Felling really dumb again--What is a Tortoise?

[SpaceMouse]

I have seen tortoises discussed here, but have not seen it anywhere else. I keep thinking it will eventually become self-evidient, but so far no luck.

So what the heck is a tortoise?

[ndbprr]

It is a switch machine that is basically a motor designed to stall and hold the points against one side. IT is always trying to pu***he points in the direction it is told. In addition it is highly geared so the switch points move realistically. They are in the $10-12 range and do an excllent job applying in some cases pounds of force to the switchpoints.

[cwclark]

here are some pictures of one at my webshot album and also, pictures with details on how to install them...Chuck
http://community.webshots.com/album/137793353fwcjGj/4

[leonardbrand]

I wish someone had told me that before I went out into the woods and caught up all them land turtles,they do not work very good and they crap all over everthing.

[SpaceMouse]

Okay,

They are slow moving switches with a lot of force. Other than the added realism, what is the reason for spending the extra money over say an Atlas snap switch?

[rrinker]

Low current draw - a small 1 amp power supply will power nearly 100 of them.

Plus the have built-in DPDT contacts that you can use to power the frogs and/or control signals.

And they last forever. Not sure how many we had at the club I used to belong to, but it was a lot, and I never saw one fail. I have one that I bought years ago and have since abused to no end - running it back and forth by hand as fast as I can push it, taking it apart many times, etc, yet it still works just like the brand new ones I bought.
Simplifies wiring, too, only 2 wires run to the Tortoise instead of 3, and control is by a simple DPDT toggle switch. Unless you use a capacitor discharge power supply for the Atlas switch machines, holding down the button, or having the button stick, is a sure route to burned up switch machine. No such problem with the Tortoise. Indicating which route was selected is easy, too - if you use a toggle switch on a schematic diagram for a control panel, the lever points to the route you selected. If you want more indication, it's easy to wire in LEDs in line with the Tortoise motor - no resistors or anything needed, the Tortoise motor automatically limits the current to LED safe levels.

--Randy

[SteelMonsters]

Tortoises are very reliable and they come with a DPDT set of contacts. They can take a beating and still work. They don't burn out easily, unlike the twin coil counterparts.

They also are low enough current for C/MRI users to control each tortoise with an SMC12 card. It's less costly to buy and control a tortoise with C/MRI than to do the same with twin coil switch machines. The advantage to controling turnouts with C/MRI is complex turnout routing can be done with a single pushbutton and prevent from switching under a train. It's also easy to program it to do just that.

[pastorbob]

Also real track switches do not "snap" when they are thrown. The Tortose is more realistic along with all the other benefits listed by others.

[Anonymous]

And on DCC you can select the switch (With appropriate cards) and just throw the darn thing as you approach it with the train.

(Hence the new railroad motto: "IS THAT THERE SWITCH THROWN YET!?")

They are expensive but seems to last a life time. They are quiet too. None of that ZZZZOPTH*SNAPTIH!! that startles your spouse, scares the cats and threatens to throw the points across the room in a whirling scythe looking to get into your stuff.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

And on DCC you can select the switch (With appropriate cards) and just throw the darn thing as you approach it with the train.

(Hence the new railroad motto: "IS THAT THERE SWITCH THROWN YET!?")

They are expensive but seems to last a life time. They are quiet too. None of that ZZZZOPTH*SNAPTIH!! that startles your spouse, scares the cats and threatens to throw the points across the room in a whirling scythe looking to get into your stuff.

So I just hook up my laptop and tell the train to go to Hogwarts and it's off.

So how much more than a snap switch are they? I can forsee a yard being a cash eating monster with tortoises.

[Anonymous]

Well, you activate the function on your DCC remote to make the tortoise switch motor "move the switch". You still control your train. The Totoise just controls one switch. No more, no less (I think.....)

[Jetrock]

SpaceMouse: One thing that should be made clear is that a Tortoise is not a switch, but rather a motor to drive a switch. They can be attached to any commercial or homemade switch/turnout. The Tortoise motor sits under the benchwork, with a hole drilled through theplywood--a lever moves back and forth, which moves the switch points in the appropriate direction. This can be controlled with the simple expedient of a DPDT switch, or, as mentioned, via DCC.

You'll still need to buy a switch to go with the Tortoise, as well as doing all the installation.

It isn't quite as simple as telling the train to go to Hogwarts--that's a whole other ball of wax. As 4884bigboy mentioned, you can use a DCC controller to enter the switch's address and throw the switch from your controller, rather than flipping a switch at the side of the layout.

