Hi, I have Googled this and searched the Community, but I cannot find an answer to my specific enquiry (after figuring-out how to get the Body-shell off) which is:
'After removing the 2 No. Screws next to the Fuel Tank, how do I remove the Die-cast Weight, so I can access the Gears for Lubrication'? The Weight has Pick-up Wires (from the Trucks) that are secured by adhesive Tape.
Short of undoing all the Wiring - I am at a loss as to why anyone would design it in this manner, when a couple of Lubrication access holes are all that would be required, for each Truck?
I don't want to dismantle any more than I have to, but I will cut & re-solder Wires, if that is what it takes.
Any guidance or directing to a really useful Youtube vid on this subject, would be much appreciated. Thanks, Paul
"It's the South Shore Line, Jim - but not as we know it".
I don't have any of those locos, but most plastic models of diesels have clip-on covers on the bottom of each truck. A small screwdriver or a not-too-sharp X-Acto blade, used carefully, should remove the cover easily. I'll take a photo of an older Athearn diesel to show the cover and the gears, and add it here.
EDIT:
Here's the plastic cover plate, which is a one-piece snap-on...
The X-Acto blade, at the top in the photo below, is inserted between the truck's gear housing and the edge of the coverplate, then given a small twist to disengage one side of the end of the coverplate....
Repeat this procedure on the same side, but other end of the same truck, and the cover will pop off, revealing the gears...
Once you've completed the lube job, replace the coverplate, engaging the clips on one side of the cover, then pressing down on the opposite side to snap it into place.
Wayne
There should be a screw hidden by the trucks on each end. Turn the trucks to one side or the other, and look.
Along with the 2 screws next to the fuel tank.
I think the only screws that you see when you pop off the fuel tank, hold the motor in place.
I think the wires can be lifted out after removing the tape. I don't remember any cutting of the wires.
You might be able to lub the gears from the bottom, by removing the truck covers, as you would for replacing the wheel sets.
Good time to check for the cracked gear issue while your doing this.
Mike.
EDIT: Dr. Wayne posted, while I typed, about accessing the gears from the bottom of the trucks.
My You Tube
My P2K GP9s have those wheel covers, so I'd imagine your GP38s do, too. Be patient. It may take a bit of screwdriver or knife work to get under the cover plate to dislodge it.
Buy that tube of Labelle grease before you start. And you probably should clean out the mechanism and remove any old hardened grease before you put any more in.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
If you really want to remove the weight you will have to pry the plastic cover off the bottom of the fuel tank weight (This is the GP9):
LL_Proto_Geep by Edmund, on Flickr
That plastic fuel tank can be a bugger to peel free sometimes.
There are also two small screws just behind the coupler pockets, too. You can see them in the fourth photo here:
https://tcsdcc.com/installation/ho-scale/1404
Even after the screws have been removed I sometimes have to use a #17 X-acto blade to pry the weight off the painted frame.
Good luck, Ed
Hi Guys, thank you for all your help, suggestions and encouragement. I have taken it all in and persisted but to no avail. The Covers just do not seem willing to be sprung-off and I am nervous of breaking one (or something else) I found the best Pry-bar, for initial prising-up was my Stanley Bradawl, but I remained uncertain as to how far I could insert a Blade thereafter.
However, I will persist and not give up. I will have another go later. I am using my old faithful B/B GP38-2 as a test loco, whilst I finish-up my wiring (DC) and the P2k GP38-2 is just for confirming Isolation Tracks, Circuitry and Switches, etc.
Thank you, regards, Paul
Lazers I found the best Pry-bar, for initial prising-up was my Stanley Bradawl,
Ouch! You may want to rethink your tool of choice, Paul...
L-L_SD-50-truck by Edmund, on Flickr
Unless your Stanley Awl has a finer point then mine. On the right I show my smallest Wiha 1.5 mm slotted screwdriver. It will fit under the latch without causing too much "pry-action" and distort the clip.
L-L_SD-50-truck-clip by Edmund, on Flickr
I couldn't get a good angle for a photo but you would have to go in under the axle shown here.
Good Luck, Ed
Hi everyone, and thankyou for your replies.
After my earlier disapointment today with my B/B GP38-2, I turned my attention to another outstanding job, the Gear-Lub of my 2 No. P2K GP38-2's. I stated that I would return to this at a later date - and I have.
The Good news is that after re-visiting all of your replies, I succeeded in prising-off the offending Gear-casing, bottom Covers.
This still took some doing IMO and I still cannot help but be slightly dubious of the design. However, I checked then greased the Gears (which they did need) and oiled the Axle Bushes. Both Locos now run far smoother and quieter, than before.
The Bad news is that the very last Cover proved to be really difficult. I had done one end, with two scalpel blades keeping it 'open', the far side of the final end - ok, but the very last of all, the Clip snapped clean-off, without even trying.
So I am going to have to obtain a spare assembly from Walthers (I only hope my email isn't rejected as spam)
The Loco is re-assembled and running for the moment, but I like to have things as they should be, if at all possible.
Also, the Gear-train was to me - a very strange design. With all the Gears in-line like that. IMO, it is no wonder they suffer from cracking. Not withstanding the type of Plastic used, the Gears should be at least twice as thick as they are. Even though only for a Model, they are still subject to forces and loads acting upon them, lateral and radial.
When I removed the Covers, the whole Gearbox immediately tries to dismantle itself! Everything has to be held and pressed together to 'Snap-back' into the right place (I hope) This cannot help towards correct alignment of the Gears. Likewise the layout of the Screws securing the Body, Chassis and Casting. I get the impression of last-minute design-work.
