I think I've got it--4x8 layout--Comments Please-- Suggested Modifications added below

[SpaceMouse]

You guys are probably going to shoot this down too, but each time you do my layout gets better so fire away.



Color Code:

Blue: 0 elevation
Brown: Elevated
Green: Passenger/ Freight Station Depending on the operation--until I get DCC, it will be passenger train parking.

Yard Explanation: Train enters yard and heads toward Red area. Locomotive disconnects from train and enters red area. Yard goat breaks down train and classifies cars. Goat rebuilds cars. Train backs out.

Problem: No real good place to store the caboose while breaking up and building trains.

Features: Yard can be isolated from rest of track so yard operations can occur while passenger trains circles track.

[Anonymous]

Too much track.

Your Yard leads will interfere with any long wheel base freight/passenger equuipment taht overhangs on a 18" radius curve. Better to have less track and have it make more sense than to cram as much as you can into a 4X8. Maybe a 4X8 with a spur 2X8 long?

Try a double track main loop connected by a double crossover on one side or two curved turnouts on the loops sides and a 3 bay engine stall ( turntable on a 4X8 takes up too much real estate) for engine storage on one side of the loop. On the other side put in a smal 2 or three lead yard/industry. or make a passenger terminal on one side.

Kinda like these:
http://www.naisp.net/users/mfischer/Trkplans/2x40002.gif

http://www.resteddoginn.ca/nsquest/e/layout.php

Try this website for more ideas....
http://www.naisp.net/users/mfischer/m_train2.htm

it's great to run as many trains as you can, but if you have DCC you can run more trains on less track....I think that was one of the major reasons why us old timers complained and DCC was invented!

[SpaceMouse]

Sorry everyone. I should have restated the basic goals of the layout.

The main purpose of the layout is giving my autistic son a place to run his Hogwart's special while I work on building a larger basement track. My son wants bridges and tunnels and he will stay on the outsde loop all day long.

The two kids' two passenger trains will both be less than 30" with small steam locomotives. The green areas will be where kids park their trains.

The freight train will will also be a small steamer and the cars will all be 30-40 1800's. The train size will be limited to the size of the yard. (By the way, the yard will be my playpen.

There is a lot of track for those reasons. The track is EZ track which is a little more compact in terms of the turnouts used than the Atlas track in program, so it will not reach so close to the turns.

When I install the DCC on the larger track, I will run a line to the smaller track and it will become DCC at that time.


Minuteman,

That doesn't mean I'm not going to study those tracks.

[Jetrock]

Personally I'd simplify the yard a bit-- instead of having those three little spurs off to the side, just include one long track (it's better to have a few long straight tracks than more short stubby tracks.) I assume the yard goat will be stationed just below where the road engine will park--you could, theoretically, tuck the caboose there while the switcher is switching, and then replace it at the end of the train when switching is done.

The fact that your yard lead is inside a tunnel is kind of weird but I think that it will be endurable.

I notice there are two other spurs--for industries, I presume?

Also, there's still that crossover under the mountain. I'd suggest getting rid of it entirely and making do with the single crossover that isn't covered by mountain, and replacing the other crossover with a "double crossover." That will save you some space as well as some headaches.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

Personally I'd simplify the yard a bit-- instead of having those three little spurs off to the side, just include one long track (it's better to have a few long straight tracks than more short stubby tracks.) I assume the yard goat will be stationed just below where the road engine will park--you could, theoretically, tuck the caboose there while the switcher is switching, and then replace it at the end of the train when switching is done.

I was picturing a smaller operation. The yard I am seeing exists entirely within the loop and isolated into its own cab (is that the right term) so that yard operations can go on while the kids play on the loops. The locomotive pulls into the red, and disconnects. The goat would be in the parrallel area just to the right of the engine--and that line would be the yard lead. It breaks down the train and stores the boxcars, etc. in the three small tracks that you wanted me to eliminate.

QUOTE: The fact that your yard lead is inside a tunnel is kind of weird but I think that it will be endurable.

I notice there are two other spurs--for industries, I presume?

Multi-purpose. Passenger station on one side; freight office on the other; place to park trains when one or the other kids is driving.

