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Obscure scales/older layout designs for articles

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  • Member since
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Posted by BATMAN on Friday, December 11, 2020 12:41 PM

emdmike
An idea for MR to hunt down for future articles.  How about layouts or defunt scales still in use today.

Good idea.

I had/have Lone Star Treble O stuff when I was a kid and loved it. I had/have enough to fill a 5' x 10' sheet and ran the thing constantly. The bakelite has deteriorated to the point it is none operable but an article on it and other antiques would be interesting.

Lone Star (England) Baldwin 0-8-0

Lone Star (England) EMD F7A

The wife searches worldwide auctions and often points out the old trains being offered. It would be interesting to see some writings on this old stuff.

Brent

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, December 11, 2020 11:29 AM

As has been noted in some books on the history of model railroading in the US, it's interesting to wonder what our hobby might be like if Lionel had decided to continue making OO 4mm trains after WW2, instead of just doing O - three rail. OO might be the no.1 scale here today if they had.

Stix
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Posted by emdmike on Friday, December 11, 2020 1:02 AM

Here is a pic of my Lionel set around the tree this year.  You can see the black Bakelite roadbed track, kind of like we see now from various companies in plastic.  But back then Bakelite was the plastic revolution of the 1930's.  But the roadbed was very brittle as it aged, easily cracked if fastened down to tight or dropped.  Some has warped badly.  This is very true with the 2 rail Lionel OO track, most is badly warped and unusable.  What is still flat or close enough to fasten down is very hard to find and very expensive.  For 3 rail Lionel track, I have paid $8-10 dollers a section and seen stuff for up to $25 a section.  A pair of switches can run $250 to $600 per pair!   Lionel never did switches for the 2 rail line other than some prototypes that surfaced in a pvt collection years ago.  The stoppage for WWII put an end to the line and anything more from big L in OO.   

Here is the loop of track I do have, its the 1938 version and will not mate with the track made from 1939 thru 1942, the connections between each piece are different.  No switches were made for this early track.  

Here is my OO3 Hudson(converted to 3 rail power pickup) posed with the 1938 freight consist

And Finally, here is a video link to my proper 1938 first year set running under the tree before I decorated the tree, music from GRP Christmas Collection. 

 

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

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Posted by emdmike on Friday, December 11, 2020 12:42 AM

Lionel's OO is on correct gauge track, which now is worth the price of gold due to its fragle Bakelite roadbed that is prone to warp as well.  I have some Lionel OO that is 3 rail, and would love to build a nice little 3x8 double track layout with crossovers and a couple industires. But the extreme high cost of track has kept that just a dream.  I have a small loop of original Lionel track that U used around our small Christmas tree with my 1938 first year set running on it.  Lots of east coast layouts in both American OO on proper track and outside 3rd rail O gauge back in the 1930s and up into the 60's.  Very large clubs and some nice home layouts.  Granted the original builders would be long gone now, but some layout or parts of the endure, same for some clubs.  There were several options for proper OO track back then, not just Lionel.  In the 2 rail side you had Midlen, True Scale and Scale Craft.  I think Lionel was the only 3 rail but one could hand lay the third rail on 2 rail track.   Hand laid track was much more common back then than we see today due to the lack of RTR options in track back then.  I used to have some Tru-scale OO track in 2 rail, but the radius was larger than my small layout space allows.  I need the original 3 rail Lionel or I will have to use On3 flex track and go the 2 rail route for my layout.  On3 is the same rail gauge as proper OO, just the tie spacing and length are off.  British OO runs on track that is "narrow" in gauge by using HO track, but they are made to 1:76th scale instead of 1:87th.     Mike

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, December 10, 2020 4:39 PM

emdmike
I am trying to find enough of the Lionel sectional 3 rail track and 6 switches to do a 3x8 layout, but not having much luck

Don't know if we're talking about the same stuff, but when our club received donations with Lionel stuff, we'd almot have to throw away the track.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, December 10, 2020 4:34 PM

NittanyLion

There's been at least one OO layout in MRP or GMR in the last couple years.

 

Hintock Magna, OO proportion, HO gauge track, MR Planning, 2011.

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, December 10, 2020 4:14 PM

emdmike
Or American OO, not the modern UK stuff on HO track but true to scale/gauge OO(3 or 2 rail as both was used).

I don't know how many US model railroads back then were built that way - 4mm OO scale using 'correct' OO gauge track, or how many would just use HO track? I think Lionel's pre-war OO gauge line used HO gauge track. I know some folks did it, but they were a minority of a minority.

 

Stix
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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, December 10, 2020 1:11 PM

There's been at least one OO layout in MRP or GMR in the last couple years.

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Posted by emdmike on Thursday, December 10, 2020 1:05 PM

The UK has a few unique gauges like OO9 and EM.  I was thinking of old school USA layouts when I was typing that up.  Stuff like American OO running on 3/4 gauge track, outside 3rd rail O scale, which was very popular gauge prior to WWII and right afterwards, especially some of the large east coast clubs.  I know of one guy that posts on youtube and runs a blog that has an American OO layout, 2 rail using On3 flex track and turnouts. I am trying to find enough of the Lionel sectional 3 rail track and 6 switches to do a 3x8 layout, but not having much luck at that and when I do find it, talk about pricey!!!  I swear there are collectors out there sitting on this track and doing nothing with it.  Has to be more out there than I see come up for sale.  I have been around, but over on the garden railways forum and Classic Toy Trains.  The scale likeness of OO is about as close to "scale" as I get these days.   Mike the Aspie

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Posted by NorthBrit on Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:10 AM

I do not know if EM Gauge is in  the USA,  but here is Mike Sharman's wonderful  (imo) Victorian Layout including Broad Gauge.

 

 

David

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:03 AM

Hey Mike, haven't seen you around in a while. Nice to have you back.

I have only seen one weird scale layout in my lifetimne, and it was not that strange. It was an OO scale American prototype layout. Small, probably 4 foot by 6 foot was all.

I wonder how many of these are left. I am sure that OO layout is long gone. The last I saw it was in the 1990s.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Obscure scales/older layout designs for articles
Posted by emdmike on Thursday, December 10, 2020 10:56 AM

An idea for MR to hunt down for future articles.  How about layouts or defunt scales still in use today.  Like O scale 2 rail with outside 3rd rail power pick as was very common back pre WWII and right after the war.   Or American OO, not the modern UK stuff on HO track but true to scale/gauge OO(3 or 2 rail as both was used).  Can be home or club layouts, but the important part is still in use.  Its something different than what has been seen in print in decades.  Might even open a few modern/younger modelers eyes to what can be done that isnt RTR out of a box.  I look thru old black and white pics of layouts build pre WWII and its amazing what could be done with so little.  Just using common materials and some modeling skill.    There has to be some of these relecs still in use, quietly behind the modern era scenes.  Time to shine the light on them before they to pass into history as so many of these fantistic layouts already have.   Mikie

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

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