Once again, thanks for all of your help, mission accomplished, regards Paul
LazersNot withstanding the type of Plastic used, the Gears should be at least twice as thick as they are. Even though only for a Model, they are still subject to forces and loads acting upon them, lateral and radial.
Sometimes the manufacturers do respond with design changes. (Hopefully for the better)
Witness the Walthers redesign of the Life-Like E6-7-8 in its most recent (for me, anyway) iteration:
Walthers_E7-gearcase by Edmund, on Flickr
Helical gears, almost double in width and (most of) the intermediate gears have bronze bearings! This is getting close to the sweet spot!
Walthers_E7-gearcase-near by Edmund, on Flickr
They still went stingy on the lube, though. That little skid-mark is all there was in there. It always pays to open 'er up and take a look.
These venerable L-L E units have gone through probably a dozen refinements over the last 25 years. I never had one with any kind of power-train failure that I recall. I have replaced some wobbly slip-joint drive shafting but otherwise mine are all pretty much running "as-delivered".
Regards, Ed
Once again, Thank you for your replies.
Somehow I've always prefferred Oil over Grease. You can apply a little - and more often.
Ed, those Gears certainly are nice and chunky. Looking at the Teeth Profile, I certainly would apply Grease to them, since there is a lot of surface contact there.
It was a bit of a downer, that last Cover breaking. The one before, I had got the knack to the extent that it sprung-off really easy and landed on the floor. So perhaps I was getting carried-away.
Paul
LazersSomehow I've always preferred Oil over Grease. You can apply a little - and more often.
When I was in my early teens I got hold of an 'audiophile' turntable for playing vinyl records. This had an enormous tapered and precisely-ground center shaft sitting on a ball bearing at the bottom. I carefully cleaned all the old caked lubricant off this, carefully oiled it, put on a record... and it slowly ran to a halt. Used a different and less viscous oil for less bearing drag... still ran to a halt. What it needed was green grease.
If you need lubricant with EP additives that stays in one place, like gear teeth, and you can shield it from picking up dust, grease is probably preferable. For bearings and shafts intended to minimize friction, one of the oils is probably preferable -- the shafts in these drives being examples.
Lazers Looking at the Teeth Profile, I certainly would apply Grease to them, since there is a lot of surface contact there.
For nearly all the slow-turning truck and worm gears I use Labelle #106.
https://labelle-lubricants.com/shop/labelle-106-grease-with-ptfe/
Some of the brass engines I have are fitted with open gearcases. The Labelle seems to cling better without slinging off. Yes, as Overmod mentions, an open gearcase is prone to picking up cat hair and ballast but I have to be a little more vigilant about keeping the gears clean.
I'm not sure which Proto 2000 GP38-2 this is, but either the back of some of the Proto 2000 boxes or the instructions state that the shaft bearings are anisotropic bronze bearings and should never under normal circumstances require lubricant. They actually impregnated the bronze bearings with graphite if I recall correctly. Likewise, if gears are delrin they are considered to be "self lubricating" because delrin is very slippery plastic.
So adding lubricant may be optional, may make things a little bit more quiet, but is technically not, according to the manufacturer, "required".
Some other manufacturers are stating that brand new engines produced today are lightly lubricated at the factory and should not require additional lubrication--but they do go ahead and suggest occasionally lubricating the bearing plates used for power pickup that the axle ends turn in.
The Bowser technician who is responsible for some of their product design recently explained to me that lubrication of the worm shaft bearings is not necessary as the lubricant from the worm actually works its way through the shaft bearings. He was applying a little Labelle oil to the worm at the top of the gear tower, and he did apply a drop of oil to motor bearings.
Most modelers use way too much lubrication, and the excessive lubricant generally only attracts dirt that can result in excessive wear. If it doesn't squeak, I generally don't oil it (excepting said axle bearings).
John
PRR8259I'm not sure which Proto 2000 GP38-2 this is, but either the back of some of the Proto 2000 boxes or the instructions state that the shaft bearings are anisotropic bronze bearings and should never under normal circumstances require lubricant.
A twenty-year old, new-in-box Proto 2000 locomotive falls into the category of not normal circumstances, I would say.
Proto_gear-3 by Edmund, on Flickr
This FA-2 was still in its shrink wrap when I bought it. While giving it an initial test on DC I saw the current increase but the engine didn't move.
Proto_gear-5 by Edmund, on Flickr
Any locomotive that has sat in a warehouse or basement for more than five years should be stripped and every moving part evaluated.
In the case of many of the early runs of the Life-Like engines something reacted between the compounds in the lubricant and the alloys of the bearing and shaft material. Besides the green oxide there was a material that resembled varnish or shellac. It was amber in color, solid and acted just like a thread-locker or ACC glue would.
PRR8259The Bowser technician who is responsible for some of their product design recently explained to me that lubrication of the worm shaft bearings is not necessary as the lubricant from the worm actually works its way through the shaft bearings.
The last group of Bowser Alco Centuries I bought had grease oozing out of the axle ends.
IMG_5079_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Not exactly my idea of "sparingly applied".
Lastspikemike....or you could pop off the worm gear plastic covers and clean it out first which is what I did on the whiner.
I soaked my parts in some lacquer thinner or VM&P naptha, I forget which, then cleaned this off with some contact cleaner. (Belt & suspenders?)
Small amounts of lubricant afterward.
I have heard some Life-Like rebuilders mention the "peanut-butter" grease and I've come across this stuff, but not very often, and it isn't usually caked up like some have described.
Something in that L-L lube must be slightly acidic or at least reactive with the copper component in the bearing.