QUOTE: Also, there's still that crossover under the mountain. I'd suggest getting rid of it entirely and making do with the single crossover that isn't covered by mountain, and replacing the other crossover with a "double crossover." That will save you some space as well as some headaches.

I planned to bend the mountain around it. But I get your point.

I just noticed that I could shift the whole interchange to the right 9" and stcik with the plan I have (it is also the pieces I have.)

PS on the bigger layout I have made about a 4x8 area just for the Yard and Turntable. [:)]

[SpaceMouse]

Minuteman,

Those 2x4 Layouts are pretty interesting. I bookmarked that page, although I spent about 20 minutes of work time on them already. [C):-)]

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
[I was picturing a smaller operation. The yard I am seeing exists entirely within the loop and isolated into its own cab (is that the right term) so that yard operations can go on while the kids play on the loops. The locomotive pulls into the red, and disconnects. The goat would be in the parrallel area just to the right of the engine--and that line would be the yard lead. It breaks down the train and stores the boxcars, etc. in the three small tracks that you wanted me to eliminate.

The yard lead cannot be on the line next to where the freight engine parks. A yard lead must be in front of the the yard throat, in order to allow the switcher to move the string of cars back and forth into the various tracks of the yard--in other words, it would have to pull out onto the loop in order to move the cars forward enough to put cars into the storage tracks. Having a yard lead on the other end is physically impossible, because the switcher would be on the wrong end of the train!

Replacing those three small tracks with one large track would have several advantages:

You could use both of the resulting two tracks for storage.
You would need two fewer switches.
Your actual yard capacity would increase by two or three cars.
Switching would be simpler.

I can't see a way around using the inner loop for a yard lead, though. You just don't have enough room. Have you considered making the double loop skinnier and putting the yard on the OUTSIDE of the layout, rather than the inside?

The term you are looking for is "block." A "cab" refers to the controller, a "block" refers to a section of track. In multiple-cab control, each block (a section of track--can be pretty much any size) can be switched back and forth between available cabs (in your case, three.) In order to move from one block to another (say, from the double loop to the single loop, or from the single loop to the yard) using DC cab control, both blocks would have to be under control of the same cab.

[SpaceMouse]

Jetrock,

I am working this yard out of pure ignorance I know. I just had a "duh" moment. In my mind I pictured the goat running to the far side of the train, pulling off one car at at time and putting them in the appropriate slot in the three areas. Obviously, in real life the goat would seperate the cars in bunches and there is not room without using the inner loop. I had never intended pulling more that 4-5 cars on this layout.

Okay, I just went back to the "Ten Commandments of Yard Design" and I see that I'm not labeling my tracks correctly.

The one with the Red end is the yard lead. This is where I take apart and build the trains. I was thinking it was the A/D. My plan only works for a yard of 10-12 cars that are pulled apart one car at a time. As limited in scope as it is, is my thinking wrong here?

Obviously your plan shuts down the inner ring during operations.

With EZ trac, I can't see how it would be possible to move things outside the rings. I can see a way to gain about 9 inches , but that would mean tressels running over the lower track and the two loops sharing a common track. I could get two long legs in, but I would foul the main completely and no one could run during switching.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I realize this is more of a kids toy type layout, but there are a couple things you could do to maximize the operation if you wanted to. Instead of that little oval on the upper level, why not turn it into a passing siding, and put your passenger station up there.

Now you can lengthen both of the lower loops slightly, giving you more room for your yard to come off the main.

You have 2 crossovers between the inner and outer loops. If you could shorten up the sections of track between the loops you would gain more space in the center.

The runaround in the yard is too short to be of much use. Why not have a passing siding off the inner loop, and have your yard tracks come off that.

[Big_Boy_4005]

This is the tweaking that I had in mind. A picture is worth a thousand words. Click on it to enlarge.

[Anonymous]

I looks like there is alot of track...a little to much, I would say, but I do see your reasons. Great layout plan!

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

This is the tweaking that I had in mind. A picture is worth a thousand words. Click on it to enlarge.

It took a while to see it but your idea is better--although you'll have to back out on to the main to move cars. It also makes it so I can wire the yard as a blood and work the yard while one of the kids circles Hogwarts.

