Currently, Walthers has broken up their HO scale product lines into the Trainline, Mainline, and Proto lines. However when at hobby shops I see a wealth of other product lines. They also seem to be different depending if the piece of equipment is a freight car, passenger car, or locomotive. Here are the ones I am confused upon
Walthers Proto 1000/2000:Appears to be the forerunner of WalthersProto locomotives, I remember catalogs from around 2013 featuring Proto 2000 stuff. As far as I know they were upgraded Life-Like Proto units and then became their own brand.
Walthers HO:In tan boxes, they simply were labled "Walthers HO". A lot of their passenger cars were in these boxes before the Proto switch and generally have the same quality. I've also seen freight cars in these boxes. Look like this:
But this is where it gets confusing. There seem to be sub-lines of the Walthers HO brand labled "GoldLine" and "Platinum Line". The latter seems to be the WalthersProto forerunner for rolling stock with factory installed grab irons, scale couplers, etc. GoldLine seems to be a lot like WalthersMainline.
If these two lines exist, where does the plain "Walthers HO" stand in quality. As far as I can see all 3 of these lines existed at one time, so where do each of them stand. The reason I'm asking this is because I am looking on eBay for some autoracks and am finding them from these 3 different lines.
Yes it is confusing and the older the item the more it is difficult to fit in with their current system. For example for a while they had kits but also classic kits.
I think at least some of the Proto1000 rolling stock was the better items in the LifeLike tooling they acquired when they bought LifeLike. the Thrall all-door boxcar is an example. They did improve the model. There was pure trainset level stuff from LifeLike that they did not release in Proto1000 - stuff that LifeLike had acquired from Varney for example.
Here is how they explained it, or tried to explain it, in the 2010 catalog
Platinum Line: fully assembled RTR, factory installed grab irons and details, metal RP25 wheels, PriotoMax couplers, superb paint and lettering. Undecorated models however needed customer installed grab irons and details which were supplied. The cabooses had detailed interiors. So a platinum line PS2-CD covered hopper was $34.98. A caboose was $49.98.
Gold Line. RTR. metal wheelsets. superb paint and lettering, ProtoMax couplers. Modeler installed grab irons supplied with molded starter points. Better operation, enhanced appearance (better and enhanced from what is not made clear). A Trinity covered hopper was $34.98, but an Evans covered hopper was $29.98. So it seems the major difference was factory intalled grabs and details.
Proto2000. Scale size handrails and grab irons (no mention of who installs), correct weight, correct trucks, metal wheels, ProtoMax couplers. A Proto2000 covered hopper was $34.98. I think it migth have been LifeLike P2K kit tooling originally.
Proto1000 did not exist then for rolling stock but following the distinction for locomotives, less separately applied detail, and no prototype specific detail, but a good drive train and solid mechanism.
Trainline. RTR in "realistic paint schemes." Quality construction features. Body mounted couplers. I think much of it was acquired tooling, for example a firefighting tank car might have been part of the Cox trainset line at one time. Hopper car was $13.98. Probably plastic wheels but "NEW" was RP25 metal wheels. And some photos showed horn hook couplers, other knuckle couplers.
The Mainline line did not exist then. I think they wanted an in-between from Trainline and the expensive upper end models.
Dave Nelson
Yea, that makes more sense.
I know the P2K stuff was merged into Proto a while ago, but then I am right and Platinum line is essentially the older Walthers Proto, and it seems that the P2K rolling stock would have went into the Proto line as well since they were around the same.
GoldLine along with probably the P1K locomotives became Mainline, and the regular Walthers HO looks like it had a wide variety of stuff that is now both Proto and Mainline. I think they added Platinum Line and Gold Line to differentiate better since there seems to be varying levels of quality in the standard Walthers HO line.
dknelson Proto1000 did not exist then for rolling stock but following the distinction for locomotives, less separately applied detail, and no prototype specific detail, but a good drive train and solid mechanism.
Yes it did, for ex- Life Like equipment with that branding. (Canadian newsprint boxcars and X72 boxcars.)
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Let's follow the evolution:
The plain "Walthers HO" in the red/blue/tan box was the standard/only line of cars "back in the day". Plastic wheels, mostly assembled but having modeler applied wire grabs (maybe - not all older models even had any separately applied parts) and maybe some extra plastic detail pieces to install as well.
The same model might be upgraded to Gold Line with factory supplied metal wheels, the plastic bits installed, but wire grabs/railings still supplied in a little bag and the modeler had to drill an install those themselves.
Platinum Line installs all the wire bits from the factory on the same Gold Line model.
(This is not conjecture; I have examples of the exact same model with those different brand labels over the years, with that "upgrade path" to the detail and price sticker.)
Proto1000 and Proto2000 brands were acquired from LikeLike. Basically now Proto2000 and Platinum Line are both just folded into "Walthers Proto". The 1000, 2000 and Platinum and Gold lines are all extinct from current production. Anything left Gold Line got upgraded to Platinum/Proto will all bits factory installed. Anything left that doesn't fit into the current Proto line would go to Mainline. Trainline is toy train set level equipment.
cv_acr dknelson Proto1000 did not exist then for rolling stock but following the distinction for locomotives, less separately applied detail, and no prototype specific detail, but a good drive train and solid mechanism. Yes it did, for ex- Life Like equipment with that branding. (Canadian newsprint boxcars and X72 boxcars.)
Wasn't there also a 50 ton USRA gondola?
Gary
garyaWasn't there also a 50 ton USRA gondola?
I have two of the Walthers 50 ton USRA gondolas. They were in the "Gold Line", and are 46 feet long.
