Well I thought I would save some money and buy the walthers main line gp unit. I ordered the detail kit made for it. Probably wont make that mistake again. The last time I had this much trouble was when I tried to put shoelaces on ho peoples feet. I opened the package and I was disapointed to see no mu hoses. upon looking further I saw other items that were to be installed so small I had to get the magnifier out. I finally got the grab irons out of the package (caution dont just pour them out on your table,they will go everywhere including where little dust bunnies live) I finally got one in my tweesers by putting masking tape on the ends of the tweesers,after it fell on the workbench several times I tried to put it into the tiny hole I had drilled for it on the front of the engines by the way the hole was as big as an n scale mouse hole. After about an hour I got a few holes drilled and I put the grab iron in the hole, eureka only 12 more to go. Looked into the other parts bag and it had what I thought was glitter but turned out to be lift rings for the top of the engine. How can you put a drop of glue on a piece the size of glitter.? Now I realize im a dinasaur but even teeny boppers would freak out at trying to install this kit,I think. Next time I will bite the bullit and either buy the engines with these details and thats hard to do because I am on a fixed income and retired or pretend the models have them and let it go. Most of my engines have these details because they are higher end engines and I got use to seeing the details but I can adjust.
(deleted) - reply evidently has no value to OP.
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I hold the lift ring in a pair of tweezer-nose pliers and dip the pin end in a small pool of super glue.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Well, either you like building models, or you don't.
You want to develop those skills or you don't.
Once upon a time there was no high end, high quality, high detail RTR in this hobby, so such skills were essential for better modeling.
Don't take this wrong, I don't have anything against high end RTR, I have my share.
But I have been at this since 1968, and I have installed thousands of grab irons.
It is was it is......
Sheldon
I'm gonna guess by your response that you haven't done much model building - at least recently. With the right tools detailing can be an enjoyable experience. Without them - you'll be continually frustrated.
It depends if purchasing the right tools is in your budget or not. Sounds like you have a few - e.g. tweezers. These two tools are essential - i.e. if you don't have them already:
Along with three different types of tweezers - needle-nose, broad-nose, and locking - I use these the most when working on my locomotives, rolling stock, or assembling kits.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageA good adjustable task light - 75W or 100W Optivisor - A magnifier that fits on your head. They come in various magnifications.
I second that, but the higher the maginification, the closer it has to be to your face. At some point that will bother your neck. I think I have a 1.5 and 2.
Get a good Starrett pin vice, whose collet actually holds the drill bit tight
Forget about #80 drill bits, it's too hard.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I think mine is 2.5X, Henry, and has worked well for me. I don't think I'd want it much higher than that for the reason you gave.
And I have NEVER questioned whether purchasing my Starrett pin vises was a good investment. Hands-down they beat the inexpensive (cheap) collet pin vise I attempted to use years ago in holding power.
Tom I moved a couple months ago and I haven't found my Optivior yet, it could be a 2.5. I bought a set of 3 or 4 lenses off ebay or Amazon. The higher power were of no use.
There are Starrett's with a big fat PVC handle. You don't want those. The slimmer metal handle 162 models that come in A, B, C, D.
I haven't seen them either, since the move, so I don't want to tell the OP, which to get. He can figure it out by looking up their range and the diameter of drills he will use most. I only have 2 of the 4.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWell, either you like building models, or you don't. You want to develop those skills or you don't.
Exactly. Kato HO locos used to come with detail parts seperate. delrin plastic, holes were predrilled into the shell, you just have to make them fit.
Either you like detailing and want to develop the skills, or you don't.
Scale Trains locos, the operator series, you can buy the parts to make it a rivet counter loco for about $35. The difference in purchasing an operator vs. the rivet counter is about $ 60 or $70. Don't quote me on that.
Your choice.
I love detailing. I do it to any loco I "up-grade" with DCC and lights, and detail parts.
Mike.
My You Tube
BigDaddyI only have 2 of the 4.
