Hey all --
Sometimes I'm almost embarassed to post a question as rookie-like as this but with y'all's indulgences, here goes.
I just acquired a pair of Precision Scale Reading tender trucks which I assume are brass castings (not sure)and before I try to assemble (and possibly ruin these relative expensive items) I thought I'd reach out to the collective wisdom and kindness of fellow forum members for advice.
Unlike other metal truck bolsters and sideframes I've encountered, these do not assemble by scerews and tapped holes. The bolster ends have a slot and sideframes have a round nub which is too large to fit the slot. It would appear the sideframe nub should insert into the bolster and be soldered together, but I'd need drill/ream/file the bolster hole to make that possible. Or am I missing something obvious?
Also, while there are tiny holes that appear to locate the axle bearing locations in the sideframes, they're just little dimples and in no way would take a needle-end wheelset axle. What tool is best to create the properly tapered bearing surface?
Finally, how do I ensure that everything is in gauge before soldering things together.
I've e-mailed the above questions to Precision Scale Co but no luck yet receiveing any info in return.
If somoen out there has experience with these issues I would greatly appreciate it!
Ed
Precision Scale brass trucks look very nice but I’ve had very bad experience with their Buckeye tender trucks. They need a lot of fiddling with just to assemble. Even with added weight my oil tenders derail at turnouts, not every turnout and not every time. When I first went the Precision Scale trucks it was to improve power pickup and they are great for power pickup and clear all my turnouts in the straight through position but really don’t like the diversion position.I’ve spent hours trying to remedy the problems with out any luck. Like I said they really look good but don’t track well at all.I’ve switched several tenders to Bowser Buckeye trucks and they run extremely nice and have great power pickup too.I can’t give the Precision Scale trucks a thumbs up for running but they look great.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Sorry I got wound up with my problems with PSC trucks and didn’t answer you questions.The bolster is meant to slide up and down in the side frame held in place by the springs. They do require a lot of tedious filing for them to move freely. The problem with the Buckeye trucks appear to be overly strong springs not letting the frames move. I tried some Kadee springs and they are too weak.I used a #60 drill bit to deepen the side frame to axle hole enough for the axles to turn freely.Even with the bad experience I still bought more of the trucks and tried to get them to track the divergence, no luck what so ever.My problem might be because of the two piece side frames on the Buckeye trucks.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Hi Mel --
Thanks for taking time to reply with your experience. This particular set of tender trucks are what some have called "Reading" trucks. The prototype was sprung via a leaf spring so I don't think it's quite analagous to the units you've described. So-called "Reading" trucks are what were delivered on the original Mantua Goat Camelback 0-4-0 switcher and I've even considered keeping an eye out for one of those as a basket case to just to harvest the tender trucks, although obviously the price to value ratio would really need to be almost unrealistically favorable for that to make sense.
Bowser sold Reading trucks for years but they are no longer available from Bowser and they even told me the tooling no longer exists for them, so it's hunting constantly on eBay hoping a set or two turns up.
Any way, that still leaves me with the engineering challenge of making my PSC trucks workable. I can see what you're saying about the sdeframe pin sliding up and down in the bolster slot, but there's nothing to hold the sides to the bolster. That's why I was asking about soldering together.
Given that the bolster slot is round at the top and roughly the same radius as the sideframe nub/pin, I suppose that after careful filing I could align one side, try to true it up and solder together, then insert a wheelset as a check and do the other side.
So you think just a #60 drill does the trick and it doesn't need to be a conical profile to match the axle needle ends?
Holy cow, if I'd known....
