Hello, need some guidance on how to secure track with plastic ties to Styrofoam board. Thank you.
banjobenne1 Hello, need some guidance on how to secure track with plastic ties to Styrofoam board. Thank you.
I used a tube of caulk with good results. The caulk must say it is safe for foam.
Also, be sure to make it a very thin layer of caulk. Put down a thin layer of caulk, lay the track, and secure the track with pins or thumbtacks for a day to allow the caulk to cure.
This will hold the track securely, but will also allow the removal of the track if a mistake is made.
York1 John
Hi, your best bet would be using liquid nails caulk...although I would recommend using cork roadbed between the styrofoam and track.
Be sure to buy some T pins to hold the track down while gluing!
Enjoy!
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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO
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Why not white glue since easier to pull up, if necessary?
An earlier thread on the topic: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/189523.aspx.
Another option is not doing anything but using spikes periodically.
Dap 230 caulk or Liquid Nails Project adhesive. Spread it thin with a putty knife, you don't want so much it oozes over the ties.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hello All,
I use General Electric® (GE®) Silicone Caulk I or II. The difference between the two is the Silicone Caulk II is "Rain Ready In 30-minutes".
They both require 24-hours to be fully cured.
You can find these at most big box home improvement stores along with the caulk gun needed for application.
An advantage to using silicone caulk is you can remove the track without damaging the underlying foam base.
Then you can rub off the residual caulk from the styrofoam and track.
Silicone caulk also works on cork and foam roadbed. I am not familiar of how it reacts with Homosote® roadbed.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit Hello All, I use General Electric® (GE®) Silicone Caulk I or II. The difference between the two is the Silicone Caulk II is "Rain Ready In 30-minutes". They both require 24-hours to be fully cured. You can find these at most big box home improvement stores along with the caulk gun needed for application. An advantage to using silicone caulk is you can remove the track without damaging the underlying foam base. Then you can rub off the residual caulk from the styrofoam and track. Silicone caulk also works on cork and foam roadbed. I am not familiar of how it reacts with Homosote® roadbed. Hope this helps.
The disadvantage of silicone is that it does not take paint. Do you install ballast over it? How?
I work in construction and we never use silicone for anything any more.
I will not even say what I use to glue down track, I'm that tired of the responses.
Sheldon
Mow come on Sherldon, you know there are rare times (and I do mean rare) that silicone caulk is prefered. Reason no one uses it even for those things is it has a short shelf life.
rrebell Mow come on Sherldon, you know there are rare times (and I do mean rare) that silicone caulk is prefered. Reason no one uses it even for those things is it has a short shelf life.
Name me one other than the fact that the Granite guys still like it for some reason?
Phenoseal and Polyseamseal are just better for all those jobs, much easier to use, have a better shelf life, and their versatility means having less different products on the job.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe disadvantage of silicone is that it does not take paint. Do you install ballast over it? How?
The OP wrote...
banjobenne1Hello, need some guidance on how to secure track with plastic ties to Styrofoam board. Thank you.
No mention of painting, just asking how to adhere track to styrofoam.
To answer your question ATLANTIC CENTRAL:
I use silicone caulk to adhere Woodland Scenics foam roadbed to a blue insulation foam base.
This allows the roadbed to be repositioned without damaging the base, if necessary.
The track is then held to the roadbed using #19 x 5/8-inch wire brads through the factory drilled holes.
Once the trackwork is proven reliable then I use this method to adhere the track to the roadbed:
Instant Track-Tackit Ballast Adhesive Questions
Shower door seals, glass to metal for one.
rrebell Shower door seals, glass to metal for one.
OK, I will give you that one too. There you have it, the only two good uses for pure GE Silicone.
Both jobs that leave to someone who only does that.
jjdamnit Hello All, ATLANTIC CENTRAL The disadvantage of silicone is that it does not take paint. Do you install ballast over it? How? The OP wrote... banjobenne1 Hello, need some guidance on how to secure track with plastic ties to Styrofoam board. Thank you. No mention of painting, just asking how to adhere track to styrofoam. To answer your question ATLANTIC CENTRAL: I use silicone caulk to adhere Woodland Scenics foam roadbed to a blue insulation foam base. This allows the roadbed to be repositioned without damaging the base, if necessary. The track is then held to the roadbed using #19 x 5/8-inch wire brads through the factory drilled holes. Once the trackwork is proven reliable then I use this method to adhere the track to the roadbed: Instant Track-Tackit Ballast Adhesive Questions Hope this helps.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The disadvantage of silicone is that it does not take paint. Do you install ballast over it? How?
So the OP apparently wants to attach the track directly to foam, not foam roadbed to foam......
Lastspikemike Alex is acrylic latex caulk and takes paint fine. It's pretty near perfect track glue.
Alex is acrylic latex caulk and takes paint fine. It's pretty near perfect track glue.
If you say so.
