeny part to the mysterious ether of the workshop floor, never to be seen again even after searching on hands and knees with a magnifier and flashlight. -Rob
I've lost many a teeny part to the mysterious ether of the workshop floor, never to be seen again even after searching on hands and knees with a magnifier and flashlight. -Rob
rrinker A trick that seems to help is to lay the flashlight on the floor - even a small part lit side on like that will cast a fairly large shadow.
A trick that seems to help is to lay the flashlight on the floor - even a small part lit side on like that will cast a fairly large shadow.
Thanks for the tip.
I just successfully used LePage Super Glue and the marker to re-attach the ladder that leads up to the cab.
If you look at the two photos below, the first photo shows the missing ladder which is actually tucked inside the shell due to my faulty replacing of the shell on the chassis a few weeks back.
The second photo shows the full ladder on my other PA. The super glue was nothing more than a small spot of glue on each side of the ladder, but it was enough to fully secure the ladder.
This LePage Super Glue is good stuff.
richhotrainHey guys, that worked. Found one of my two missing brake cylinders. One down and one to go.
We find comets that way, which is far more needle-in-a-haystack than a brake cylinder even in a very large room...
Overmod richhotrain Hey guys, that worked. Found one of my two missing brake cylinders. One down and one to go. Try getting your 'sight line' down as close to the ground as possible (you can use angled mirrors if 'lying down' is inconvenient) and then get someone to move the low, raking light. Human perception picks up changes much more readily than recognizing small objects.
richhotrain Hey guys, that worked. Found one of my two missing brake cylinders. One down and one to go.
Try getting your 'sight line' down as close to the ground as possible (you can use angled mirrors if 'lying down' is inconvenient) and then get someone to move the low, raking light. Human perception picks up changes much more readily than recognizing small objects.
Now, you would think with a bare concrete floor, an HO scale brake cylinder would be fairly easy to find. But, my basement floor, around and under the layout, is littered with tiny dust balls and various small pieces of debris. So, there is a lot of clutter to deal with when searching the floor for something like a brake cylinder.
That's why the Lord invented the Micro-Vac with a few pieces of stocking stretched across a wand joint or two: it pulls in everything without damage and then lets you pick through ... two birds with one stone; the floor is clean and you'll likely retrieve as many of those little Kadee springs as haven't entered another dimension, the dimension from Speed Racer entered only by speed, the incredible speed achieved only by fleas, tiny springy metal things, and brake cylinders propelled by the terrible gaze of Sauron...
Overmod That's why the Lord invented the Micro-Vac with a few pieces of stocking stretched across a wand joint or two: it pulls in everything without damage and then lets you pick through ... two birds with one stone; the floor is clean and you'll likely retrieve as many of those little Kadee springs as haven't entered another dimension, the dimension from Speed Racer entered only by speed, the incredible speed achieved only by fleas, tiny springy metal things, and brake cylinders propelled by the terrible gaze of Sauron...
richhotrainPerhaps a safer, cheaper, and more efficient method would simply be to use a broom to sweep segments of the floor.
From their perspective the concrete floor looks like no man's land at Passchendaele (this being an appropriately Eastery reference) and here comes the broom, thousands of springy fibers dragging the surface at hundreds of scale miles per hour, randomly accelerating whatever they strike in what might be a range of angles. The situation is worse if the swept thing is inelastic, like a steel hairspring-stud screw, or springy like a Kadee coil. Or if it can be deformed by being jammed against the floor or dragged in the sweep.
Better to use controlled wind (you can vary the 'suction' and hence the generated wind fairly easily) that gently pulls everything into a yielding embrace. And it works for stuff around invisible corners or little crevices and crannies...
And if you need a little 'broom' encouragement, a little agitation with even soft brushes will get items up and into the moving airstream...
Well, no sense arguing this issue any further. I see this as a hands and knees operation with a trouble light.