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Track corrosion from cat you-know-what

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  • Member since
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  • From: Shawnee Hill Country, IL
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Track corrosion from cat you-know-what
Posted by ShawneeHawk on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 1:11 PM

I've been hesitant to post this, but it's way past time to get some feedback on addressing the problem.  Before I get too much flak, it has been a rough few years.  My wife and life partner of almost 29 years was diagnosed with lymphoma, fought like crazy for 2 years, knocked it into remission twice, then passed after receiving a stem cell transplant that was supposed to "cure" it.  That was 3 years ago.  I have been in depression since, and have turned to my outdoor hobbies (hiking, canoeing, gardening) to cope.  I'm not looking for pity, but explaining what led up to this situation.  Earlier this year, I started to get back into my HO trains.  No permanent layout, just a 8 x 16 test loop with sidings that's been up for way too long.  We had a large box of 3 cases of brand new Peco code 83 flex track, and around 50 new turnouts.  We had one cat in the basement for mice, then she had kittens and they multiplied.  I was unable to catch around 4 of them.  Needless to say, they had found their way into my track box and peed.  This created a bluish green corrosion on the track.  Only around 6 of the turnouts were affected, but half of the flex track was.  My question is what is the most effective method of removing this corrosion?  My initial thought was a Bright Boy, but I want to avoid scratching the track up if I can help it.  I read in an earlier thread that white vinegar might work, but the search function on this forum does not seem to be what it used to.  Google also turned up little.

This could have been much worse.  My DCC equipment, locos, and rolling stock are all fine.  The cats are gone, except for the momma, who has always used the litter box.

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Gary

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 1:20 PM

Hi there. I would say it depends a lot on the condition of the track. I would start by rubbing it with alcohol and see if that works. It's the most gentle treatment, so that's why I would start there. If the corrosion is deeper, you might have to use something like Bright Boy or an extra fine sandpaper. You might have to go through a couple of grades to achieve that shiny look.

Simon

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 1:38 PM

I would find a long tray of some kind.

Go to Walgreens and buy about 10 containers of hydrogen peroxide.  It's cheap.

Soak the Flex track overnight and wipe the rails with a terry-cloth the next day.

That stuff was the only thing that took nicotine stains off my fingers when I smoked.  I don't have any experience or proof that this will work for your track but if it was my situation that is what I would try first.

 

I wish you the best of luck with that one GaryYes

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 1:51 PM

I got that same greenish patina on my nickle silver track from using MicroEngineering's liquid blackener or darkener - which I was hoping would match the deep brown of their pre-weathered flex track.  it does not.  There is no evidence that MicroEngineering is peddling kitten pee in a plastic bottle but there may be some similarities.  

The chemical means suggested by others for addressing the patina should be tried of course.  However since my track is laid and ballasted I am reluctant to introduce more liquid onto the roadbed.  I have a set of scratchbrushes -- almost like retractable pencils but with strands of brass, steel and fibreglass.  The brass is a softer metal than the nickle silver and thus I'd try that (a brass wire brush in a Dremel turns too fast and would likely melt whatever plastic nubbins hold the rail to the tie).

Dave Nelson

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 1:56 PM

Now that made perfect sense to me Mike!

I now would have to go along with that one and try vinegar in the tray and wipe the rails the next morningYes

 

 

TF

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 2:01 PM

This is turning out to be a Great Thread!

I'm thinking about capturing some cat pee in the Future to accelerate the weathering of things to achieve a quicker patinaLaugh

 

 

TF

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 2:15 PM

Lastspikemike

 

 
Track fiddler

This is turning out to be a Great Thread!

I'm thinking about capturing some cat pee in the Future to accelerate the weathering of things to achieve a quicker patinaLaugh

 

 

TF

 

 

 

May I recommend against capturing the actual cat. Obtaining just its pee would be a little easier.

 

 

LaughLaughLaugh

The ice is broken now.

Do I have to scare the cat first Mike before I tuck that 3 foot tray I was going to use to soak the track underneath the cat?

 

 

LaughTF

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 2:21 PM

Vinegar causes corrosion does it not? If you soak it for a period of time, you might want to try it with a small piece of track first.

Simon  

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 2:28 PM

But what if the cat didn't pee on the small piece of track?

My problem is I have a boat load of PECO Flex Track.

But I don't own any cats!

 

LaughLaughLaugh I'm sorry I just could not resist that one!

 

Please carry on with the thread as it is a good oneYes

 

 

 

WinkTF

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Posted by tatans on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 3:06 PM

Words that should be never used in the same sentence are: CATS  and  MODEL RAILROADING. why would people torture themselves?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 3:23 PM

GSA method for cleaning nickel silver:

https://www.gsa.gov/technical-procedures/general-method-cleaning-nickel-silver?Form_Load=88331

I think I would try the old baking-soda-and-toothpaste method after soaking the lengths in one of the recommended chemicals.  You can pick a more or less abrasive kind of paste, a soft or firm brush, and see if blasting soda (a coarser grit) has any advantage.