Thanks,Ed
In thinking back I kinda remember the PSC axles being blunt end, I haven’t had them apart in a long time. That might be the reason they derail.My Arthritis is getting after it or I’d take one apart and look to make sure.Bowser discontinued the Buckeye (35107) trucks also but I was lucky enough to equip all my oil tenders except two, I have 18 oil tenders. I remember going through a dozen PSC trucks swapping parts around until I came up with four that have worked pretty good, I don’t run the tenders with the PSC trucks very often. I have two tenders (Bowser trucks) with sound decoders that I swap around to my Cab Forwards and AC-9s when operating on DCC. I have run the tenders with the PSC trucks a dozen times or so and they haven’t derailed very often. They don’t like backing up through my #4 Atlas turnouts, the Bowser’s never derail. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
For some reason I recall that these were filed to slide in the bolster and the nub was drilled and tapped for a screw. I think you could use shims to adjust how this fit, and it would make ride height adjustment a bit easier in principle than shims between tender and bolster.
I am still looking for pictures, but I surmise these are one-piece heavy cast sideframes with the leaf springs and other detail simulated, not the type with the little phosphor-bronze spring leaves.
Those dimples are as indicated drilling guides for actual axle holes. You could drill these holes 'oversize' and make conical Delrin or other suitable material inserts -- we've had discussions on how conical axle ends 'work' and what the depth in the side frame vs. shimming to the bolster and behind the inserts would be to get the best 'bearing action' after assembly. I suspect you might 'get away' with drilling and reaming a correct conical bearing directly in the side frame but this is not an ideal model journal material and your precision might have to be really good, drill press or better quality with jigs or clamps to hold the piece carefully. (On the other hand this might be another ten-dollar solution if you don't need easy rolling and long life...)
cnjman721Unlike other metal truck bolsters and sideframes I've encountered, these do not assemble by scerews and tapped holes. The bolster ends have a slot and sideframes have a round nub which is too large to fit the slot. It would appear the sideframe nub should insert into the bolster and be soldered together, but I'd need drill/ream/file the bolster hole to make that possible. Or am I missing something obvious?
Like Mel, I did not have a positive experience getting my Precision Scale trucks to work properly. It has been a while back, so I cannot say for certain what style they were, but it did require a lot of filing and fiddling to get them to track properly (well, at least OK).
I have used alternatives since then.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Now I'm beginning to wish I was never seduced by the good looks and prototype appearance of these PSC trucks!
Hard to imagine having to either drill & tap the nub OR soldering it to the sideframe, but obviously there'd have to be some way to fix the sf to the bolster.
On top of that, where in Hades would one find conical Delrin inserts?!
Seems like I should put more effort into finding a set of the Bowser Reading trucks somewhere than trying to cobble the PSC together!
Thanks guys
The only Bowser trucks I have experience with are the Buckeye. The Buckeye look very nice and never derail! No fiddling around to get them to work just a bit of flashing to remove, drop the wheels in and two screws and they are ready to go. They have extremely good power pickup. I was lucky to fine enough to equip all my Rivarossi oil tenders and even have a spare pair.I have two oil tenders set up with sound decoders and swap them around to my Cab Forwards and kitbashed AC-9s. This is what the Bowser trucks look like.The bottom of the tender is covered with black nylon to prevent the Neodymium magnet speakers from picking up tiny metal particles from the track.I used a piece of fiberglass window screen to prevent large chunks of metal from getting past the nylon.The Bowser Buckeye trucks have performed flawlessly for many years and will still be running great when I’m pushing up grass. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
cnjman721On top of that, where in Hades would one find conical Delrin inserts?!
Pointed axle end wants to run about .003" from the apex of this cone, NOT jammed up into it like a conical watch bearing. The cone on the axle is a degree or so more 'pointy'than the tuned hole, so the bearing area is on the upper flank of the extreme point but very small, and the axle will self-center as it runs.
I've assembled several types of Tichy trucks and they do have a Nylon axle end insert. You can use Overmod's method or dip into your wallet and get these for about 8¢ each. Of course you won't be able to point to them and say "I made these all by myself".
