hon30critter I believe strongly that we should acknowledge new comers to the forums, and we should also acknowledge those members who have been around for a while but are only making their first post. Even if we don't have the answers to their questions, it is only polite let them know that their post has been read. As far as giving 'watch making' instructions to someone who is only asking for the time, I have been guilty of that in the past. However, if the situation that they are asking about can be complex, and there are several potential things that should be taken into consideration, I see nothing wrong with giving a detailed answer. Keep in mind that many new comers don't know what questions to ask. I also try to frame my comments in such a manner that the OP doesn't think I am talking down to them in the event that they are experienced modellers. In addition, I try to make sure that I phrase my comments so that they are perceived as suggestions as opposed to being 'set in stone'. Cheers!! Dave
I believe strongly that we should acknowledge new comers to the forums, and we should also acknowledge those members who have been around for a while but are only making their first post. Even if we don't have the answers to their questions, it is only polite let them know that their post has been read.
As far as giving 'watch making' instructions to someone who is only asking for the time, I have been guilty of that in the past. However, if the situation that they are asking about can be complex, and there are several potential things that should be taken into consideration, I see nothing wrong with giving a detailed answer. Keep in mind that many new comers don't know what questions to ask.
I also try to frame my comments in such a manner that the OP doesn't think I am talking down to them in the event that they are experienced modellers. In addition, I try to make sure that I phrase my comments so that they are perceived as suggestions as opposed to being 'set in stone'.
Cheers!!
Dave
Simon
hon30critterHowever, if the situation that they are asking about can be complex, and there are several potential things that should be taken into consideration, I see nothing wrong with giving a detailed answer.
I think a big problem, that there is no solution for, is that newbies sometimes ask questions with 1,000 different answers...
1) What era should I model?
2) What should I buy as my first locomotive?
3) Who makes the best HO scale track?
From this starting point, they will never get an answer that they are looking for, but there will be four pages of responses.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Overmod TL;DR
This does not effect me. I read all the long posts. I skip over most of the short ones.
The long posts usually have the best information.
UNCLEBUTCH I got about half way tru ,and realize that I no longer had a clue what you where talking about. You proved my point
Your points about not causing shock or 'information overload' to newbies are well-taken. As is avoiding giving more context if the situation doesn't warrant it, particularly if it involves 'showing off' or interjecting a personal view or opinion that doesn't concern the question.
There's a problem, though, in taking the same TL;DR attitude towards any long post, or any careful discussion of details. Perhaps it would be better to assume no new people care about more than a quick yes or no to what bothers them, but there are also cases where simple answers don't get the job done, or don't let the OP 'fish for himself' the next time.
About the wrong information and subsequent activity, I have no sympathy -- but no excuse either. Other than to note most of us try to be a supportive community here, and respect what other people do and don't want out of the hobby.
Of course, the 'right' time for a watchmaking thread is when someone asks 'why does my Hamilton consistently run half a minute slow dial-down' rather than just what time it happens to be. More than a few new posts are really in this category; the one regarding the Athearn UP 800 decoder probably was, and the one about the two broken engine-to-tender harness was as asked... note how long, and with how many false starts, it took even to get sensible answers to what a solution needed to be.
1. A lot of newbies never acknowledge replies and often vanish from the forum.
When a new member posts his first entry to the forums... nothing happens. The post goes away awaiting moderator review and he does not get an email from Kalmbach Media explaining the delay. The vanishing after one post is to be expected with these circumstances.
2. Often there is no question to be answered.
In this case, I simply say to the newbie.
3. There may be a woeful lack of information needed to answer the question.
Then I say and ask for more information.
4. The initial post may be asking for someone else to do the research, draw up a track plan, or simply speculate about what is being asked.
OK, In this case I do not reply.
-Keivn
Sometimes, not answering a Q with detailed and confusing answer is better than giving a wrong response. I agree that many OPs post and disappear. Sad. Having an OP ask about a specific technique is akin to me asking engineers how to make a souffle from scratch.