Rinse the track very carefully afterward; I'd dry it with a hair dryer on low heat, high air velocity.

And wrap it in 'packs' using something impervious to pee when you put it away again Wink

 

 

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Posted by Shock Control on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 3:51 PM

tatans
Words that should be never used in the same sentence are: CATS  and  MODEL RAILROADING. why would people torture themselves?

I set up an elaborate HO layout around the tree each holiday season.

During the season, every morning when I get up, I judiciously check the track for downed trees or telegraph poles resulting from any overnight kitty mishap.

One morning, a few Christmases ago, I had overdone it a little the night before, and didn't bother to check the track.  I started up the train and sat down.  Then I heard the sounds of a derailment.

Of all mornings not to check the track, one of the cats decided to throw up on the track.  The locomotive ploughed through it and derailed. 

Nothing like cleaning cat vomit off of your locomotive, with a hangover.

So to your point, I would say that "humans" and "model railroading" should not be used in the same sentence. Cats are just being cats. It's the humans who don't always know how to balance the two. Big Smile

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 6:45 PM

tatans

Words that should be never used in the same sentence are: CATS  and  MODEL RAILROADING. why would people torture themselves?

 

 

You speak wisely Tatans, ...Now you may run my Village!

 

Poor Gary my model railroad club host got talked into adopting this FARM CAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do I have to say anymore.  I don't think I do but I will anyway. 

 

40 Years of a love of passion Dreamland World got destroyed in less than a week

Since the covid I haven't been to my Railroad Club for a long time.

There's a lot of work to do over there when I return I'll tell you.

Making stuff new is a lot funner than repairing things. 

 

And thinking about things.  I don't ever recall any one of my six dogs I owned throughout my life jumping up on the kitchen table let alone the train layout

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by Pruitt on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM

Urine will corrode almost any metal.

When I was at Boeing, we would have to manufacture replacement structural parts that went under the lavatories for many airliners that were over 10-15 years old. Sometimes people "miss" the toilet and some urine gets on the floor. It would seep down through the cracks between the wall and floor and get onto the structural aluminum. While the airlines would do a good job of cleaning the lavs, the urine would remain on the structure underneath.

Over years of time, the constantly-replenished urine would eat through the (usually) zinc chromate primer and begin to erode away the aluminum itself. In extreme cases, floor supports would wind up looking like those older steel-bodied cars that had been on salted roads for years - you could see right through the thinner sections!

So - cat urine is somewhat acidic (Ph 6.3-6.6 usually). To stop the corrosion, soak it in a baking soda / water solution (Ph of about 8) for a day or two (Do NOT use vinegar, as it, like the cat urine, is acidic, though much more so - Ph about 2.5. Do not expect to neutralize one acid with another acid). Then remove the track, rinse thoroughly with water and allow to dry. Use the brass brushes Dave Nelson suggested to clean the loose corrosion away. The brass bristles will also polish the rails, and you can enhance this using Comet or other abrasive cleaner. Final polish the railhead using a brite boy or fine grit sandpaper.

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Posted by ShawneeHawk on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 8:13 PM

Thanks for the responses. I'm getting some helpful tips, as well as some much needed humor!

Observations: the corrosion is worse on some pieces than others, and there appears to be some mouse pee splattered in as well, but the track looks salvageable. I did experiment with vinegar rubbed in with a cloth on one of the worst pieces of flex track, and on one of the turnouts. It seems to be working. The hardest place to get to is where the lower sides of the rails meet the ties. I have worked on those areas with an old toothbrush. I used 91% alcohol on one area, and the vinegar seems to be working better on the cat urine. I wiped the ties and rails with cloth after application, but did not think about rinsing. The mouse pee is a little more tarry, and neither method is removing it well. Cats and mice - two of the pleasures of living on a farm.

I may try the baking soda soak next, but need to find a pan long enough. Thanks for the responses and keep them coming, I really appreciate them!

Gary

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Posted by mvlandsw on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 11:49 PM

You can make a long pan from PVC pipe with pipe caps on both ends. Glue the cap on one end and keep the other end removable. You can cut the pipe in half length wise if you want an open pan with the caps glued on both ends.

Mark

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Posted by Southgate 2 on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 3:47 AM

Shock Control

 

Of all mornings not to check the track, one of the cats decided to throw up on the track.  The locomotive ploughed through it and derailed. 

Nothing like cleaning cat vomit off of your locomotive, with a hangover.

