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Melting decals

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, March 18, 2021 11:15 AM

hon30critter
I have to correct an earlier post where I used the word 'MicroSol' when I meant to say 'MicroSet':

That is an easy mistake to make with such similar names.

I thought you meant it as written originally.

-Kevin

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, March 18, 2021 10:13 AM

I have to correct an earlier post where I used the word 'MicroSol' when I meant to say 'MicroSet':

hon30critter
If I can, I will share my decal applying method. First, I do not use any decal solutions until the decal is located in the proper place. All I use is water to float the decal until it is where I want it. I tried using MicroSol MicroSet to position the decals but I found that it made the decals too fragile. To give you an example, when I was doing my McKeen Motor Car I had to apply pinstripes along the bottom of the shell. When I tried to use MicroSol MicroSet the pinstripes kept breaking. When I tried using just water the problem went totally away and the pinstripes were relatively easy to apply.

Sorry if I mislead anyone.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, March 18, 2021 12:16 AM

Darth Santa Fe
The decals are looking great, and this is going to be a real nice looking model when it's all done!

Yes I love good-news updates.

-Kevin

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Thursday, March 18, 2021 12:12 AM

Giving a little update here, the Micro Sol solution is working much better!  The decals are looking great, and this is going to be a real nice looking model when it's all done!

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 6:58 PM

hon30critter

Hi Kevin,

I have never had a decal 'dissolve'.

If I can, I will share my decal applying method. First, I do not use any decal solutions until the decal is located in the proper place. All I use is water to float the decal until it is where I want it. I tried using MicroSol to position the decals but I found that it made the decals too fragile. To give you an example, when I was doing my McKeen Motor Car I had to apply pinstripes along the bottom of the shell. When I tried to use MicroSol the pinstripes kept breaking. When I tried using just water the problem went totally away and the pinstripes were relatively easy to apply.

Dave

 

That's also how I usually do things.  The only exception so far has been when using Fox decals on UK steam.  They recommended adding a drop of dish detergent to the water, and for these, it actually did help them to slide into position better, and the material they use is so thin that it barely needs any setting solution at all!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 2:01 AM

When I put the stripe on this N scale boxcar, I ended up applying it in sections to get it to stay straight while it snuggled down around the door latch bars.

-Kevin

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 1:57 AM

SeeYou190
Curious if there is anyone this has never happened to.

Hi Kevin,

I have never had a decal 'dissolve'.

If I can, I will share my decal applying method. First, I do not use any decal solutions until the decal is located in the proper place. All I use is water to float the decal until it is where I want it. I tried using MicroSol MicroSet to position the decals but I found that it made the decals too fragile. To give you an example, when I was doing my McKeen Motor Car I had to apply pinstripes along the bottom of the shell. When I tried to use MicroSol MicroSet the pinstripes kept breaking. When I tried using just water the problem went totally away and the pinstripes were relatively easy to apply.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 1:40 AM

Darth Santa Fe
but then the moment I use something factory fresh, everything got weird!

I seriously doubt there was a problem with either the decal or the setting solution... unless you had the same results with every decal on the sheet.

When I have had this happen to me, it has been after I have already used a few decals from the sheet and the same solution... then... BAM!... one of the decals dissolves (or curls up, or instantly shrinks, or distorts badly...).

I think it is just "one of those things" that happens from time to time.

Curious if there is anyone this has never happened to.

-Kevin

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 1:26 AM

Darth Santa Fe
I'm not sure how, but I've somehow been able to use old decals without fresh sealant and gotten great results, but then the moment I use something factory fresh, everything got weird!

I suspect that there was a problem with the decal sheet. That's the only variable in the mix. I also believe that Micro Scale would like to know what has happened so that they can correct any problems on their end or determine for sure that they were not at fault.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:46 AM

hon30critter

Hi Darth,

I was thinking more of asking them if they had any advice or experience with the problem rather than just asking for replacements.

Dave

 
Ah, ok!  I might do that if I still have trouble with it.  This is the first time I've had this happen when using their decals (been using Microscale for probably 15 years now with no issues), and I've been using the same bottle of Solvaset the whole time, so that's why the whole thing was so confusing to me this time.  This wasn't even an old sheet!  I'm not sure how, but I've somehow been able to use old decals without fresh sealant and gotten great results, but then the moment I use something factory fresh, everything got weird!Surprise

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:44 PM

fmilhaupt
Now that Champ Decal Set is gone, Solvaset is the reigning nuclear weapon of decal setting solutions.

Nope.

The undisputed champion-king-nuclear-option of decal setting solutions is Daco Strong.

It is not available in the United States, so you need to find a way to order it from a European hobby shop.

NHTX
 A wise investment for future use with old decals is a bottle of Microscale's Liquid Decal Film.  It is brushed over the decals before they are cut/trimmed prior to wetting for application.

Yes +1

Liquid Decal Film is great stuff.