Moderators: can we pls provide a sticky of online tools, webpages, books, etc. to read to help new folks? This ensures they stay in the hobby without feeling overwhelmed. Just an idea.
snjroy Ok, so I "answered" one to get the ball rolling. It's not a particularly creative answer, but it will bump it up the list. I think we should make an effort to help out. I think it's implied in the word "community"... I do want to mention that some questions are in fact so specialized that it's just probably better not to provide an answer. But it would be nice of us to suggest where they can find the information. Or just plain say we don't know but welcome them to the forum anyway... Simon
Ok, so I "answered" one to get the ball rolling. It's not a particularly creative answer, but it will bump it up the list. I think we should make an effort to help out. I think it's implied in the word "community"...
I do want to mention that some questions are in fact so specialized that it's just probably better not to provide an answer. But it would be nice of us to suggest where they can find the information. Or just plain say we don't know but welcome them to the forum anyway...
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain I must confess, I usually look at the screen name (avatar) first, then the date that the OP joined the forum, then the number of posts before deciding whether to answer or not. I am always reluctant to respond to newbie, particulary if it is his first post. Why, you ask? Well, a number of reasons. 1. A lot of newbies never acknowledge replies and often vanish from the forum. 2. Often there is no question to be answered. 3. There may be a woeful lack of information needed to answer the question. 4. The initial post may be asking for someone else to do the research, draw up a track plan, or simply speculate about what is being asked. Rich
I must confess, I usually look at the screen name (avatar) first, then the date that the OP joined the forum, then the number of posts before deciding whether to answer or not.
I am always reluctant to respond to newbie, particulary if it is his first post.
Why, you ask? Well, a number of reasons.
No 1 why do you think that is ?
No 2 very true
No3 true; but should we not ask them
No4 VERY VERY true. I didn't sign up to baby sit
******************
As to No. 1, assuming that the replies are not belligerent or condescending, I think that at least some newbies get the answer to their question and never again return to the forum. I have seen that happen more than once.
As to No. 3, yes, we should ask them but somewhat often they don't answer, at least not fully, and then, poof, Number 1 occurs - - they exit the forum. So, I often ignore newbies and leave it up to more patient members. Yeah, I know, shame on me.
rrinker Well, truth be told, there's seldom just a yes/no answer. Even thiungs that can be verified by math and various physical rules, like "is a 1K resistor right for an LED headlight on DCC" Simple answer - yes, because you will never blow one up using a 1K. BUT - with modern LEDs, and often with the SMD types (epecially if the OP doesn't menton what type of LEDs are being used - need more information) are WAY too bight even though the 1K is 'safe' from an electronic point of view. Or, "Does the XYZ 2-6-6-4 run through 28" radius curves". XYZ may state on their web side that 24" is the minimum it can handle, which infers 28" should be fine. But what's the wuality of the 28" curve? Are there kings? Elevation changes? There are many reasons why a loco that is claimed to work on one radius, and can be shown by the manbufacturer to indeed work on said radius, derails on a wider radius which, logically, it should handle with ease since it's bigger than the demonstrated minimum. Information overload? Well, this isn;t exactly a simple hobby. While not overwhelming a newbie is a good thing, not fully reasoning out WHY an answer isn't quite so simple is important too. Cheap train sets in the 70's probably drive as many out of the hobby as it attracted to it, with track coming apart and contant derailments. It's important to point out tried and true methods for doing better than slapping down some sectional track and hoping it works. A train that runs, and does so reliable, is more likely to retain interest than one that can't even make one lap around the layout without jumping the track. That doesn't mean telling the newbie to trash the Life Like trainset junk and buy a $1000 brass loco (given that even the best brass can be finnicky to get running just right - that would probably be an even quicker turnoff - spend all that money and it STILL won't stay on the track), but there are plenty of hints and tips to make a much better operating layout with minimal extra expenditure. One of the most important things is knowing what you want - what sort of railroad you want to build, what your interests are, etc. Pointing this out and gettign the newbie to think about those things isn't trying to overwhelm them, it's trying to help them get the most out of the hobby based on what they personally are interested in. No, I am not a writer, plus this is the internet. Things don't always come out the way you intended, and it can be hard to tell if someone is writing with the attitude of "oh what a moron" or "I'm seriously trying to help". All I can say is, if I think someone is being a moron, it will either be VERY obvious, or I just won't reply at all. Note that me not replying doesn't mean your question is stupid, others may have already answered it, or it's not something I know much about. My #1 pet peeve is stupid people, but not knowing the answer to something and asking others does not mean you are stupid. On the contrary - it means you ware willing to learn. And those who are willing to learn instead of just expect spoon-fed answers jump to the top of my list every time. --Randy
Well, truth be told, there's seldom just a yes/no answer. Even thiungs that can be verified by math and various physical rules, like "is a 1K resistor right for an LED headlight on DCC"
Simple answer - yes, because you will never blow one up using a 1K. BUT - with modern LEDs, and often with the SMD types (epecially if the OP doesn't menton what type of LEDs are being used - need more information) are WAY too bight even though the 1K is 'safe' from an electronic point of view.
