Every once in awhile I see a post questioning the difference of cheap craft paints vs. much more expensive artists paints. The main difference (other than the obvious price point) is color accuracy: craft paints will dry to a slightly (sometimes significantly) different shade or hue than the wet paint out of the bottle. Quality artist paints will not shift color as they dry, and are much more predictable in viscosity both right out of the tube and when mixed with quality additives. For those folks that weather locos/rolling stock/structures to a photographic level of realism, the artists colors are critical. For the majority of us who are just trying to "plausibly junk some stuff up a wee bit -- or a lot", the cheap craft paint's characteristics can actually be an advantage. In this case, cheap = good. Acrylic vs. oil: I honestly don't know if truly cheap oil paints exist, but main difference between the two is dry time. Acrylics dry yesterday. Oils may dry by the time the Vikings win a Super Bowl. But oils give you a ton of working time for rubbing and squishing paint around (or removing it) with anything at hand, including any part of your hand. The sheen with many oils may be a bit shinier than standard acrylics, but a dull coat will even it all out. Sorry if this is redundant to other posts, but thought I'd post something positive rather than just complain about the new site rollout, which still blows infinite chunks.
Drum Guy:
I use mainly three different kinds of paint.
1) Model paint: I only use solvent based paint and 99% of what I use it for is through the airbrush. These include Scalecoat, Testors Model Master, Floquil, and a few others.
2) Craft paint: The two brands I use the most are Delta Ceramcoat and Americana Folk Art. These come in 2 oz. squeeze bottles. The two brands have different properties. Delta is generally thin and requires two coats. Folk Art is much thicker and has a higher pigment load. I use these for painting scenery, backdrops, buildings, roadways, etc.
3) Figure paint (water soluable): These are expensive small bottles generally sold in hobby shops that cater to military, historical, and wargaming modellers. Brands include Citadel, Vallejo, AK Interactive, Turbo-Dork, Reaper Master, and others. These have an incredibly high pigment load and a "vinyl" solution (whatever that means). These paints are extremely durable and easy to use. I use these for detail painting and figure painting.
There are cheap oil paints. I only use the "el-cheapos", and only for dot filtering.
I think what are called "Artist's Paint" generally come in tubes, and I do not use those.
There are "Artist's Inks" that I have found very handy for some painting effects.
I hope this helped.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
If we only limit the discussion to craft and artist paint, there is some healthy debate here. I use both. Craft paint is used on structures and some scenery. Artist paint (the type in tubes) I use to mimic rust. It's more expensive than the craft paint and takes longer to dry. Nonetheless, a small tube will prob last me a lifetime.
Kevin has won awards for his detailed painting of small military or game figures. I will defer to him for understanding the properties and quality of model paints.
IMO, it comes down to pigment density and flow characteristics.
- Douglas
Yes, I should have clarified I was leaving model paints out of the discussion since they are already so specific to our hobbies. The topic of model paints could fill a book on its own. Probably already has!
We need an expert here. I am not one. But I think that for acrylics, the main difference between cheap and expensive is the granularity of the pigment. Cheaper=coarser, in theory. But to Kevin's point, there might also be more or less diluting material in the mix.
I think that solvent paints are more complicated in terms of chemistry. There are different kinds, with different properties.
Simon
DoughlessKevin has won awards for his detailed painting of small military or game figures. I will defer to him for understanding the properties and quality of model paints.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. All my awards have been for painting miniature figures, not model railroad subjects, vehicles, or diorama displays.
Weathering is my weakest point. I am happy with most of what I can do, but when I see the work of others, I am amazed.
Just a note: I have won awards, but never a Golden Daemon, Golden Paintbrush, or Golden Sophie, and that pretty much makes me a nobody. My biggest accomplishment was at Necronomicon one year when I swept the fantasy categories, best army, best unit, and best individual figure.
kasskabooseIf we only limit the discussion to craft and artist paint, there is some healthy debate here. I use both. Craft paint is used on structures and some scenery. Artist paint (the type in tubes) I use to mimic rust. It's more expensive than the craft paint and takes longer to dry. Nonetheless, a small tube will prob last me a lifetime.
I do not use artist paint in tubes, so I cannot contribute anything. All I use tube paint for is Dot Filtering, as I previously mentioned.
There is a talented figure painter that lives in Texas that uses oil paints for all flesh surfaces, and her work is amazing.
DrumguyYes, I should have clarified I was leaving model paints out of the discussion since they are already so specific to our hobbies. The topic of model paints could fill a book on its own. Probably already has!
Understood. Since i do not want to hijack/wreck your thread, and I have no experience with artist paints, I will drop out of this disucssion.
I use the artist oils for rust, as it seems to add texture to the rust effect, but that's all I use them for.
A tube last forever. It takes a long time for it to dry.
I used the craft paints on my backdrop, and have had some good results painting structures with an air brush, using craft paints.
I also use a lot of decanted paint from sray cans. Right from the can, it usually works great in an air brush. (don't know if decant is the right word) I use a big straw to transfer the paint to another container.
The spray can primers usually need to be thinned.
Kevin, I'd love to see your figures. You've probably shown some before, but a refresher would be great.
Mike.
My You Tube
OK, the differences start with how fine the pigments are. The higher end has more finely ground up pigments, they tend to cover better also the binders are different. This is not to say that you can't get fine results with the cheaper but the skill level goes up. I tend to use craft paints for scenery and model paints for models. The model paints tend to hold better to model type surfaces. As for metalics, better quality is a must.
mbinsewiKevin, I'd love to see your figures. You've probably shown some before, but a refresher would be great.
