I installed decoders inN scale Microtrains FT State locos. I put number decals on then so I could address them and know which was which. First time hanlding on the decal came off. I has used microsol and microset. So I though a quick spray Teasters Dulcote would help after I fixed the decal. The dulcote left a whiteish gray haze primarily on the top of the loco.
I am not sure what went wrong. This is my first time using dulcote on locomotive or rolling stock.
What can I do to fix this. Any advice appreciated.
Sounds like maybe you sprayed from too far away and the Dullcote was partially dry when it hit the model. If you have a less than prime piece of rolling stock, you might want to practice on that.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Oh Oh!
It's been my experience when you rush things and apply something else too quickly, chemical reactions happen.
Just an opinion from past experiences that went South.
I'm definitely not an authority on setting decals. Kevin is "The Man" you want to talk to.
I have two box cars he custom painted and decaled for me that look Factory!
TF
If your Dullcote went on wet and from a proper spraying distance and the model looks frosted rather than hazy it may be too heavy a coat/coats or excess humidity during application. If this happened today Doctor Faust's 'remove frosting' technique might help, just go easy with the heat source. Worse than a frosted model is a melted one.
Regards, Peter
It sounds as if the problem stems more from the decal application, than the Dullcote. If they came off during handling before Dullcote was applied, was the surface clean, free of grease and oils including those normally found in the human body?
To install a decoder one must remove the shell, exposing components that have lubricant applied to them. Was the surface the decals were applied to glossy as well as clean? Applying decals to a matte finish is akin to applying them to sandpaper. No amount of Microsol or Microset will make a decal adhere to a surface that has flat paint or dullcote on it. They are not decal adhesives. They only soften the decal film, allowing it to more closely follow the contours of what it is applied to. Dullcote is not a decal adhesive either, it is a matte-finish sealant for decals that have been properly applied to a clean, smooth, as in glossy surface.
Could these models be given a tiny spritz of Glosscote in the areas where the decals will go, once it is assured the surfaces are clean and, free of any oils? Once the decals have been applied using Microsol, Microset and allowed to dry at least 24 hours-then hit them with your Dullcote.
Is sounds like you have a case of "Blush" in which the Dullcote solvent mix may have absorbed a small amount of moisture in the air (humidity). Shaking the rattle can thoroughly, and appying in thin coats is helpful in avoiding blush issues.
Respectfully, I'm likely going across the grain here, but I've had very good success in sealing decals "first" with one gloss coat of clear, then following up with an additional coat of either gloss, semi-gloss, or flat clear.
In the past I used Model Masters (solvent based) clears and Pollyscale (waterbased) clears, with no issues in sealing decals nicely with no reactions.
To me, Dullcote is a 1980's-era type of mix that doesn't always play nicely with some of our more-modern model paint products. The original formulation for Dullcote contained talc. I'm guessing that the newer formulation may still contain some talc, but this is only my opinion.
I have a 20 year old can of Testor's Dullcote on my workshelf that is still half-full. I only use it for structures.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
texasperry The dulcote left a whiteish gray haze primarily on the top of the loco.
When this happened to me another light application of dulcote solved the problem.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
AntonioFP45I've had very good success in sealing decals "first" with one gloss coat of clear, then following up with an additional coat of either gloss, semi-gloss, or flat clear.
I do this also. Glosscoat over the final decals, then weathering, then dullcoat. Having the glosscoat on before weathering sometimes allows the weathering to be removed if the effect is bad.
DSchmittWhen this happened to me another light application of dulcote solved the problem.
This has worked for me too.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Not to drift this thread more than a moment. Here we are recapping 'settled science' on best principles for decaling once again... with the OP posting in a way that shows he had not seen them before asking.
While I understand it may short-route a couple of Kalmbach plans to monetize 'pro content' in the new Internet experience, we might set up 'stickies' here, or an additional forum to the four we have, that establishes 'best practices' with all the painstaking details and options in one place. Painting (including techniques showing no brushstrokes), various kinds of adhesive, and decal optimization are but a few things that would highly benefit from being put in one place, easy to find and navigate to, powered by the collective wisdom of many excellent practitioners here some of whom are beyond making new posts themselves every time the forgotten subject comes up again.