I was going to stay out of this cluster, but there is some interesting chemistry behind this:
https://gefillinthegaps.com/hybrid/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwo-aCBhC-ARIsAAkNQisJ7KWT1C8_zGVxU8De7vVEASp5-W94YU1aHXuM2K74NbrmuCRYNQUaAlNwEALw_wcB
Not that latex adhesive caulk isn't still a better and less expensive alternative... as distinct from Alex Plus (as opposed to regular Alex, which is acrylic latex) which adds silicone ... but is still said to be paintable which implies surface-bonding alteration as well.
What the OP wants is a flexible, reasonably gap-filling adhesive that dries clear, easily takes further adhesives without softening in the process, and ideally is reasonably easy to separate and prep for rebonding of track alignment needs to change. Not so incidentally it should neither damage the foam or tear it up during realignment.
I have no dog in this hunt but I think it's been repeatedly established in the many, many other timeless-topic posts on this general subject that thin acrylic-latex adhesive caulk rings the bell, and is cheap and easily handled to boot.
Agreed, but Alex Plus is not an adhesive caulk. It is a sealer, interior/exterior "painters" caulk.
This is adhesive caulk:
https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/build/sealants/loctite_polyseamsealallpurposeadhesivecaulk.html
And so is this:
http://www.phenoseal.com/product_details.aspx?product=12
These are the products I use all the time at work, and the products I use to lay track. Track which I do not install on foam or cork, but rather on wood or homasote.
Foam and cork work, but they do not suite some of my requirements. Neither does Alex Plus.
In fact we don't use Alex Plus for paint work either, we use better stuff, like this:
https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/shermax-urethanized-elastomeric-sealant
We don't buy paint at Home Depot either...........
Why is PolySeamSeal better? It tacks up quicker, it dries faster, it's stronger, it's thicker but can be spread in a thin film more consistantly.
So you have time to adjust the track, but you do not need to nail it down or leave weight on it until the next day.
Downside - you are not taking it up, because it is adhesive.
We glue up marble shower walls with it, install counter tops and backsplashes, and then seal them in with the same product.
Why can you take up track layed with Alex Plus? Because it is not adhesive - it is a sealer.
But what could I possible know about it? I just restore 120 year old million dollar homes for a living.
Use whatever works you, and I will will keep using what works for me.
PolySeamSeal is too good at being an adhesive; when you bed something even in a thin layer, it wants to stay bedded. That's good for Hudson River Heritage, but overkill for plastic ties on foam. Mind you, that's not a criticism, just that we've had threads on the relative importance of being able to take the track up (or loose) and cheat it around without screwing up the relative line and surface.
I was interested to see that Phenoseal's clear caulk is acrylic rather than vinyl. Does it hold up the same?
Overmod PolySeamSeal is too good at being an adhesive; when you bed something even in a thin layer, it wants to stay bedded. That's good for Hudson River Heritage, but overkill for plastic ties on foam. Mind you, that's not a criticism, just that we've had threads on the relative importance of being able to take the track up (or loose) and cheat it around without screwing up the relative line and surface. I was interested to see that Phenoseal's clear caulk is acrylic rather than vinyl. Does it hold up the same?
In actual practice they are about the same and we use them interchangeably. The clear works just as well as the white. The clear Phenoseal does "feel" just a little different while you are applying it than the white, or any of the PolySeamSeal, but I see no real difference in application, workablity or durability.
The very first article I read about glueing down flex track the guy was using PolySeamSeal. I was familiar with it already and thought "what a good idea". Been sold ever since the first time I tried it.
And I have made clear my dislike of all these "soft" substrates for layout construction and roadbed. I can lean on a piece of 2" foam and put a palm print in it. I NEED to be able to lean on the benchwork, my scenes are going to be 3' to 4' deep in most places.
While most track is close the front or has other access, working on scenery will require weight supporting benchwork.
Maybe I am just good at 1/87 civil engineering, but I have never had any trouble figuring out in advance where the track needs to go within an 1/8" or so.
And I have never concerned myself with reusing track on the next layout, with any luck there will be no next layout after this one.
In construction work, one prime advantage of these products is how they can be easily tooled and shaped, unlike silicone or thinner "painters" caulk. They work well as an unpainted sealer, or a painted "caulk" or as an adhesive for a number of tasks.
Example - you install the cultured marble bathroom vanity top, you glue it to the wall and the vanity with PolySeamSeal. Then you caulk it in to the wall with that same PolySeamSeal, then you paint the the walls, cutting in a nice straight line on the seam, half of it painted, half not. Neat, clean waterproof, durable.
Alex Plus yellows and collects dirt if it is not painted. Again, it is cheap painter caulk, nothing more.
Lot of people say PolySeamSeal or other adheasive caulk is overkill for laying track - my plan is to build this next layout to last my lifetime.....
I don't like Alex Plus even for its intended purpose - its cheap, you get what you pay for.