Same here. I have the 162 A & B, which are great for drill bits up to 1/16" OD. The krurled handle and 4-jawed collet make tightening onto those tiny bits a sure thing. Worth every penny.
mbinsewi ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well, either you like building models, or you don't. You want to develop those skills or you don't. Exactly. Kato HO locos used to come with detail parts seperate. delrin plastic, holes were predrilled into the shell, you just have to make them fit. Either you like detailing and want to develop the skills, or you don't. Scale Trains locos, the operator series, you can buy the parts to make it a rivet counter loco for about $35. The difference in purchasing an operator vs. the rivet counter is about $ 60 or $70. Don't quote me on that. Your choice. I love detailing. I do it to any loco I "up-grade" with DCC and lights, and detail parts. Mike.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well, either you like building models, or you don't. You want to develop those skills or you don't.
I dont mind the detail work, but I do have a limited budget. To get the most out of my models, I always add the details. Some people complain how manufacturers sometimes have extra parts in a separate baggie, which makes them have to do more work, but personally I enjoy the option of adding additional detail to my models.
I got some MU hoses to add to a couple of GP9s I have, and discovered they were actually molded on as part of the pilot for the P2K locos. I pried them with a sharp knife at the plug ends, pulled them out just a bit and painted the plugs with a metallic paint.
The ones I had bought for a detail job that wasn't necessary ended up on some old Athearn blue-box models. Never waste a detail part.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Tweezers can be important. Consider getting a couple of good pairs of watchmaker's hairspring tweezers, one in steel and one in brass, and be prepared to lightly stone them periodically to keep the tips sharp and true, and the mating faces at the points square and in good contact. There are places where fine tweezers with plastic tips are useful, too.
Even regular tweezers benefit from 'tuning up' the tips periodically, just as your fine screwdrivers do.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well, either you like building models, or you don't. You want to develop those skills or you don't. You or forgetting two things,1. fingers are not as nimble as they were back in the day and 2. I changed to ho from n because of my eyesight not as good as it once was. This does not apply to everyone! Once upon a time there was no high end, high quality, high detail RTR in this hobby, so such skills were essential for better modeling. Don't take this wrong, I don't have anything against high end RTR, I have my share. But I have been at this since 1968, and I have installed thousands of grab irons. It is was it is...... Sheldon
You want to develop those skills or you don't. You or forgetting two things,1. fingers are not as nimble as they were back in the day and 2. I changed to ho from n because of my eyesight not as good as it once was. This does not apply to everyone!
tstage I'm gonna guess by your response that you haven't done much model building - at least recently. With the right tools detailing can be an enjoyable experience. Without them - you'll be continually frustrated. I have all of the above and more,I just have large fingers and poor eyesight. You have been blessed if you dont have these problems. It depends if purchasing the right tools is in your budget or not. Sounds like you have a few - e.g. tweezers. These two tools are essential - i.e. if you don't have them already: A good adjustable task light - 75W or 100W Optivisor - A magnifier that fits on your head. They come in various magnifications. Along with three different types of tweezers - needle-nose, broad-nose, and locking - I use these the most when working on my locomotives, rolling stock, or assembling kits. Tom
I'm gonna guess by your response that you haven't done much model building - at least recently. With the right tools detailing can be an enjoyable experience. Without them - you'll be continually frustrated. I have all of the above and more,I just have large fingers and poor eyesight. You have been blessed if you dont have these problems.
Cat got your tongue???
He quoted by no reply?
The optivisor really made a difference me.
Tom,If you count modeling a marx steamer 1946,If you dont count that 1968,I started in n scale and went to ho recently although I had both for a long time. I have good lighting and special glasses for seeing up close & all the right tools Im just doing the best I can.
Tstage,evidently you are not married or else you would know I have honeydoos & other chores around my house. When I have a few minutes I get back to the computer. A cat or no other kind of animal has got my tongue by the way!
the old train manTstage,evidently you are not married or else you would know I have honeydoos & other chores around my house. When I have a few minutes I get back to the computer. A cat or no other kind of animal has got my tongue by the way!
Sorry about that, OTM. Your response was so buried inside each of my and Sheldon's quotes that it wasn't obvious you added anything; hence my tongue 'n cheek response. I had to carefully read through my quote to see where you added your text.