-Kevin

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Posted by NHTX on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:37 PM

 A wise investment for future use with old decals is a bottle of Microscale's Liquid Decal Film.  It is brushed over the decals before they are cut/trimmed prior to wetting for application.  I have successfully applied decals over 30 years old by using it according to Microscale's directions which appear on the bottle.  I would stay away from Solvaset when using today's thinner decals.

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:22 PM

Darth Santa Fe
I thought of contacting Microscale about the ones that were messed up, but decided to just buy some new ones instead since it wasn't any fault of theirs.

Hi Darth,

I was thinking more of asking them if they had any advice or experience with the problem rather than just asking for replacements.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 6:25 PM

fmilhaupt
And hopefully you're ordering Micro Set and Micro Sol to go with those new decals? If not, I really, really, really recommend it. Now that Champ Decal Set is gone, Solvaset is the reigning nuclear weapon of decal setting solutions.

Yes, that's what I'll be using this time.

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 6:19 PM
And hopefully you're ordering Micro Set and Micro Sol to go with those new decals? If not, I really, really, really recommend it. Now that Champ Decal Set is gone, Solvaset is the reigning nuclear weapon of decal setting solutions.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 5:57 PM

Thanks for all the advice!  We'll see how it all goes in round 2.Smile

I thought of contacting Microscale about the ones that were messed up, but decided to just buy some new ones instead since it wasn't any fault of theirs.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:21 PM

This boxcar, my pride-and-joy, was lettered with a set of decals that was over 40 years old that were custom printed in the 1970s.

Using old decals is a completely different subject that I could go on an on about for days.

I have dozens of private roadname decals in my collection in the 20-30 year old range. I have some I acquired in the Whit Towers collection that are 50 years old like this one.

There is a skill set to making them work, but that should be a topic for another thread.

-Kevin

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 10:58 AM

I've had old (12-15years old) decals do this, one just within the past month or so, but never relatively fresh ones.

Of course, I've never used Walthers Decal solvent either, it may be a bit stronger than my normal go too... 

But my last one, the "Roadway" trailer logo suddenly turned into a mangled "Ivoldviov" logo before becoming totally unreadable. That set had to be at least 15 years old though. Maybe closer to 20.

EDIT: Older decals I am now "Re-Sealing" with Testors Decal Bondin spray, like you would use if you printed your own at home, before use. Maybe it would help on all decals when using stronger solvents?

Ricky W.

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1: It's my railroad, my rules.

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3: Any objections, consult above rules.

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Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:08 AM

I never had one dissolve.   But have had them curl up a lot and bond to itself requiring removal and start over.  Seams to be more issues with decals in the past 10 years.   Decals I have that predAte that seam to be fine.  Could it be something in the change of formulations of the inks, paper, paint and solutions?

 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:52 AM

Darth Santa Fe
And then suddenly, the decals start melting in every direction you can imagine and your formerly great looking paint job now looks like it got caught in an acid bath?

YES.

It happens. The worst time it happened to me was when I was building an Indy Car model, limited edition, and one of the decals disolved. These decals were not available seperately, and it was a limited edition kit.

Another time was on an Eduard brand 1/48 BF-109 special edition kit, again with unique decals, and one disolved.

There appears to be a corollary to Murphy's Law here.

The harder a decal is to replace, the more likely it will dissolve in setting solution.

My best advice is just to clean it up and try using Micro-Set as a first step.

Sometimes I don't notice a distorted decal until the weathering is done and the Dullcoat sprayed on.

-Kevin

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:28 AM

Hi Darth,

Have you considered contacting Microscale?

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:16 AM

I keep a bottle of Walthers Solvaset on hand (it's probably a 20 year old bottle) only for a last-resort on the toughest spots where a decal refuses to lay around a detail or protrusion.

For most decal setting I use Micro Set and Micro Sol. These seem to be less aggressive. I'd rather make several applications of the weaker solution than go at it all at once. The Micro set is mainly for preliminary decal placement then the Micro Sol can help soften the decal for contouring around rivets and such.

http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MD&Product_Code=MI-2&Category_Code=FINPROD'

NMRA offers a handy data sheet on decaling:

https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/d1o.pdf

 

Of course, there's a prototype for everything:

 PC-220125_X61E 1970 by Edmund, on Flickr

Good Luck, Ed

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Melting decals
Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Monday, March 8, 2021 11:52 PM

Anyone ever been making excellent progress on a paint job, you had the decals down and looking excellent, and then you put the setting solution on?  And then suddenly, the decals start melting in every direction you can imagine and your formerly great looking paint job now looks like it got caught in an acid bath?

I'm currently painting a Penn Line GG1 in the PRR 5-stripe scheme, as I've done with other models before and had great success.  For this one though, wherever droplets of setting solution formed, the pin stripes started melting all over the place, and I have no idea why.  I've never had that problem when doing pinstripes with Microscale decals before.  The decals were still a little damp from when I slid them on probably 15 minutes earlier.  Could that have been the problem?  Or is it possible Walthers Solvaset has an expiration date or something?

I have to completely strip down and repaint the body, and a new set of decals had to be ordered, so I want to be sure I don't make the same mistake twice.  Thanks for any suggestions!

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