Or, "Does the XYZ 2-6-6-4 run through 28" radius curves". XYZ may state on their web side that 24" is the minimum it can handle, which infers 28" should be fine. But what's the wuality of the 28" curve? Are there kings? Elevation changes? There are many reasons why a loco that is claimed to work on one radius, and can be shown by the manbufacturer to indeed work on said radius, derails on a wider radius which, logically, it should handle with ease since it's bigger than the demonstrated minimum.
Information overload? Well, this isn;t exactly a simple hobby. While not overwhelming a newbie is a good thing, not fully reasoning out WHY an answer isn't quite so simple is important too. Cheap train sets in the 70's probably drive as many out of the hobby as it attracted to it, with track coming apart and contant derailments. It's important to point out tried and true methods for doing better than slapping down some sectional track and hoping it works. A train that runs, and does so reliable, is more likely to retain interest than one that can't even make one lap around the layout without jumping the track. That doesn't mean telling the newbie to trash the Life Like trainset junk and buy a $1000 brass loco (given that even the best brass can be finnicky to get running just right - that would probably be an even quicker turnoff - spend all that money and it STILL won't stay on the track), but there are plenty of hints and tips to make a much better operating layout with minimal extra expenditure.
One of the most important things is knowing what you want - what sort of railroad you want to build, what your interests are, etc. Pointing this out and gettign the newbie to think about those things isn't trying to overwhelm them, it's trying to help them get the most out of the hobby based on what they personally are interested in.
No, I am not a writer, plus this is the internet. Things don't always come out the way you intended, and it can be hard to tell if someone is writing with the attitude of "oh what a moron" or "I'm seriously trying to help". All I can say is, if I think someone is being a moron, it will either be VERY obvious, or I just won't reply at all. Note that me not replying doesn't mean your question is stupid, others may have already answered it, or it's not something I know much about. My #1 pet peeve is stupid people, but not knowing the answer to something and asking others does not mean you are stupid. On the contrary - it means you ware willing to learn. And those who are willing to learn instead of just expect spoon-fed answers jump to the top of my list every time.
--Randy
I got about half way tru ,and realize that I no longer had a clue what you where talking about.
You proved my point
BigDaddy richhotrain Henry, I can assure you, almost no thread goes unaswered. I didn't have 10 but I had 8.
richhotrain Henry, I can assure you, almost no thread goes unaswered.
I didn't have 10 but I had 8.
BigDaddy richhotrain Henry, I can assure you, almost no thread goes unaswered. I didn't have 10 but I had 8. The New Digitrax Cab thread sat unanswered for 2 weeks until I bumped it. Turns out enough people had an opinion to help the OP. Usually the threads that are never answered are the ones that are either just a statement, ones that ask about building a specific layout or asking about information or parts that no one has, like a MTH schematic.
The New Digitrax Cab thread sat unanswered for 2 weeks until I bumped it. Turns out enough people had an opinion to help the OP.
Usually the threads that are never answered are the ones that are either just a statement, ones that ask about building a specific layout or asking about information or parts that no one has, like a MTH schematic.