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/trucks/p/3059-bearings/Default.aspx
Good Luck, Ed
If you insolate the axles with Nylon axle inserts you will need wipers for power pickup.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
gmpullman cnjman721 On top of that, where in Hades would one find conical Delrin inserts?! I've assembled several types of Tichy trucks and they do have a Nylon axle end insert. You can use Overmod's method or dip into your wallet and get these for about 8¢ each. Of course you won't be able to point to them and say "I made these all by myself". https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/trucks/p/3059-bearings/Default.aspx Good Luck, Ed
cnjman721 On top of that, where in Hades would one find conical Delrin inserts?!
Wow! Ask and ye shall receive!
Thanks!
I am smiling as I read through this entire thread, not because I am amused at the OP's predicament, but because of the extraordinary effort that must sometimes be endured by us modelers.
My goodness.
Rich
Alton Junction
At least he only has to do it twice!
The OP was evidently not familiar with older 'craftsman-style' detail, and had no instructions to follow. We discussed some of the possibilities, including how he might build a pair of square, reasonably adjustable-height trucks that would be extremely free-rolling. As I understand it the OP, who was in some danger of giving this project up, now has a reasonably detailed understanding of how to actually achieve it -- I'm sure if he has further concerns or gets into unexpected trouble 'building' we'll help him more at that time, or any other time.
This leaves open the question of why Mel's prototype-sprung Buckeyes keep derailing... something I'm still interested in getting to the bottom of to increase the store of wisdom concerning them.
Overmod At least he only has to do it twice! The OP was evidently not familiar with older 'craftsman-style' detail, and had no instructions to follow. We discussed some of the possibilities, including how he might build a pair of square, reasonably adjustable-height trucks that would be extremely free-rolling. As I understand it the OP, who was in some danger of giving this project up, now has a reasonably detailed understanding of how to actually achieve it -- I'm sure if he has further concerns or gets into unexpected trouble 'building' we'll help him more at that time, or any other time. This leaves open the question of why Mel's prototype-sprung Buckeyes keep derailing... something I'm still interested in getting to the bottom of to increase the store of wisdom concerning them.
I’d be game for that but I sold all of them on eBay. Maybe the OP can work with you.I really tried everything I could come up with. The thing that worked the best was using the Kadee coupler springs. They wouldn’t derail but wouldn’t stay together either. I think a slightly weaker spring than supplied would have worked OK. When I would flex the sides they were very tight with the Precision Scale springs and way too loose with the Kadee springs. They were very nice looking trucks but had to go. The Bowser trucks look very good and never derail. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I've used PSC trucks a few times. Most of them are made using very old molds from other long gone manufacturers (some dating back to the 40's - the trolley trucks still have the Lindsay name on them!), and some of the areas such as screw holes, axle holes and such have degraded on the molds. This can be corrected with drilling and careful filing, but it can be quite a job getting them to fit together. The end results have been good for me so far. On the really bad ones, they've actually provided ball-bearing wheelsets to compensate for the axles being unable to turn freely.
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This may be a day late and a dollar short, but PSC appears to have taken mercy on those folk who have struggled with their 6 wheel Buckeye trucks by offering them ASSEMBLED ! https://www.trainz.com/products/precision-scale-company-33971-ho-buckeye-trucks-6-wheel-assembly-33
Rapido is also an option Rapido # 102111 Buckeye Trucks with Electrical Pickup HO Scale 679164057887 | eBay
American Scale Models - A bunch of offerings, page down Steam Loco & Tender (americanscalemodels.com)
Now, does anybody have a pair of Bowser 8 wheel trucks that need to find a good home? I can't find any online and the idea of buying a set of PSC side frames and building my own trucks fills me with horror.
BEAUSABRE This may be a day late and a dollar short, but PSC appears to have taken mercy on those folk who have struggled with their 6 wheel Buckeye trucks by offering them ASSEMBLED ! https://www.trainz.com/products/precision-scale-company-33971-ho-buckeye-trucks-6-wheel-assembly-33