 

I didn't know cat vomit could give a locomotive a hangover

Dan

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 7:54 AM

I've always used baking soda to take the acid induced corrosion off of metal battery posts/cables.

- Douglas

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Posted by Shock Control on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 9:02 AM

Southgate 2
I didn't know cat vomit could give a locomotive a hangover

Dan

Commas serve a function. Yes

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Posted by Pruitt on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 12:25 PM

Lastspikemike
Urine should be alkaline...

Actually, normal urine in cats is slightly acidic. I looked it up on the internet, so that's a truth written in stone. Confused

uh-huh

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Posted by ShawneeHawk on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 12:45 PM

I continue to appreciate the responses. One thing I noted this morning on the piece of flex track that I worked on is that the corrosion near the ties is still there, although improved. This evening, I will work with baking soda and rinsing some. The turnout came clean, if you will pardon the pun.

Please note that the entire track that was affected is not corroded. On some pieces, the corrosion is only for a few inches; on others a foot or more. I do realize this will take me some time to fix, but hey, I need something to keep me off the streets.

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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 2:18 PM

The soda will certainly help remove the odor. Mouse caca leaves such an awfull smell! I suppose the cats were not very good at catching mice.

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Posted by oldline1 on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 2:34 PM

Gary,

I have no ideas on what to do or how to take care of the track but just wanted to express my sympathy for the loss of your wife and the awful effects to you and the family. I, too, lost my wife 3 years ago to lung cancer. Being married for 46 years and suddenly being alone has been hard to handle and I feel for you. All my best.

oldline1

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Posted by ShawneeHawk on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 9:38 PM
No work on the track this evening. Staring at electronic medical records and reviewing charts all day at work can have this effect on me sometimes. I did locate the retractable brass brushes that Dave Nelson recommended on Amazon. Despite being a Prime customer, they won't be here until after Christmas sometime. That's ok. I have other things to do on the trains, and this track rescue project isn't going to get done in a few nights. Thanks, and I will continue to post progress.
  • Member since
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Posted by ShawneeHawk on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 9:48 PM

snjroy

The soda will certainly help remove the odor. Mouse caca leaves such an awfull smell! I suppose the cats were not very good at catching mice.

 

Actually, some of my cats are pretty good mousers.  After I discovered the cat urine problem in the basement, I relocated the track into the spare bedroom.  The upstairs house cats (who do use their litter boxes) are not allowed in this room, as I also keep my self-inflating camping matresses in there, as well as the cat food.  Turns out this room is the main mouse hangout.  Country living: I can't win.  The mouse problem is minimal compared to what the cats in the basement did, but I am declaring total war on the little pests.  I also need to invest in a housekeeper, as I cannot keep up with everything.

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Posted by ShawneeHawk on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 9:52 PM

oldline1

Gary,

I have no ideas on what to do or how to take care of the track but just wanted to express my sympathy for the loss of your wife and the awful effects to you and the family. I, too, lost my wife 3 years ago to lung cancer. Being married for 46 years and suddenly being alone has been hard to handle and I feel for you. All my best.

oldline1

 

oldline1, I really appreciate your post, and feel for you as well.  Besides my wife, cancer took my dad, his sister, my maternal uncle, and several close friends.  I hate cancer with a passion.  My best to you, too.

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Posted by Alantrains on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 11:49 PM

Certainly is a great thread. I used some very old pva glue to glue down my ballast. The pva had turned alkaline. The day after ballasting, I noticed some of the rails had developed a  blue green copper oxide (copper sulphate) on them. After some research, I  made up a solution of baking soda and used a small brush to paint onto the copper sulphated rails. I focussed on switch rails of turnouts which all came good. There are still a few places that I  need to fix but all the turnouts and joins are clean.

Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)

 

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Posted by ShawneeHawk on Friday, December 18, 2020 1:30 PM

So I will definitely be trying the baking soda. The question now is what is the proper ratio of baking soda mixed with water? My brass bristles won't be here for around another week.

Thanks, Gary

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, December 18, 2020 1:39 PM

ShawneeHawk
The question now is what is the proper ratio of baking soda mixed with water?

I mix it to a paste about the consistency of toothpaste, and apply it to the brush like toothpaste.  The idea is to use it as an abrasive as well as a chemical.  You can mix a bit more 'liquidy' and apply with a French's-mustard-bottle nozzle or equivalent if that's more convenient.  

Continue to brush as you rinse.  Be sure there is no residue of anything left on the track, especially between the rails and tie strip, by the time you're done agitating.

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Posted by Alantrains on Sunday, December 20, 2020 9:17 PM

Thanks for that lastspikemike.I might try some more baking soda solution to halt any more corrosion.

Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)

 

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