Yeah the OP asked if anyone had one. My stuff is still packed away, I haven't reached the point of connecting my existing stuff, let alone buying anything new. Plus I'm not even sure I am sticking with Digitrax at this point (I know, shocker!). My main reason was Loconet, but since I am building my own CMRI-ish control system, I don't need Loconet. Consisting and utility throttles with displays and encoders are now more important - except Digitrax had to go and change it up with the UT6. What I have now isn't even a consideration, I actually have very little - even my last layout still ran with the original Zephyr as command station. 12 locos was not a limit. Filling up my basement with 2 decks though - I need a bigger system.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
richhotrainHenry, I can assure you, almost no thread goes unaswered.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
SeeYou190 UNCLEBUTCH I see many newbe/wantabes ask for the correct time. The replys instruct him how to build a watch,where to buy the parts,what tools will be needed, along with the current stock market price quote on raw materials. 100% And then you have the replies that are just completely made up horse droppings that someone tries to correct, then you get a 20 reply non-productive-newbie-alienating expression of discourse. Newbie rule 1: Be helpful without thumping your chest about how knowledgeable you can sound. All the regulars here already know who knows what they are talking about. Newbie rule 2: Don't give an answer unless you know the answer. Always welcome the newcomer and encourage someone else to give the correct answer. -Kevin
UNCLEBUTCH I see many newbe/wantabes ask for the correct time. The replys instruct him how to build a watch,where to buy the parts,what tools will be needed, along with the current stock market price quote on raw materials.
100%
And then you have the replies that are just completely made up horse droppings that someone tries to correct, then you get a 20 reply non-productive-newbie-alienating expression of discourse.
Newbie rule 1: Be helpful without thumping your chest about how knowledgeable you can sound. All the regulars here already know who knows what they are talking about.
Newbie rule 2: Don't give an answer unless you know the answer. Always welcome the newcomer and encourage someone else to give the correct answer.
Mike
UNCLEBUTCHI see many newbe/wantabes ask for the correct time. The replys instruct him how to build a watch,where to buy the parts,what tools will be needed, along with the current stock market price quote on raw materials.
Just because you reply, don't assume you helped.
I see many newbe/wantabes ask for the correct time. The replys instruct him how to build a watch,where to buy the parts,what tools will be needed, along with the current stock market price quote on raw materials.
I have often wonder how many would be RMers just walk away thinking this hobby is just too complex.
Then there are IMO many posts that don't warrent a reply. Just throwing stuff at a wall to see what might stick
Overmod Now might be the time to mention I was 'first answer' on something like five of these and this might lead some folks to accuse me of being a know-it-all showoff answering everything. What I'm trying to do is 'prime the pump' for other posters (sometimes for corrections by other posters, a hazard of the practice) and to provide at least something for the person to go on. (Now, that said, I try hard to avoid spreading 'disinformation', at least knowingly, so if you see something 'off' it's no skin off my nose to learn correction.)
Now might be the time to mention I was 'first answer' on something like five of these and this might lead some folks to accuse me of being a know-it-all showoff answering everything. What I'm trying to do is 'prime the pump' for other posters (sometimes for corrections by other posters, a hazard of the practice) and to provide at least something for the person to go on. (Now, that said, I try hard to avoid spreading 'disinformation', at least knowingly, so if you see something 'off' it's no skin off my nose to learn correction.)
BigDaddy I look for unanswered posts, often these are moderated posts from newbies. There are 8 today, Lets help these guys out.
I look for unanswered posts, often these are moderated posts from newbies. There are 8 today,
Lets help these guys out.
OvermodNow might be the time to mention I was 'first answer' on something like five of these and this might lead some folks to accuse me of being a know-it-all showoff answering everything.
Not at all.
When I see unanswered posts, even in the DCC section, I will jump in with something.
When a newbie post gets approved by the moderators it does not go to the top. It shows up where it was in chronological order. Sometimes this places it "below the fold" on the page.
I jump in, bump it to the top, and hopefully someone with the answer will see it.
BigDaddyI look for unanswered posts, often these are moderated posts from newbies. There are 8 today, Lets help these guys out.
So don't be afraid to jump in a new post, even if (as a couple of us do) it's to explain moderation and the PM system and give them hope their answers will be forthcoming.
Newbie posts