These are not ex-Life-Like models. I don't know if they are Walthers originals or if they originated elsewhere.
I "upgraded" mine with Tichy grab irons, but they look kind of bulky in photographs.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 garya Wasn't there also a 50 ton USRA gondola? I have two of the Walthers 50 ton USRA gondolas. They were in the "Gold Line", and are 46 feet long. These are not ex-Life-Like models. I don't know if they are Walthers originals or if they originated elsewhere.
garya Wasn't there also a 50 ton USRA gondola?
Pretty sure those are Walthers original.
Simple solution - buy what looks good to you when it's offered for a price you like, and not worry about which line it is.
The Walthers Trainline FAs I have, from before they purchased Life Like, may be a little lacking on detail (they are the old Train Miniature tooling), but the drive is fantastic. Every bit as smooth a runner as locos costing 3-4x as much. The missing grabs and such - those can be easily installed. I also have one of the Trainline X29 boxcars, that too is old Train Miniature. Just as good as Athearn Blue Box, plus it came with metal wheelsets.
Sure, I have fancier stuff as well, a few Kadee cars, a small fleet of P2K tank cars (built from the kits Life Like offered, prior to Walthers), a few other P2K kit cars. But mixed all together in a train, nothing really stands out as being better or worse.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Yes, thank you.
The main reason I was concerned about these different brands is that most RTR autoracks,coil cars,and tank cars are generally expensive and I was wondering where the different Walthers ones stood, since I saw so many different product lines for them. This will help a lot so I know what to get. In general I like to stick to kits for boxcars, hoppers and such (because kits are just more fun) but some cars I'd like better as RTR models seemed too expensive, especially the newer models. Now that I know where the Goldline/Platinum Line/Regular Walthers HO line equipment stands I can choose my equipment wisely.
The labelling can get confusing. About 30 years ago, several model manufacturers decided to offer upgraded, more realistic model lines. For Bachmann, this was their Spectrum line. For Life-Like, it was Proto 2000. They later created Proto 1000, which was not quite as good as their Proto 2000 models, but were still a lot better than their "train set" level products. A bit later, Athearn created the Genesis line.
Walthers eventually bought the Life-Like train line, and began using the Proto name for both old LL products and some new products, along with using their own new labels, and moving products from one label to another. Back in the 1980's Walthers had bought the Train Miniature line, and have off and on produced versions of the old TM steam-era freight cars under the Walthers name.
Similarly, Athearn bought Model Die Casting and their Roundhouse line, and eventually moved things around so some long-time Athearn "blue box" products are now labelled Roundhouse products, along with products originally made by MDC/Roundhouse.
dknelson
I was referring to the 2010 Walthers catalog. Where in the 2010 Walthers catalog are those Proto1000 freight cars you refer to?
rrinker The Walthers Trainline FAs I have, from before they purchased Life Like, may be a little lacking on detail (they are the old Train Miniature tooling), but the drive is fantastic.
I have two of these Walthers FAs. They were very inexpensive, and run very well. I havve painted the bodies, and the necessary detail to be added is not very much.
I saw one on eBay for like $15. Since I had (prior to the MR DVD set) a good collection of MR issues, I found out which one they did a review of it in, and I had that issue. When I saw that as tested, it started and ran on pure DC at a mere .5 smph, I immediately bid on it. I eneded up finding 2 more, but then I had duplicate numbers so I sold one to a local modeler - we met in a local restaurant parking lot and it felt like we were doing some sort of illegal transaction.
dknelson cv_acr dknelson Proto1000 did not exist then for rolling stock but following the distinction for locomotives, less separately applied detail, and no prototype specific detail, but a good drive train and solid mechanism. Yes it did, for ex- Life Like equipment with that branding. (Canadian newsprint boxcars and X72 boxcars.) I was referring to the 2010 Walthers catalog. Where in the 2010 Walthers catalog are those Proto1000 freight cars you refer to? Dave Nelson
dknelson I was referring to the 2010 Walthers catalog. Where in the 2010 Walthers catalog are those Proto1000 freight cars you refer to? Dave Nelson
I don't have any Walthers catalog from any year. I do have several of the newsprint boxcars with Proto1000 branding and a small "by Walthers" on the box end from after the Walthers-LifeLike acquisition. I don't know what year these were made anymore.
The box for mine says Proto 1000. Here's a bad pic:
Still listed at Walthers (as discontinued): https://www.walthers.com/proto-1000-usra-50-ton-drop-bottom-composite-gondola-ready-to-run-st-louis-san-fransisco-85825
I also bought a Proto 1000 set and it came with a Gon, but nowhere near as nice.
I can only say for Walthers HO and Walthers Trainline (I only have the two kinds), but as far as I know, Walthers HO has better quality than Walthers Trainline. I have a few Walthers HO hopper cars (UP) and Walthers Trainline boxcars/stock cars. Walthers HO seems to be better detailed, although it seems to be older than Walthers HO. Also, Walthers HO seems to be made of a harder plastic than Walthers Trainline. In addition to that, Walthers HO seems to have a matt finish, while Walthers Trainline seems to have a glossier finish. But again, it's just my own insight. I hope this helped
I believe the Walthers Trainline stuff is mainly made up from Life-Like's old "train set grade" (that is, not Proto 2000 or 1000) pieces. Walthers Mainline appears to be mainly things Walthers either originally created in the past, like the SW-1 and bay window caboose, or that have been in their line for a long time like the ARA boxcars, which I believe are based on the old Train Miniature line that Walthers bought in the 1980's.