Lastspikemike Possibly you didn't shake up the can enough before spraying.
Possibly you didn't shake up the can enough before spraying.
That was my first thought - as with any rattle can paint DullCoat needs to be shaken way more than the five or six shakes you give the shave cream can in the morning. I often shake the can for a full two minutes before use. I also notice that DullCoat does some odd things in high humidity surroundings.
Dave Nelson
The rule I was taught about 'rattle cans' was to shake them at least 30 seconds after the first 'rattle' of the little agitator ball inside. Turn it over and over as you shake, too.
Then shake between passes, about 5-10sec each time.
As I recall, the active ingredient in modern Dullcote is a form of silica, perhaps the same 'fumed silica' used as a fine abrasive and 'mechanical surface-adhesion promoter'. This is much more than just very, very finely-divided quartz. See here for an introduction..
There are discussions of how some forms of this may be hygroscopic. What might be interesting in case of 'fogging' would be to use gentle hot air from a hair dryer, directed through a powerful desiccant of some kind to make the air both hot and very dry as it strikes the deflicted surface. A vacuum chamber like that used to degas resin castings might be useful if you can access one.
I rigged up an arrangement with a syringe and some inert tubing to flush the nozzle of a spray can out with cleaning solution or solvent, and then rinsing, after using, followed by compressed air. To me that puts a little less spray material in the air and gets the nozzle geometry more perfectly 'purged' than the usual invert-and-squirt until clear approach. But it has to be done with discipline...
I've never timed rattle can shakes. Just shake it vigorously while counting my shakes. I stop at 120 shakes, a completely arbitrary number.
Which is probably 45 seconds, if I worked it out.
I sprayed a GP9 with Dul-Coat after weathering it, to seal the weathering powders. It was humid, almost misting, out and I was horrified, but when I looked at it I really liked the final result which looked very faded. I kept it.
I think the solution is to wait for a dry day and repeat the Dul-Coat application. You may need to replace the decals first.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I too use Dullcote to hold weathering powders and agree 100% with strong shakes of the can for awhile. That matters as does the weather. I wonder if the OP was working on the models outdoors or indoors.
The process for using decals is one I plan to watch closely.
This happened to me once when I sprayed it in very high humidity. I gave the model another light spray after in lower humidity, and it fixed it right up.
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Overmod an additional forum to the four we have, that establishes 'best practices' with all the painstaking details and options in one place.
I honestly don't think there are very many true "best practices".
What we are doing is really discussing the best techniques for cat-skinning. There are a lot of different ways to do this stuff and get "pro" level results.
My techniques come from years of experience, and I can demostrate them and show you, but they might not work for you.
Other people get amazing results using tools and techniques I would never do.
When I was learning to do drywall mud finishing for my house project, I watched dozens of different pros doing mud on YouTube. They all did it different, and they all got better results than I could.
In the end, the way I do drywall mud now is not a copy of any of what I saw, but just what I found works after weeks of doing it.
I hope my shares help people with their questions, but unlike some, I never say my way is the right way. Your right way is up to you to arrive at.
I can show my favorite products, my procedures, and lots of pictures of the results I get. I love to share, and I hope I am helping.
I've never had a problem with Dullcote or Glosscote, but I don't use rattle cans, only an airbrush.
For good results with decals, it's best to apply them to a gloss surface, and use appropriate setting solutions to eliminate any air trapped beneath the decal. Once the decal has been properly set and is dry, another coat of clear gloss should be applied, as it will make the gloss of the decal match the gloss of the surface to which it's been applied.To finish, an overspray of clear (gloss, matte, or semi-gloss) should be applied over the entire item that's been decaled to give a uniform finish to all of it.
Overspraying a decal with a clear finish before applying it will make it more difficult to settle properly, as the clear coating will impede the action of the setting solution.
Wayne
Not to hijack the thread, but I manage to have good results without having to gloss coat everything to counter the statement of decals don't work on a matte surface. I brush Microset (blue) on the area in question like crazy. I soak my decals in distilled water. I let the decals dry and I will then put another coat of Microset or Microsol (red) depending on the surface on the car and the look of the decal. Never had a problem other than "silvering" twice with my decals and that was many years ago.