It took a while to see it because on the surface, it seems like less number of pieces of track. But some of the pieces of track I had a purpose and I need to put them back. (and clutter up your lovely drawing.)

I'm going to do two things to the yard. I'm going to extend your turnout (like the red area in my drawing.)

I'm going to put a 4th leg coming off the longest leg to the left. This will be for the caboose, or if my daughter or son want to run freight, I'll have a spot for thier passenger cars. I know this reduces the vallue of that long leg.

I can make the modifications to the upper level because the kids want tunnels and more importantly, Hogwarts goes there. I will add a spur that services Hogwarts passenger and freight needs and gives my son a place top park. His parking place was eliminated by the yard modifications.

I'll make these changes when I get home and post them for you to shoot them full of holes.

[mcouvillion]

SpaceMouse,

Remember that on the drawings, the diverging route from the turnout is at a fairly sharp angle. This will be a #4, so you'll have to run short stuff. Before you get too far along, try laying actual track on the floor (1' square tiles are great for more or less accurate measurements) and see if the whole layout will "fit". You don't have to connect it all up, but just get an idea of what it will look like. I'm assuming you'll be using snap track for most of the layout. You can make adjustments there before putting stuff down on the plywood.

Mark C.

[SpaceMouse]

Here is the new layout:



As was pointed out, the Atlas track shown on my pic does not match up well with my the EZ track reailty. The EZ track reaily looks closer to the suggested changes.

I'm working on learning XTrkCAD,

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
I am working this yard out of pure ignorance I know. I just had a "duh" moment. In my mind I pictured the goat running to the far side of the train, pulling off one car at at time and putting them in the appropriate slot in the three areas. Obviously, in real life the goat would seperate the cars in bunches and there is not room without using the inner loop. I had never intended pulling more that 4-5 cars on this layout.

Okay, I just went back to the "Ten Commandments of Yard Design" and I see that I'm not labeling my tracks correctly.

The one with the Red end is the yard lead. This is where I take apart and build the trains. I was thinking it was the A/D. My plan only works for a yard of 10-12 cars that are pulled apart one car at a time. As limited in scope as it is, is my thinking wrong here?

The "red end" CAN'T be your yard lead. Wherever trains go when you are pulling them out of the "body tracks" of the yard, THAT is your yard lead. That's the whole point of a yard lead--to "lead" cars in and out of the body tracks.

The red piece of track is on entirely the wrong side of the yard to be a yard lead. If the switcher tries to switch cars from that red piece of track, not only would it have to back the entire train onto the loop to get in position, once it pulled into the body tracks it would be ON THE WRONG END OF THE CAR.

If you mean that the yard switcher sits on the red piece of track and the freight engine pulls up onto the yard throat (the one with the three body tracks sitting off of it), then the yard switcher would have to use the passing track to get around the train--in the process entering the switch to the loop anyhow. In order to switch cars onto the first body track, you'll still need to enter the switch to the loop if the length of the car and switcher combined are longer than the length of that one switch on the passing track--and my guess is that even a single 30' boxcar and an 0-4-0 switcher will just barely fit. If you try to put passenger cars on that track, even the short Overtons, you'll end up fouling the main loop.

To reiterate: Whatever piece of track is in front of the body tracks, THAT IS THE YARD LEAD. It doesn't matter if you decide that a piece of track on the other side of the yard is the "yard lead", because that is not where cars will go when being moved onto the body tracks.

Save yourself a *LOT* of trouble, SpaceMouse--for now, set up a three-track yard so you can just "park" your trains on the storage tracks, instead of worrying about trying to switch them in a too-small area. Big_Boy_4005's plan is a really good idea: three big tracks to park your trains, a runaround track if you really need to switch, and that's it...

[SpaceMouse]

Jetrock,

I think your right. Designing a yard without ever having seen one work seems to be an exercise in futility.

[Jetrock]

I assume the club you joined has a yard--take a look at their yard and watch it in operation if you can't get a look at the prototype.

Meanwhile, your next version is getting closer--I'd suggest reducing the number of tracks in the main ladder from five to three. Yard tracks that only hold one car really don't serve much purpose.

When one starts designing track plans the natural tendency is to try to fill a 4x8 sheet with as much track as possible--but over time one learns to simplify.