Personally I prefer throwing my switches by hand, using ground throws or, in the case of my in-street track, with a Kadee uncoupling tool or bamboo skewer. But personally I like directly interacting with my trains (functioning as flagman and brakeman as well as engineer and conductor), and hate wiring. So manual switching is for me, but if some of your switches will be difficult to reach (bad idea, but sometimes you have to) automatic switch machines can be nice.

[SpaceMouse]

Okay,

The turnout is a piece of track
A switch is an electrical device for completing a circuit.

What then do you call the mechanism on the turnout that the tortoise moves?
What then do you call the "snap" device that moves the above?

[rrinker]

a "Switch machine"

The snap-action ones are more formally called "twin-coil" switch machines.

Of course, then there is the whole issue of 'turnout' vs 'switch'. Turnout is pretty much a model railroader (people, not the mag) invented term to avoid confusin between a track switch and an electrically switch. Depends on where I am, I switch (ha!) back and forth between terms all the time. Usually say "switch" when workign on the layout with my father in law, he's a retired railroader and he too says "switch" all the time.

Of course model railroaders being the jokesters that we are (who but John Armstrong would name a town on a layout set in Southeastern Pennsylvania "Llawn Mawr"?), when someone says "throw the switch" will likely respond with either "how far" or "it's too heavy for me to lift"

--Randy

[mcouvillion]

Chip,

Tortoise switch motors are built by a company named Circuitron. They also have available a remote activator for the Tortoise that allows you to mount the actual switch motor where you can easily get to it, not necessarily directly under the turnout. The actuator can be for horizontal or vertical activation. I have seen them used for turnouts in very restricted locations, and for activating semaphores and train-order signals. Usually, for semaphores and train-order signals, we have modified them to take out the slack, as the remote actuator is operated similar to a choke cable and not precise enough for accurate signal activation without modification.

You are right, a yard can be an expensive proposition, especially if you have a lot of turnouts, want route selection at the push of a single button, and want realistic operation. But, it only hurts (your pocketbook) once!

Mark C.

[robengland]

One more point: I've seen it suggested that slamming points around with a twin-coil type of switch motor (like the Atlas) doesn't do the points any good in the long term, while the Tortoise is nice and gentle. Dunno how true that is....

Personally, I control mainline turnouts with Tortoises (Tortii??) so i can have CTC (Central Train Control, like modern prototypes) using a PC, JMRI, DCC and DS54s - but that is another story [:)] I also have simple pushbutton controls on the fascia so when alone I can walkaround and control them too. All yard turnouts are manual, also like the prototype, thus greatly reducing the cost.

If you buy your Tortii in boxes of 6 or 12 you can get them for about $10-12 each. Add an electrical switch and a railroad switch and you're done: you can then control them remotely from one or more locations, hook them up later via more fancy hardware to a computer etc etc or just enjoy watching them purr gently across.

If you are a technology geek, then it's a great buzz to set up a route on the PC screen using the mouse and hear the Tortii dutifully whirring away on the layout.

Oh yeah, that's one unprototypical feature they share with Atlas etc, they make a noise.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Okay,

The turnout is a piece of track
A switch is an electrical device for completing a circuit.

Actually, no. The piece of track that moves is generally called a "switch" by actual railroadmen, but is also called a "turnout", primarily by model railroaders, to avoid confusion between track switches and electrical switches, but they get called switches anyhow. This is confusing to many, but hey, that's life.

A switch is an electrical device for completing a circuit, but is ALSO a piece of track that moves to direct a train.

QUOTE:
What then do you call the mechanism on the turnout that the tortoise moves?

Well, if you want to get technical, the switch motor moves the "points" of the turnout (the actual bits of track that move.)

QUOTE:
What then do you call the "snap" device that moves the above?

A switch mechanism (in the case of a manually operated turnout) or a switch motor (in the case of an electrically operated turnout.) A Tortoise is a type of switch motor.

[TurboOne]

Chip, only Leonardbrand got it right. Out here, in the west we have 1000s of tortoises, or torti. They look like a turtle, but live where its hot and dry. They are protected now, like everything in CA, so they are harder to come by.

What these have to do with trains, I'm not sure. [:D]

If you got your Walthers catalog, the tortoise are in there, as I am working on adding picture capability to my knowledge, right now I can't send a pic of CA tortoise, nor the train part.

How are the kids ?

Tim (yes that was funny)

[rrinker]

They're good for motive power, but getting them to follow the tracks can be difficult. But a big plus, they have HUGE tractive efforts - no problems with that 100 car train...