For clarity, it works best if you type after the 2nd bracketed quote, or [/quote]. Then your text is separate from the quote.
You're getting some flack here, and I'll suggest to you that's because your original post comes off as a bit angry.
But I get your frustration, and I sympathise with you. I'm 67, and have my share of the normal aging issues - eyesight, dexterity, flexibility when working underneath the layout, balance when on a stool above it, and yes, patience when dealing with all of the above. Most things are just tougher with age. Catarat surgery was a blessing, most other issues I just have to learn how to live with.
I think your last sentence in the original post says a lot - "I can adjust". We all have to do that, the best we can, and the best we can afford. I'm not the best modeler I know, but I'm the best I can be. And I'm OK with that. So adjust, and have fun again!
Ed
A few simple details can elevate a toy-like model to a pretty-good representation of the real thing...
LifeLike (Proto-no-thousand) reefer, with its original too-heavy paint removed, body-mounted Kadees, along with some metal grabirons and sill steps to turn it into at least a better-looking car than it was originally...
...and later upgrades to several similar cars, which mainly involved replacing the roofs with scratchbuilt ones, as ice-service reefers don't require end ice bunkers...
A Tyco r-t-r car, with the too-heavy factory paint stripped off, body-mounted couplers, metal sill steps and a few metal grabirons...
...although that one (and three similar cars) were re-done rather more extensively later...
This ConCor gondola was a one-dollar-find off the "used" table at a former hobbyshop. I modified the sidesills to better-match a Pennsylvania RR prototype, then added body-mounted Kadees, a couple of grabirons and suitable paint and lettering....
The point I'm trying to illustrate is that if you wish to add details to a model, start small and work your way up, as the more simple stuff will prepare you for increasingly harder tasks. Over time and with practice, your skills will not only continue to improve, but the improvement will also give you confidence to try more complex projects, and, perhaps, even scratchbuilding.The tools I use most frequently for this kind of work are a pin vise (for small drill bits) an X-acto knife, and a pair of small-nosed smooth-jawed pliers.
Wayne
SeeYou190 I hold the lift ring in a pair of tweezer-nose pliers and dip the pin end in a small pool of super glue. -Kevin
I bought a set of locking tweezers from Micro-Mark.
Slide-lock tweezers
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I have several pairs of Tweezer-Nose pliers.
I recently bought a handful of special pliers from a German manufacturer on Amazon. They seem amazing, but I have not used them yet. All my tools are packed away right now.
This pair from Snap-On are an all-time favorite of mine. They give me excellent control over the small parts.
The tips on these pliers are smaller than the tweezers on the left.
I remember feeling the same way as the OP when I first started detailing locos and rolling stock. Now it is something I quite enjoy. Here is what I find helps:
Work with quality tools, cheap tools add to the frustration.
Focus on one item, such as grab handles, then lift rings, etc.
You do not have to install every single detail.
Lighting and magnification are a must.
Be glad you are not making the lift rings and grab handles LOL.
Enjoy it.
basementdweller...Be glad you are not making the lift rings and grab handles LOL.
Grabirons, lift rings, and even scratchbuilt ladders aren't really all that difficult once you get a little experience...
I'm of the opinion that if you want something but can't buy it, then you should be able to build it. That, of course, does have limits.
doctorwayne I'm of the opinion that if you want something but can't buy it, then you should be able to build it. That, of course, does have limits. Wayne
Trainman 440, Easier said than done.
the old train manThe last time I had this much trouble was when I tried to put shoelaces on ho peoples feet.
Hah!!! I have been similarly frustrated by Walthers detail kits. Especially when (on passenger cars) the #6000 drill bit falls off the dimple and I drill a hole in the wrong place. This is when I remind myself why I joined a club with a 70x72' layout... beause from 30 feet away you can't see the grab irons. You can barely see the **** locomotives!
Aaron
Having highly detailed locomotives or rolling stock is not high on my modelling list
I enjoy the operating & running side of the hobby. The only details I require are wheels that roll & couplers that work
I just recently put the front & rear hand rails on 3 of my Atlas locomotives that I have had & have been running for maybe 3 years now
and god only knows how many of my cars are missing stirrup steps