A few:
1/56 scale:
1/100 Scale:
Also remember that price dose not always equate to better quality. Hey my art school training is being used, for me like algebra, it dose not get used that often as I chose another career in life.
Wow Kevin! Thanks for the look. Skin tones look great.
Hey Kevin, you ever go to gaming conventions?
rrebellHey Kevin, you ever go to gaming conventions?
I was talking about this in the diner.
I just received word that Historicon 2021 has been cancelled, so it looks like it will be a few months before I got to another one, but yes, I love gaming conventions.
Kevin you should never drop out of any discussion regarding painting! Yes, artists acrylics and oils generally come in tubes, but some high end brands like Golden offer many viscosities from airbrush to very thick pastes. But the regardless of viscosity, those same colors will come out of the tube/jar/whatever at the same color, and dry exactly as it came out wet. Whereas the cheap craft paint -- with it's cheaper pigment and lower pigment load -- is gonna do whatever it does, which is great for landscape bases and random weathering effects.
I also use a lot of model paint, and though I rarely find a need for a prototype specific color (I just wing it), I've got a ton of Tamiya which is wonderful for brushing, and a lot of Vallejo which is great for airbrushing. But ounce for ounce, model paints are much more expensive than even high grade artists paints. Paint is just like anything else in this hobby, spend the money when needed, but if cheap works just as well, go cheap!
DrumguyKevin you should never drop out of any discussion regarding painting!
I tried, I thought I was out, but I was pulled back in!
Thanks, DrumGuy. I've wondered. This helps. Dan
Kevin those figures are fantastic. I'm not into the sort of wargaming with miniatures but those photos have me looking at kits just to paint and display!
RE: craft paint, I know most folks probably wouldn't go straight from .50 cent bottle of acrylic craft paint to model, but I tried it with techniques I learned when doing armor models. Having never painted weathered a locomotive and not having an airbrush, I decided to try some acrylic craft paint with a little water to thin and a paper towel to dry brush it building up to the level of dirt I was happy with. I figured that if it wasn't good I could just use some water to clean up mistakes.
Honestly looking at it up close on a photo with a white background makes it look more heavy than it is. I may have been more heavy handed with the paint than I initially thought, but I got the dirt effect I was looking for. I built up layers.
I considered oil paints but cleanup was my main concern here. I would like to get an airbrush at some point but I like the result I got with craft paints - although I know it may not be to everyone's taste. Sticking to earth tones, color shifting isn't as much of a concern.
I used the same techniques and craft paint to tone down a very clean Walther's caboose.
Mike
The Backshops - A blog dedicated to modeling projects
Good job, that Mikado needs a "real" wash - I'm guessing it's scheduled for the scrap yard soon!
I also like to use craft paint acrylics for washes. Dry brushing too, although the paint does not seem to be as "powdery" as the solvent paints for that purpose... I may be imagining things.
snjroy Good job, that Mikado needs a "real" wash - I'm guessing it's scheduled for the scrap yard soon! I also like to use craft paint acrylics for washes. Dry brushing too, although the paint does not seem to be as "powdery" as the solvent paints for that purpose... I may be imagining things. Simon
Considering I model anywhere between the early 1940s to the very early 1950s, looking like it's destined for the torch is defintely not my intention
It's defintely more subtle in person, although I may tone it back some anyhow. That's the nice thing about the craft paints - it's super easy to roll it back with a cotton swab and some water.
I think it looks great, I was only joking!
SeeYou190 rrebell Hey Kevin, you ever go to gaming conventions? I was talking about this in the diner. I just received word that Historicon 2021 has been cancelled, so it looks like it will be a few months before I got to another one, but yes, I love gaming conventions. -Kevin
rrebell Hey Kevin, you ever go to gaming conventions?
rrebellEver been to Kubla Con.
We should really take convention discussions to the diner, since they are off-topic for model railroading.
I have never been to Kublacon (I thought it was spelled Kubla-Khan, LOL), I have only been to California once. We have so many game conventions in Florida that I do not need to travel far for a lot of fun.
I'll bet living in California is much the same.
I only travel for the big-name figure painting competitions, Reapercon in Dallas, Games-Day in Atlanta, Adepticon (Chicago) for the Crystal Paintbrush, and so on.
I've enjoyed some weathering with Winsor & Newton artist oils, especially rust effects, but recently learned of Wilder and Abteilung tube oil paints that are made specifically for modeling, said to dry faster and to a matte finish.
Regards, Peter
HO-Velorecently learned of Wilder and Abteilung tube oil paints that are made specifically for modeling, said to dry faster and to a matte finish.
That is good information!
Thanks Peter.
SeeYou190 rrebell Ever been to Kubla Con. We should really take convention discussions to the diner, since they are off-topic for model railroading. I have never been to Kublacon (I thought it was spelled Kubla-Khan, LOL), I have only been to California once. We have so many game conventions in Florida that I do not need to travel far for a lot of fun. I'll bet living in California is much the same. I only travel for the big-name figure painting competitions, Reapercon in Dallas, Games-Day in Atlanta, Adepticon (Chicago) for the Crystal Paintbrush, and so on. -Kevin
rrebell Ever been to Kubla Con.